The free will systems

Sethproton

Well-known member
the problem is that "Believing"has no substance, and is evidence of NOTHING except how you feel at the time.
Mark 11:22-24 describes FAITH as "Heart Belief - NOTHING DOUBTING". "Head Belief" (mental assent) is as unstable as silly putty.
Believing has no substance? No idea what you mean by that?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
And if the Bible is true and man is really actually dead( no life , stimuli ) in sin then regeneration is a necessity which is exactly what scripture teaches us in John 3, Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2. The dead cannot place faith in God, it’s an impossibility .

It’s the equivalent of asking Lazarus to come out of the grave without Jesus giving him life. Impossible
Lazarus is a type of new life. He was regenerated back into his old body, he did NOT get a new body.
So his regeneration is not the same as ours will be. But he is a type of the resurrection of the righteous dead.
 

Kampioen

Active member
Here you can see for yourself the concepts of semi-Deistic Dualism on perfect display, in conversation, which is necessary for the idea of freewill to exist!

The problem is that semi-Deistic Dualism is a heresy with zero foundational support from scripture, therefore the concept of “freewill” is built from a foundation of heresy not afforded by scripture.

God created libertarian choice for us from nothing. So no Dualism. And God is Himself libertarian and exists for no reason. So no Dualism. Otherwise He had no choice but to predetermine us, making God pantheistic as you do.

In fact the Bible teaches against these very concepts…

Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”

Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

These are true. So no Dualism.

Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being”

This is true too but only determines the path for us, not that we can't libertarianly have our own ideas. I addressed this in the part of my post you cut out.

But I see you cut out and didn't address the refutation of unconditional predetermination in Romans 9 and Isaiah 10 and instead turned to a rabbit trail on Dualism. But as you see your view is pantheism.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Why are you dodging an answer and trying to make it my responsibility


Why did God harden men who according to you were born unable to believe or even understand spiritual truth and require regeneration and special personal revelation from the Spirit to believe
To all Lurkers.

After Adam sinned against God, He cursed both the earth and man. Man died spiritually that day. The way to the tree of life is hidden to the man in the flesh. The flesh-man has been hardened by God. He is both deaf and blind to the truth that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.
Through the power of the Holy Spirit, God reveals Jesus Christ as Lord and savior to the elect. He makes them spiritually alive through new birth.

The false teacher fltom, want's to bring a message that as per Satan, man will surely not die spiritually but will retain the ability to approach the Tree of Life through their flesh (Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior). Through this fleshy ability tman can now assess weather or not they want to eat of the fruit.

He tries to prove this by saying that God selectively hardens the hearts and blinds and deafens people with the ability to come in the flesh. This is some sort of backwards election that he teaches. He is saying that God is preventing people who want to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, (non elect) and allowing others to believe it, in the flesh (elect)

This is how this false teacher perverts the Word of God, and listens to the voice of Satan telling him:
4 But the serpent said to the woman, You will not surely die. ...she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
What you term "self generate faith" is what God calls "entrusting yourself to Him"
Nope.

That is self generating. It belongs to you. No gift at all.

You make it up. It's all in your mind. Such a faith is in self and not in God and is utterly useless.

BTW, your friend is denying your friendship. You should try harder to woo him.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Then explain why God reckons faith as righteouness if faith is in itsself a righteous act.
I do not believe I have seen a Calvinistic explanation of this truth.
Lurkers:
Notice that this poster does not even understand that his righteousness is like a filthy rag to God.
He is trying to tell you that your faith is the righteousness that saves you.

Jesus Christ and His imputed righteousness is skipped over. It is therefore faith in Christ as Lord and Savior that imputes the righteousness of Christ.

His truth is that his faith is righteousness and not Jesus Christ, and says a Calvinist must explain this thing that he holds as a truth.
Why should a Calvinist try and explain some false teaching they do not hold to? Because the poster has no integrity.

My faith is in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. His righteousness is imputed to me because of the gift of faith received.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
That is good that he is causing you to go to scripture. Excellent work on his part
from men of perverted speech,
13 who forsake the paths of uprightness
to walk in the ways of darkness,
14 who rejoice in doing evil
and delight in the perverseness of evil,
15 men whose paths are crooked,
and who are devious in their ways.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
But your universal predetermination means all merit is God, not man. Your use of Scripture implies not merit but God's indiscriminate pleasure.

Romans 9 does not speak against libertarianism but against fighting God's predeterminative intervention. People try to buck against their lot in God's history. God intervenes in history to cause it to go His way but not universally to the extent there is no libertarian will, especially concerning salvation.
All merit is God and not man? What does that even mean?
What does man merit?

Do you even understand that God receiving glory is His good pleasure?

Not sure what you are on about. You use a strange English, with words that make no sense.

You should try and stick to scripture. Above you talk about Romans 9. Which verse?

Can you point to a verse that talks to "predeterminative intervention"

Do you believe man is inherently good, and that God has to intervene to prevent that good? Do you believe that man is capable from self, to do anything that is pleasing to God or for His good pleasure?

Salvation is **because** ie libertarianly of faith.
What does that even mean?
Salvation does not come from self as you are claiming here. You are in the flesh. You believe your fleshy liberatarian faith saves you, and not the revealed Spiritual truth that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior.
You also seem to be having a problem with letting go of liberatarianism and being obedient to the leading of the Spirit.
I put it to you, that you post about your liberatarian free will and your obedience to it more than you ever have about the will of God.
Romans 9:32 (KJV) Wherefore? *Because* they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Limited Predetermination is elaborated in Isaiah 10 where the Assyrians buck against God's predetermination ie the axe bucks against the Hand that wields it. God called them to punish the Israelites and they did so but then became proud and went beyond it, so God punished them back in line.
Not sure again what you are on about here.
What is the stumbling stone spoken of in Rom 9:32?
What was their liberatarian choice? They believed they were good by following the law. I am sure they liberatarianly had good intentions by following the law liberatarianly. How did that benefit them?
Isaiah 10:5-7, 15-16 (KJV)
5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

--God predetermines Assyria to punish Israel:

6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

--Assyria has other intentions:

7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.

--God accuses Assyria of bucking (libertarianly) against the Hand that wields the axe:

15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.

--God punishes them maintaining His predetermination by force:

16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.

Thus you are Scripturally in error.
No clue what you are on about...

Try using modern English, and leaving out words that your spell checker does not recognize.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
what you were asked is how is faith given

seeing as you claim it is a gift
This was answered by the way, you are merely ignoring the answer.

It is like asking, how are the gifts of the Holy Spirit given....

12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

You made yourself to drink the spirit you have?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Lurkers:
Notice that this poster does not even understand that his righteousness is like a filthy rag to God.
He is trying to tell you that your faith is the righteousness that saves you.

Jesus Christ and His imputed righteousness is skipped over. It is therefore faith in Christ as Lord and Savior that imputes the righteousness of Christ.

His truth is that his faith is righteousness and not Jesus Christ, and says a Calvinist must explain this thing that he holds as a truth.
Why should a Calvinist try and explain some false teaching they do not hold to? Because the poster has no integrity.

My faith is in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. His righteousness is imputed to me because of the gift of faith received.
First, you made several statements about me I never made and don't believe,
Also,you did not address the point: God counts our faith as if it is righteousness.
This means that faith as expressed by us is not righteous,
God has decided to count our faith as righreousness
 

Manfred

Well-known member
First, you made several statements about me I never made and don't believe,
Also,you did not address the point: God counts our faith as if it is righteousness.
This means that faith as expressed by us is not righteous,
God has decided to count our faith as righreousness
Lurkers:
Notice that this poster does not even understand that his righteousness is like a filthy rag to God.
He is trying to tell you that your (self generated) faith is the righteousness that saves you.

Jesus Christ and His imputed righteousness is skipped over. It is therefore faith in Christ as Lord and Savior that imputes the righteousness of Christ.

His truth is that his faith is righteousness and not Jesus Christ, and says a Calvinist must explain this thing that he holds as a truth.
Why should a Calvinist try and explain some false teaching they do not hold to? Because the poster has no integrity.

My faith is in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. His righteousness is imputed to me because of the gift of faith received.
 
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fltom

Well-known member
Why are you in this forum? Just to annoy people? Get a dog or a cat, or anything that can give you attention, because obviously you lack it.
Did you actually read what was posted
That guy creates a post just to talk about me and I responded to correct some inaccurate comments and all you can do is say what you did

Unbelieveable
 

fltom

Well-known member
This was answered by the way, you are merely ignoring the answer.
Your answer was you don't know



It is like asking, how are the gifts of the Holy Spirit given....

12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

You made yourself to drink the spirit you have?
That verse in not about gifts on the holy spirit

It is about making one a Christian
 
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