The Futility of Arminianism

Janice Bower

Janice Bower

Well-known member
There is no hope for most of the world!

Acts 17:26 KJV
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Acts 17:26 NIV
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Whosoever will? How can they will to be Christian in the far corners of the earth? In a country or place where missionaries are forbidden? Or in a home where Christianity is ridiculed and mocked? Now in the U. S. people are being told they can't pray or talk about God in public (schools). My daughter was attacked by another student in elementary school in the very early eighties and I went to school to talk to the principal. I was told in no uncertain terms that children are not to mention God at school. According to her my daughter was the person in the wrong.

Unless God reveals Himself to individuals, they will NOT believe! Non-Calvinists aren't facing REALITY!
 
Why do Arminians and other non-Calvinists believe that it's okay if multitudes of people never become Christians? Yet they believe the atonement provides everyone an opportunity to become a Christian.
 
Janice Bower said:
There is no hope for most of the world!

Acts 17:26 KJV
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Acts 17:26 NIV
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Whosoever will? How can they will to be Christian in the far corners of the earth? In a country or place where missionaries are forbidden? Or in a home where Christianity is ridiculed and mocked? Now in the U. S. people are being told they can't pray or talk about God in public (schools). My daughter was attacked by another student in elementary school in the very early eighties and I went to school to talk to the principal. I was told in no uncertain terms that children are not to mention God at school. According to her my daughter was the person in the wrong.

Unless God reveals Himself to individuals, they will NOT believe! Non-Calvinists aren't facing REALITY!
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This touches on the issue of inclusivism which would stray beyond the Calvinism/Arminianism forum; but you might give some thought to Peter's words in Acts 10:34-35. "Then Peter opened his mouth and said: 'In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.' " You might give some thought to who Peter was speaking of, and about the fact that this man was earlier described as devout and God-fearing before he had even heard the gospel of Jesus Christ.

For that matter, since you quoted Acts 17:26 I could direct your attention to the very next verse which says "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us..."

I started a thread on inclusivism on the Apologetics forum a while back, which you can click here to view: https://forums.carm.org/threads/my-cautious-endorsement-of-inclusivism.6379/

Spoiler: nothing I said should be taken to mean that one can be saved, go to heaven, or otherwise have access to eternal life apart from Jesus Christ.
 
Janice Bower said:
There is no hope for most of the world!

Acts 17:26 KJV
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Acts 17:26 NIV
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Whosoever will? How can they will to be Christian in the far corners of the earth? In a country or place where missionaries are forbidden? Or in a home where Christianity is ridiculed and mocked? Now in the U. S. people are being told they can't pray or talk about God in public (schools). My daughter was attacked by another student in elementary school in the very early eighties and I went to school to talk to the principal. I was told in no uncertain terms that children are not to mention God at school. According to her my daughter was the person in the wrong.

Unless God reveals Himself to individuals, they will NOT believe! Non-Calvinists aren't facing REALITY!
Click to expand...
You depend way to much on what others say. You really believe the Holy Spirit is limited to where He can travel and who He can draw to Jesus ?
 
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 5:9 KJV

Thank God for grace in Christ. By His blood all of Israel was justified.

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Isaiah 45:25 KJV
 
Who seeks the Lord apart from God's intervention? My four living siblings from my mother's three marriages are as anti-Christian as she was. My deceased sibling never became a Christian.

Romans 3

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God
 
squirrelyguy said:
This touches on the issue of inclusivism which would stray beyond the Calvinism/Arminianism forum; but you might give some thought to Peter's words in Acts 10:34-35. "Then Peter opened his mouth and said: 'In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.' " You might give some thought to who Peter was speaking of, and about the fact that this man was earlier described as devout and God-fearing before he had even heard the gospel of Jesus Christ.

For that matter, since you quoted Acts 17:26 I could direct your attention to the very next verse which says "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us..."

I started a thread on inclusivism on the Apologetics forum a while back, which you can click here to view: https://forums.carm.org/threads/my-cautious-endorsement-of-inclusivism.6379/

Spoiler: nothing I said should be taken to mean that one can be saved, go to heaven, or otherwise have access to eternal life apart from Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
This reeks of Primitive Baptist doctrine that teaches God saves ppl even if they've never heard the gospel. This is called hyper-Calvinism, which no Calvinist believes.
 
Janice Bower said:
I didn't know that. They believe ppl are saved with no faith in Christ? ???
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They believe the gospel brings to light the salvation that has already occurred. And at the same time believe God saves many who've never heard the gospel. It's a very poor view of the gospel and it's necessity in saving the elect.
 
Janice Bower said:
I didn't know that. They believe ppl are saved with no faith in Christ? ???
Click to expand...
Missionaries: Primitive Baptist beliefs say the elect will be saved by Christ and Christ alone. Missionaries cannot "save souls." Mission work is not mentioned in the gifts of the church in Ephesians 4:11. One reason Primitives split from other Baptists was a disagreement over missions boards.

www.learnreligions.com

What Do Primitive Baptists Believe and Teach?

Primitive Baptist beliefs are based on the King James Bible and differ from most Christian churches on the doctrines of limited atonement and total depravity.
www.learnreligions.com www.learnreligions.com

So much for the Great Commission I guess. :rolleyes:
 
Janice Bower said:
I didn't know that. They believe ppl are saved with no faith in Christ? ???
Click to expand...
DO YOU BELIEVE IN MISSIONS?

The term's mission and missionary do not appear in the Bible. They represent the introduction of ideas, which were advanced after the giving of the Scriptures. What is a mission? Is it a church? Primitive Baptists do believe in churches and if by missions you mean churches, Primitive Baptists do believe in missions. What is a missionary? Is he a preacher - or a minister of the Gospel? Primitive Baptists believe in God-called ministers of the Gospel and if a missionary is a preacher, we believe in missionaries. Primitive Baptists do believe in preaching the Gospel in all nations (Matthew 28:19), but only as the individual minister is instructed to go by the Holy Spirit. They "were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia" (Acts 16:6-8). We believe the minister is to go as did the Apostle Paul, where the Holy Spirit directs, and is to be supported in this work by the people of God (1 Corinthians 9:14). We do object to the common idea of missions; namely, that eternal salvation is brought to individuals by the preaching of the Gospel. The Gospel does not bring salvation but rather reveals salvation. It is "the savior of death unto death; and... of life unto life" (II Corinthians 2:16).

"And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:48). Some people believe that a person cannot be saved unless he hears and accepts the Gospel. This belief completely damns anyone who has not heard the Gospel, even if his failure to hear it was because no one preached it to him. Is it reasonable to assume that God would predicate salvation on a belief such as this? Someone might say that if a person never hears the Gospel, he is not held accountable and will therefore be saved automatically. If this is so, why send preachers anywhere? If a preacher goes to a country where the Gospel is heard for the first time, some will believe and some will not. Those who do not believe are said to be not saved and will go to hell. If we leave the preacher home, all of them would be saved. Can God's plan of salvation have this many holes in it? No, the Bible tells us "thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation..." (Revelation 5:9). Since God has a people in every kindred and tongue and people and nation, certainly their salvation does not depend upon a preacher's reaching them with the Gospel, but it depends upon the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ, and the work of the Holy Spirit.

 
SovereignGrace said:
What we're seeing is a divorcement of the Holy Spirit from the word of God. No one is saved apart from the Holy Spirit, and both sides agree. However, let's not throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater and say that ppl are saved outside of hearing the word of God.
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I agree!

Back in the days shortly after leaving Mormonism we were attending a very small Wesleyan church (less that 25 people?) and the pastor told us that one couple didn't believe in missions. I asked why. He said, "They're Baptists." Hmmm. Primitive Baptists maybe. I thought almost all Baptists were Calvinists until I ran into some General Baptists. I know there are Free Will Baptists and Seventh Day Baptists, too.
 
Janice Bower said:
There is no hope for most of the world!

Acts 17:26 KJV
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Acts 17:26 NIV
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Whosoever will? How can they will to be Christian in the far corners of the earth? In a country or place where missionaries are forbidden? Or in a home where Christianity is ridiculed and mocked? Now in the U. S. people are being told they can't pray or talk about God in public (schools). My daughter was attacked by another student in elementary school in the very early eighties and I went to school to talk to the principal. I was told in no uncertain terms that children are not to mention God at school. According to her my daughter was the person in the wrong.

Unless God reveals Himself to individuals, they will NOT believe! Non-Calvinists aren't facing REALITY!
Click to expand...
you would have answered your own conundrum had you read the next verse

Acts 17:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

The setting of their times and habitation was provide opportunity not deny it
 
SovereignGrace said:
They believe the gospel brings to light the salvation that has already occurred. And at the same time believe God saves many who've never heard the gospel. It's a very poor view of the gospel and it's necessity in saving the elect.
Click to expand...
I do believe the first sentence but not the second. All those who are in Christ will be taught of God before they die...I believe this is their way of lessening the offense of the cross, which compromises the Gospel?.
 
SovereignGrace said:
So much for the Great Commission I guess. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Have you read the black rock address? I've found the early "primitive baptists" are much different than modern ones. I agree much more with the hard shell or whatever they are called.

For example, I do not consider Samuel Trott to be a hyper Calvinist, but modern day primitive baptists, yes.
 
Janice Bower said:
I didn't know that. They believe ppl are saved with no faith in Christ? ???
Click to expand...
Yes, they place people in heaven that have never heard the Gospel, or have never even heard of Christ. They seek out converts to their error that are already professing believers. They do not evangelize, and they mock us as "Gospel means preachers."

They also go around with their alleged "ESP" and can tell who's going to heaven, and who "ain't."

And it gets way, way worse, believe me.
 
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