The free will systems

ReverendRV

Well-known member
<snip>

The false teacher fltom, want's to bring a message that as per Satan, man will surely not die spiritually but will retain the ability to approach the Tree of Life through their flesh (Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior). Through this fleshy ability tman can now assess weather or not they want to eat of the fruit.

He tries to prove this by saying that God selectively hardens the hearts and blinds and deafens people with the ability to come in the flesh. This is some sort of backwards election that he teaches. He is saying that God is preventing people who want to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, (non elect) and allowing others to believe it, in the flesh (elect)

This is how this false teacher perverts the Word of God, and listens to the voice of Satan telling him:
4 But the serpent said to the woman, You will not surely die. ...she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.
Wow, I never thought about it like that...
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Wrong

I was thinking of preacher4truth

On the other hand three times at least I corrected you concerning John 12:40

You falsely claimed I was denying that man lost access to the tree of life and that I was supporting Satan lie

All those things are false I stated nothing at all about any of that nor did John
If you stopped brushing over posts, and if you were interested in actual two way correspondence, then you would not make stupid mistakes.
Go back and find the correspondence I had with you regarding total depravity and your claim about inability and ability.

Perhaps then you can catch on.
I doubt it though. That is why I am addressing Lurkers who may be following what I actually stated.

Like in this latest correspondence. You read things into scripture, and then expect everyone to agree with your eisegesis.

Please show everyone where in John 7:38.39 and Gal 3:14 does it say that faith does not come by Spiritual revelation, but rather by a free will choice.

As to the scripture I posted from 1Cor 12. The issue is not weather the Spiritual gift of faith is the same as the Gift of the Holy Spirit, (It is not BTW), and that is never what I argued. That is what you made it out to be.
What I was saying as per this scripture:
12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

The same Spirit that baptized us into the Body, is the same Spirit that gives us ANYTHING spiritual.

Your empty faith that is not spiritual, cannot merit you salvation, as you think it does. It is devoid of the Spirit of God and therefore powerless.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
If you stopped brushing over posts, and if you were interested in actual two way correspondence, then you would not make stupid mistakes.
Go back and find the correspondence I had with you regarding total depravity and your claim about inability and ability.

Perhaps then you can catch on.
I doubt it though. That is why I am addressing Lurkers who may be following what I actually stated.

Like in this latest correspondence. You read things into scripture, and then expect everyone to agree with your eisegesis.

Please show everyone where in John 7:38.39 and Gal 3:14 does it say that faith does not come by Spiritual revelation, but rather by a free will choice.

As to the scripture I posted from 1Cor 12. The issue is not weather the Spiritual gift of faith is the same as the Gift of the Holy Spirit, (It is not BTW), and that is never what I argued. That is what you made it out to be.
What I was saying as per this scripture:
12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

The same Spirit that baptized us into the Body, is the same Spirit that gives us ANYTHING spiritual.

Your empty faith that is not spiritual, cannot merit you salvation, as you think it does. It is devoid of the Spirit of God and therefore powerless.
They've learned from the Professor of Provisionism to only grade your correspondence as if it were your Finals; and always give you an F minus. That's all he's here for. It's as if he's the Substitute Teacher for Matt Slick's CARM Soteriology Class, and every time you get Arminianism right, you still get an F because Arminianism is not Provisionism...

Especially when you get Calvinism right, he gives you an F...
 

fltom

Well-known member
Hey genius. When do I get my quotes, speaking of being dishonest
Wrong topic

You were not accused of believing a specific word such as infused, installed, or transfered

You were asked to supply a word you found acceptable and never did
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Go back and check.....




To the Lurkers:
Anything this person says or teaches and stands in agreement with, with other posters here should be examined as he is here only to cause strife and division.
I must wholeheartedly agree, which is why I have them on "ignore", but I don't much care for lurking or strife and division so it's probably time for me to stop lurking. The only way I can do that is to ignore you as well. It's a problem for me, and if I don't want to interact with those causing strife and division, I really need to stop lurking in on these one-sided conversations as well. Just because I'm no longer participating, they're really no less annoying. I need to stop doing this, it's kind of masochistic.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I must wholeheartedly agree, which is why I have them on "ignore", but I don't much care for lurking or strife and division so it's probably time for me to stop lurking. The only way I can do that is to ignore you as well. It's a problem for me, and if I don't want to interact with those causing strife and division, I really need to stop lurking in on these one-sided conversations as well. Just because I'm no longer participating, they're really no less annoying. I need to stop doing this, it's kind of masochistic.
Lol, I understand.

I am making an effort to ignore...
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Believing has no substance? No idea what you mean by that?
You can't put your "Weight" on a belief, and expect it to hold you.

Camping had a "BELIEF" that May 21, 2011 would be "the end of the world". WHisnant had a "BELIEF" that the Rapture would occur during the feast of trumpets in 1988. Both of 'em spent serious ca$h on their "BELIEF", and gethered may followers, who read their materials (I still have a copy of "88 Reasons" that somene gave me in 1989). It "proves Biblically" the "BELIEF" beyond any intellectual doubt that the Raptuire will be in 1988.

How much actual "Substance" did their "BELIEFS" possess?? Were their "BELIEFS" a reliable EVIDENCE of what was going to happen??

Being Born Again is by FAITH - not "Belief".
 

fltom

Well-known member
Lazarus is a type of new life. He was regenerated back into his old body, he did NOT get a new body.
So his regeneration is not the same as ours will be. But he is a type of the resurrection of the righteous dead.
The story of Lazarus in never given a soteriological implication or presented as an analogy of spiritual death
 

fltom

Well-known member
And if the Bible is true and man is really actually dead( no life , stimuli ) in sin then regeneration is a necessity which is exactly what scripture teaches us in John 3, Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2. The dead cannot place faith in God, it’s an impossibility .

It’s the equivalent of asking Lazarus to come out of the grave without Jesus giving him life. Impossible
Except the bible notes dead men receive life through faith

John 20:31 (ESV)
31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Colossians 2:12-13 (ESV)
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, (faith - necessary for forgiveness - made alive)

Ephesians 2:5-8 (ESV)
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

John 6:53 (KJV)
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

and coming to Christ

John 5:40 (ESV)
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
The story of Lazarus in never given a soteriological implication or presented as an analogy of spiritual death
I agree that the Bible does not comment on Lazarus as a type.
But then the Bible presents many types that it does not comment on.
For instance, do we have scripture stating that Issac was a type of Christ? We might, but if we don't; his intended death, and his father's confidence that God would bring him back to life is a type.
 

fltom

Well-known member
I agree that the Bible does not comment on Lazarus as a type.
But then the Bible presents many types that it does not comment on.
For instance, do we have scripture stating that Issac was a type of Christ? We might, but if we don't; his intended death, and his father's confidence that God would bring him back to life is a type.

Typology is for illustration not the making of doctrine

It can only illustrate existing doctrine

and typology certainly does not allow one to contradict scripture

Lazarus's story not only has no biblical justification but it leads to a contradiction of scripture
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Typology is for illustration not the making of doctrine

It can only illustrate existing doctrine

and typology certainly does not allow one to contradict scripture

Lazarus's story not only has no biblical justification but it leads to a contradiction of scripture
No wonder...
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You can't put your "Weight" on a belief, and expect it to hold you.

Camping had a "BELIEF" that May 21, 2011 would be "the end of the world". WHisnant had a "BELIEF" that the Rapture would occur during the feast of trumpets in 1988. Both of 'em spent serious ca$h on their "BELIEF", and gethered may followers, who read their materials (I still have a copy of "88 Reasons" that somene gave me in 1989). It "proves Biblically" the "BELIEF" beyond any intellectual doubt that the Raptuire will be in 1988.

How much actual "Substance" did their "BELIEFS" possess?? Were their "BELIEFS" a reliable EVIDENCE of what was going to happen??

Being Born Again is by FAITH - not "Belief".
First, in the Bible, faith and belief is the same Greek word. You probably know that.
Also, in one sense, Camping did what we all should be doing, studying the Bible and living it out to the best of our understanding.
Obviously Camping went wrong somewhere, which tells us despite any confidence we may have in our Biblical understanding, we must keep open to correction.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Typology is for illustration not the making of doctrine

It can only illustrate existing doctrine

and typology certainly does not allow one to contradict scripture

Lazarus's story not only has no biblical justification but it leads to a contradiction of scripture
Curious, what contradiction are you alluding to?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Curious, what contradiction are you alluding to?
It contradicts the bibles testimony

That men are made alive through faith

one example

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
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