The Gathering of God's People

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
The Lord's faithful Christian peoples will gather into all of the holy Land:

Ezekiel 20:34 By My strong hand and outstretched arm and outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out of the peoples and gather you from the lands where you are dispersed.

Ezekiel 11:17 I shall gather you from among the nations and bring you together from the countries where you have been exiled and I will give the Land of Israel to you.

Ezekiel 36:13 I shall lead My sheep out of the nations, gather them from the different lands and bring them to their own country.

And it will be God Who gathers them. This isn't a human effort.

And when He gathers them there will be a judgment:


Matthew 25:31-33 King James Version

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.



You are suggesting something Scripture denies: that "The Lord's faithful Christian peoples will gather into all of the holy Land:"

You're missing a large part of Prophecy in your view and having to impose that which is in error to support your view.


God bless.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
This verse is wrongly translated in many Bibles. The Revised English Bible says: .....pray that you may be able to pass safely through all these things.. The right trans, otherwise a contradiction is made with verse 35, where it says; disaster will come upon everyone all the world over.

The Marriage of the Lamb, Revelation 19:9, will be on earth, when Jesus Returns.
We Christians must stand firm in our faith and endure until the end. Revelation 14:12


I don't see anything in Revelation suggesting the Church is to stand fast. I see National Israel saved and protected in the last 3 1/2 years, but I just don't see the Church mentioned at all.

Since the Church will be in Heaven with Christ, and Christ will reign over the Millennial Kingdom, it is reasonable to view the Marriage Supper as taking place both in Heaven and on earth. All believers, whether glorified or unglorified and still in unredeemed flesh, will enjoy this time.



God bless.
 

Keraz

Active member
The Beheaded Trib. saints REIGN with Christ during those 1000 Years ( Rev.20:4-6 ) before the GWTJ happens! Thus they are in Fact resurrected into their Glorified bodies in order to reign with Him
Nowhere does Rev 20 say the martyrs of the GT are 'glorified', or made immortal. Rev 20:6 plainly states they may die again, but their second death has no power over them. That is; Because their names are Written in the Book of Life, they automatically receive immortality at the GWT Judgment.
I am a Gentile believer, living in the Time of the Gentiles, and I did not become a "Christian Israelite.

I am a son of God, not a son of Abraham.
Paul says that you; as a Christian believer, are an Israelite of God and Abrahams descendant by faith; Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16
Secondly, Israel remains, in her blinded state, the "Holy People." That is her designation in Scripture, why would that change now?
Who you call Israel are only the Jewish people. Jesus took the Kingdom from them; Matthew 21:43
Some of them are now in a part if the holy Land, but in apostasy and many Prophesies tell of their virtual demise in the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, +
Lastly, that National Israel is seen in the holy land has nothing to do with the Body of Christ being caught up. National Israel will be seen in the holy land to fulfill Prophecy. It is National Israel (Daniel's People) that the Seven-Year Tribulation pertains to foremost in Prophecy. It will be National Israel brought into the New Covenant through this time of judgment, according to Prophecy:
Replace the word 'National' with the word 'Spiritual', and the statement above would be correct.
Proved by Ephesians 2:11-18, where ethnicity has no bearing on who the people of God are.
There is plenty of support for the Rapture of the Church. It is stated in no uncertain terms.
I cannot see any verse that says humans can go to live in heaven. There is plenty of verses which say we must keep strong in our faith and endure until the end.
Those who refute and speak against the 'rapture to heaven' doctrine, do so out of concern for our fellow Christians, who have been lied to and deceived by their teachers.

There is no definitive scripture that says God intends to take His people up to heaven in these end times. There are, in fact quite a few that say such a thing is impossible: John 3:13, John 17:15, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, 1 Cor 1:7-9, 1 Cor 10:13, 1 Peter 4:12-19, Jeremiah 25:29, Proverbs 10:30 Psalms 10:30, Psalms 37:29, Revelation 2:25-26

We are aware of the problem of many Christians, in that the 'rapture' is the only teaching for the Church, before Jesus Returns. One American I spoke to said: The rapture is all I have ever been taught.

This is a very sad state of affairs, as this false theory has set up many to fall from their faith, when they expect to be raptured, doesn't happen.

Here is a quote from Art Katz, a messianic Jew: “Nothing has more disarmed the Church of the necessity for preparation, discipleship and maturity that can stand strong in faith, in these end times; than the mistaken idea of a rapture to heaven, so they won’t have to face the Lord’s wrath”.
What we are told to do when things get bad, is to 'Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved.' Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

Also, with the 'rapture' belief, you miss out on knowing the amazing promises of God, of how He will protect and bless His faithful people, as they live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land.

There are many prophesies telling us about God's plans, do not make the mistake of attributing His Blessings to the Jews. They have lost the Kingdom, Matthew 21:43, and we Christians, Jew and Gentile, are the inheritors of God's promises. Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Galatians 3:26-29, as followers of Jesus, the One true Israel, thru whom all the promises of God will be fulfilled. 2 Corinthians 1:20
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
rod.ney said:
The Beheaded Trib. saints REIGN with Christ during those 1000 Years ( Rev.20:4-6 ) before the GWTJ happens! Thus they are in Fact resurrected into their Glorified bodies in order to reign with Him


Nowhere does Rev 20 say the martyrs of the GT are 'glorified', or made immortal. Rev 20:6 plainly states they may die again, but their second death has no power over them. That is; Because their names are Written in the Book of Life, they automatically receive immortality at the GWT Judgment.

We can take it for granted that if Scripture states they lived and reigned with Christ for one thousand years, then none of them die in that timeframe.

I will agree, we could view this as a natural resurrection into unglorified bodies, because long life is one of the characteristics of the Restored Kingdom of Israel. So we could just see they live throughout the MIllennial Kingdom physically. However, since the rapture of the Two Witnesses shows that a rapture can in fact precede the First Resurrection, it is likely these martyred saints who die in the Tribulation will be glorified.

And for those who reject the Millennial Kingdom, I would ask you to explain why it is that a one thousand year period is not going to take place when Scripture makes it clear it will. If you think this...


2 Peter 3:8 King James Version

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


... makes the thousand year period something than it is, I would have to suggest you are simply not being reasonable.

First, it is with God that a thousand years is as a day, and a day as a thousand years, not with man. Peter is simply telling those who exist in the timeline of Creation that while it might seem long to us, it doesn't to an Eternal God.

Secondly, if the thousand years is as a "day" in the sense of "the day of Abraham," or "in the day of Moses," then it is still a period longer than a 24 hour day. And while we could make this "day" a thousand years, we most certainly could not make it a 24 hour period. See the problem there?

Third, since we are given the timeframe, a thousand years, then that seems to be the period of time Scripture meant to give.

Fourth, we see distinct events described within this period that deny a short period, so we know it is a long period, and the events themselves demand a long period. The point being this: there is a long period of time between the first resurrection in which the martyred believers of the Tribulation are raised from the dead, which denies the First Resurrection as the resurrection of the proof texts you use to create only one resurrection.

FIfth, we have the two very distinct resurrections themselves, which cannot be the Rapture, nor can the two be the same resurrrection. We have only believers raised in the First Resurrection (the resurrection that occurs after Christ's Return), and only the dead said to be raised in the second death, the Resurrection unto damnation. In the Rapture, only those of the Church are raised, both living and dead.

So instead of just saying "There is no Millennial Kingdom, that is false (as at least one member likes to do)," how about looking at the issue and finding out exactly who it is that has embraced the doctrines of men?

Those who deny the Rapture, and the Pre-Trib Rapture, and the Millennial Kingdom are approaching Scripture exactly like first century Jews did.: they do not understand that Prophecy has partial fulfillment which have long periods between their fulfillment. I will give you an example of that:


Luke 4:17-21 King James Version

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Note in v.18, "to set at liberty them that are bruised," and that the Lord closes the book at this part of the Prophecy. Now let's look at the original prophecy:


Isaiah 61 King James Version

1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;



Well, it seems there is a little more to the prophecy than where the Lord stopped. It seems that He is telling them that it was not time for the Day of Vengeance to be fulfilled at that time.

Has it been fulfilled? Not at all. And we know that as we continue on in the Prophecy:



3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.


Did (has) Israel "build the old wastes, raise up the former desolations, repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations?"

Not yet.

So I would caution those who are rejecting the Millennial Kingdom to consider the error of the first century Jew.

I would caution the Pre-Tribulation Rapture rejecters and Amil teachers that they are similar to Hymanaeus and Philetus:


2 Timothy 2:16-18 King James Version

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.


Now how exactly could someone teach that the resurrection had already passed? That is very simple: the resurrection in view is the resurrection of the Rapture. You couldn't possibly teach believers the General Resurrection of the Dead (which takes place at the Great White Throne) had already taken place, so we look at other resurrections that would have been known to those Paul wrote to.

I am looking forward to speaking to those who reject the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and the Millennial Kingdom. It's a great discussion.


Continued...
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Nowhere does Rev 20 say the martyrs of the GT are 'glorified', or made immortal. Rev 20:6 plainly states they may die again, but their second death has no power over them. That is; Because their names are Written in the Book of Life, they automatically receive immortality at the GWT Judgment.

Revelation 20:6 does not imply in the least that, as you are teaching, "they may die again:"


Revelation 20:6 King James Version

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



Nor is your teaching, "That is; Because their names are Written in the Book of Life, they automatically receive immortality at the GWT Judgment," a Biblical teaching. It is pretty obvious that in regards to the redeemed body of the redeemed born-again believer we receive that redeemed body at the Rapture:


1 Corinthians 15:50-53 King James Version

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.



The mystery here is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. This is true in the spiritual sense, because no man enters the Kingdom of God (either the spiritual realm of salvation or the temporal Restored Kingdom of Israel) except he be born again; it is also true in the physical sense.

Meaning, we cannot go to Heaven in our corruptible bodies.

Again, here is the mystery: corruptible does put on corruption (v.53) and mortal does put on immortality, because not everyone in the Body of Christ will die physically.

See this mystery?

Please don't tell me "This is at the end of the Tribulation because we see the last trump mentioned, and this is the Last Trumpet Judgment." Sorry, but the erroneous teaching that the three sets of judgments of Revelation (Seal, Trumpet, and Bowl/Vial) are the same, because it is quite obvious there are differences that demand they be viewed as separate judgments, they simply do not correlate as we see in comparisons of Old Testament Prophecy and New (i.e., the Supper of the Great God described in Ezekile 39 and Revelation 19).

The last Trumpet Judgment unleashes the last set, the Bowl/Vial judgments. Only when trying to support the doctrines, theories, philosophies, and hermeneutics of men can one miss that obvious fact.

You might also say this passage doesn't refer to timing, and I would agree. However, when we look at all relevant Prophecy we are going to see that a Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the only tenable timing for the Church.

It simply cannot happen at the end of the tribulation because this would nullify the multitude that is destroyed by God:


Revelation 20:7-9 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.



I will have to say it is amusing to see one member rejecting the Amil position and the Pre-Trib Rapture to another member. That's actually a new one on me.


Continued...

 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Paul says that you; as a Christian believer, are an Israelite of God and Abrahams descendant by faith; Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16

You know, if you want to be a teacher, you might consider providing the Scripture you think supports your view.

No one is going to look up these quotes that you dot your teachings with.

Just saying.

So let's look at your support that denies I am a son of GOd, and instead I am an Israelite of God and a descendant of Abraham by faith:


Galatians 3:26-29 King James Version

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



If you want to look at being "Abraham's seed, which is a metaphorical declaration of how the promises of God would fall on men, and ignore the fact that we are children of God, not Abraham, have at it.

Just be aware that your desire to support erroneous teaching will not be received by those who include all relevant passages on the subject.

Let's see Paul continue to speak about our adoption as sons (of God):


Galatians 4 King James Version

1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.



If you want to teach men that they are Abraham's sons and daughters, have at it.

Me, I will teach the reality of the adoption of sons:


John 1:11-13 King James Version

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



Abraham died in faith, awaiting the reality of the Eternal Redemption his seed would bring. If you familiarize yourself with the Book of Galatians, rather than simply plucking out proof texts that support the system of men you have been indoctrinated into (which has completely disarmed you to go into battle), you would see that we don't take metaphorical allusions to spiritual truths and use them to support doctrines which have to constantly deny the realities figurative language is meant to teach.

The need to make men "sons of Abraham" is tied directly to your atrocious eschatology, and it forces you to overlook the grand conclusion of the Work of Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek/Gentile in the Body of Christ, for the Church is separate from Jew and Gentile. In the temporal realm, it is made very obvious that there is Jew and Gentile. Israel has been blinded until the time of the Gentiles ends, at which time she will be brought into relationship with God under the New Covenant.

You are being very selective in your proof texts. You will see the utter error of a Post-Tribulation Rapture before we are done.


Continued...
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Who you call Israel are only the Jewish people. Jesus took the Kingdom from them; Matthew 21:43

And they are the same people Paul teaches will be brought back into relationship under the New Covenant.

Don't you understand that this promise was made to them? That Gentile Inclusion did not nullify God's promises to them?


Romans 11
King James Version

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,



In view is National Israel.


11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?



I think you are making the mistake many make, and your view (which is replacement theory) denies the Scripture. God has not cast them away, and trying to make Gentiles and the remnant nullify what Paul is teaching is foolish.

If Israel had been cast away, then they would not be viewed as the root:


15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?



Think about what is said here: branches that were broken off will be received again. You will never change that to support your spiritualized and lacking doctrine.



16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.


17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;



Note that it is holy branches that are in the olive tree. Gentiles are grafted into that tree that had as firstfruits Israel. Some of the branches were broken off, but...

... the tree is still there. The root is still there. The Tree is the provision of God. This was the means of Israel's relationship with and to God. Gentiles now partake of that provision, and do so through the True Vine. Israel was warned to abode in the True Vine (John 15), for Christ is the true provision of eternal relationship with God.

But again I point out the provision is still there.



18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.


19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.


20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:



You are doing precisely what Paul wants you of doing, you are boasting that the natural branches have been broken off (and cast away) that you might be grafted in (receive that provision of God which is rooted in His promise).

Again, branches were broken off, the Tree wasn't cut down. And that is what you teach.


21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.



Since Scripture makes it clear Eternal Salvation is in fact eternal/everlasting, we are forced to view this as a reference to nationality, not an individual event dealing with individuals. And since Israel is the main theme we can easily divide the two groups as Israel and Gentile.

Unbelief will result in, again, branches being cut out, but we do not see the Tree cut down.


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.



This shows that blindness for Israel will come to an end one day. You won't change that. And since Paul clearly distinguishes between Jew and Gentile in the Tree, we can know that he is speaking of National Israel here.


26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:



"All Israel will be saved" because when God gathers them all will be born again believers (John 3:3-5). This will occur when Christ returns.


27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



At this time National Israel will be brought into relationship with God through His New Covenant.

It's right there for you to embrace. You will no longer have to nullify the teachings of Scripture if you do. You will be able to leave the thousand years right where God put it, and your doctrine will no longer try to teach men to be sons of Abraham.


Continued...
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Some of them are now in a part if the holy Land, but in apostasy and many Prophesies tell of their virtual demise in the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, +

Again we see you have pulled a proof text out of context. Unbelievers will be destroyed:


Zephaniah 1:3-5 King James Version

3 I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked: and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the Lord.

4 I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the Chemarims with the priests;

5 And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the Lord, and that swear by Malcham;



You present vv.14-18 as though they support your position, but they do not.

It's pretty obvious to Prophecy Students that The Day of the Lord is a time of judgment. It is also pretty obvious that the Tribulation is intended for Daniel's People, Israel (Daniel 9:24).

Therefore, understand the matter.

Also equally obvious is that when Christ returns the Sheep and Goat judgment takes place (Matthew 25). Unbelievers, as in Zephaniah 1, will be destroyed physically. Believers are left, and unbelievers are taken in Judgment:


Luke 17:34-37 King James Version

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.



Matthew 24:27-28
King James Version

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


Revelation 19:17-18
King James Version

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.



Ezekiel 39 King James Version

1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.



If God speaks it, my friend, you should be very careful not to nullify what He has spoken, and that is precisely what you are doing. And that is the only result you are going to have as long as you continue to teach the doctrines of men.

All unbelievers will perish when Christ returns, and as Christ taught, only those who are born again, born from above, born of the Spirit, born of God—will enter the Kingdom of God. This includes the Millennial Kingdom, the thousand-year reign of Christ.


Continued...
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
S.T.Ranger said:

Lastly, that National Israel is seen in the holy land has nothing to do with the Body of Christ being caught up. National Israel will be seen in the holy land to fulfill Prophecy. It is National Israel (Daniel's People) that the Seven-Year Tribulation pertains to foremost in Prophecy. It will be National Israel brought into the New Covenant through this time of judgment, according to Prophecy:


Replace the word 'National' with the word 'Spiritual', and the statement above would be correct.

If I include the word "spiritual" I would be including Gentiles as well.

And that is not the point I am making.

I am correct that National Israel, the holy People of God, will exist in the literal one-thousand-year kingdom promised by God to ISrael.

The disciples of Christ, still unregenerate because they had not yet been Baptized with the Holy Ghost (meaning they had not received the Promised Spirit, the Promise of the Father), were still looking for that physical Kingdom:


Acts 1:4-7 King James Version

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.



The times and the seasons for the restoration of Israel is withheld from them. More importantly lies their receiving of Christ through the sending (by the Son) of the Holy Ghost from Heaven, the Comforter.

The Restoration of Israel is not denied by Christ, and is verified rather in His response.

And that the disciples will be saved on the day of Pentecost when they are baptized with the Holy Ghost is verified by Biblical Definition by Peter:


Acts 11:13-18 King James Version

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.



Gentile Inclusion is salvation exactly as the first to receive the Promise of the Father was. They received the Holy Ghost when they were baptized with the Holy Ghost. They were saved when they were baptized with the Holy Ghost.

They (Cornelius and his household) were saved the same way as the Jews. Repentance unto (eternal) life is contrasted with John's baptism unto repentance. John's baptism was under Law, by the Letter, and the Baptism of Christ (for He is the Baptizer) is with the Spirit.

This creates the New Man, the New Creature, which is neither Jew nor Gentile. We become one with God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in this relationship (John 14:15-23).

God's promise to Israel as a Nation is yet to be fulfilled:


Hebrews 10:15-18 King James Version

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.



And it is specific to the houses of Israel and Judah (where the divided nation will be made one again in Christ):


Jeremiah 31:31-34 King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.




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S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Proved by Ephesians 2:11-18, where ethnicity has no bearing on who the people of God are.


Neither does it have bearing on the ethnicity of Israel.

Nowhere is Israel told she must abandon her heritage.

Paul was willing, to prove he wasn't nullifying the Law of Moses, to enjoin a vow that had a sacrifice offered at the end of it:


Acts 21:17-27 King James Version

17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.

18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,



So if James, the Elders of the Church, and Paul did not think holding to their heritage was improper, on what would your erroneous teaching that casts Israel away be based on?


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S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
I cannot see any verse that says humans can go to live in heaven.

Who suggested they did?

I said:
S.T.Ranger said:

There is plenty of support for the Rapture of the Church. It is stated in no uncertain terms.


Those who are raptured are not simply human, their bodies are redeemed in the Rapture.

Paul groaned to be raptured:


2 Corinthians 5:1-4
King James Version

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.



He does not desire to be unclothed, that is, have his spirit leave his body that he might be with the Lord, but to be clothed upon with that body made by God, eternal in the heavens.

Understand?

This was his desire while he was alive. He wanted that body without dying.

He understood if he was absent from the body he would be with the Lord, but he wanted the eternal body without dying.

And that is what happens at the Rapture, those alive will not die:


1 Corinthians 15:51 KJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,



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S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
There is plenty of verses which say we must keep strong in our faith and endure until the end.

I agree. That doesn't nullify the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

You are creating syllogistic results with syllogistic reasoning.

But if you incorporate the Whole Counsel of God's Word you will be forced to put away childish doctrine.


Those who refute and speak against the 'rapture to heaven' doctrine, do so out of concern for our fellow Christians,

No, not really, because you are seeking to remove what is supposed to comfort and bring hope to believers:


1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 King James Version

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.



Paul's teaching comforts, yours does not, but resembles the teaching of Hymenaeus and Philetus:


2 Timothy 2:16-18 King James Version

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.



You have overthrown the faith of those who have bought into your doctrine of men. It's that simple.

"Uh, hey guys, you are going to have to endure seven years of time that will come upon the earth. It could happen at any time, and you will possibly be killed, but be of good cheer, as long as you endure to the end things will be great!"

What ineffable twaddle.


2 Thessalonians 2 King James Version

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



You teach the exact opposite: "Be fearful, the Day of the Lord is coming!"

Yet you ignore the teaching Paul gives here:

"We exhort you based on Christ's Coming (for us, John 14:1-3) and the Rapture (our gathering unto Him), don't be shaken in mind or troubled by demons or false teachings or extremely poor interpretive skills that the Day of the Lord is at hand. That day will not take place until there is a great apostasy and the Antichrist is revealed. You will know you have not missed the Rapture (the resurrection Hymenaeus and Philetus teach as having already come) and are facing the Tribulation (the Day of the Lord) because if you were, then you would have seen these things taking place.

"And it hasn't happened yet, has it? So I am trying to comfort you not to let false teachings rob you of the hope you have."


Understand?


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S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
who have been lied to and deceived by their teachers.

Who is lying, and who has been deceived can be made clear by the Word of God.

False teachers teach against what Paul taught as a hope for the Body.

Simple as that.


There is no definitive scripture that says God intends to take His people up to heaven in these end times.

I agree, He is going to do so before the Tribulation.

We know this because we see two resurrections in Revelation 20, which follows the Return Christ speaks about in Matthew 25, and neither of them meets the standards set by Paul: in the rapture every believer, alive and dead, are changed (glorified). In the two resurrections of Revelation, the first has only dead believers being raised (which you state, if I remember correctly, is not glorification), and in the second only the dead are mentioned. And it is quite apparent these are two entirely separate events divided by one thousand years.

The Prophecy of Revelation 20 in regards to the great multitude of unbelievers is nullified if the rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation, because there would be no one left to produce that multitude physically.

All unbelievers are destroyed according to every Prophecy given on the event, so it cannot be descendants of unbelievers. Every believer is raptured and glorified so it cannot be the offspring of those caught up.

That multitude destroys the Post-Tribulational Rapture. Scripture teaches it, and until that which is taken away from Scripture by those who teach against the Pre-Tribulational Rapture is put back in—you and the Amil and the Preterist will continue to err in your doctrine.


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S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
There are, in fact quite a few that say such a thing is impossible: John 3:13, John 17:15, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, 1 Cor 1:7-9, 1 Cor 10:13, 1 Peter 4:12-19, Jeremiah 25:29, Proverbs 10:30 Psalms 10:30, Psalms 37:29, Revelation 2:25-26

You are pitting Scripture against Scripture.

You are saying that Paul's teaching is nullified by other Scripture.

And the reason you do so is that you are arguing against a false argument that you yourself have presented:


I cannot see any verse that says humans can go to live in heaven.

I have never said men go to Heaven while alive. You conveniently overlook that the Rapture is a Resurrection and that believers will be glorified and made suitable for entrance to Heaven.

And when you can admit that to yourself you can begin the healing that needs to take place in your doctrine. God's Word is the remedy for the malady of false teaching. Take advantage of that cure.

Then you won't need to remove from God's Word what is there, and you won't have to make up false arguments so you can have an answer for something.


Continued...
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
We are aware of the problem of many Christians, in that the 'rapture' is the only teaching for the Church, before Jesus Returns. One American I spoke to said: The rapture is all I have ever been taught.

Here you go outside of the Word of God to support your teaching.

Do you really think this nullifies Paul's teaching?

And can you recognize how this man's faith has been subverted? He has turned from faith in Christ to faith in self: he thinks he has to endure to the end, rather than being preserved by God.


This is a very sad state of affairs, as this false theory has set up many to fall from their faith, when they expect to be raptured, doesn't happen.

Just for the record, in case you have missed it due to utilizing only proof texts for your views, believers aren't saved because they believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture or not: believers are saved because of The Faith delivered unto them, and that is faith in Christ.

You use man's word to make a point that if a believer has to go through tribulation they will lose their faith?

Again, what twaddle.

The same faith in Christ will be present in believers despite what they go through. Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of The Faith, and He will finish the work He has begun in us.

Now, those who are trusting something other than The Faith, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and Christ Himself, but are trusting in themselves—will fall away.

That is what the apostasy is all about. They will step away from Christ, thus proving they were never in Christ.

And we see a lot of liberal people today calling themselves Christians, and just as they prooftext a justification for murder (abortion) and abomination (homosexuality), even so, they will prooftext themselves into serving the Antichrist.

I caution those who reject the teachings of Scripture and have to nullify Scripture and appeal to the words of men to support their doctrine to give heed to the correction of Scripture.

If you believe there will be a thousand-year reign of Christ prior to the Great White Throne, you are forced to admit that the Rapture can only precede the TRibulation and Return of Christ.

It's that simple.


Continued...
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Here is a quote from Art Katz, a messianic Jew: “Nothing has more disarmed the Church of the necessity for preparation, discipleship and maturity that can stand strong in faith, in these end times; than the mistaken idea of a rapture to heaven, so they won’t have to face the Lord’s wrath”.
What we are told to do when things get bad, is to 'Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved.' Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

Twaddle.

I know of no Pre-Trib believer that denies that Christians can and do go through tribulation. The Tribulation of Revelation is going to be no worse for believers than it is in some parts of the world today. Men and women are killed daily for their faith in Christ.

The idea that those already calling on the Name of the Lord will cease calling on His Name because they realize they were wrong about whether they would go through the Tribulation or not is absurd.

And again, I will point out the authority you give to the teachings of men. That is not something we should do.

I will say the damage done to the Body concerning the Pre or Post (as well as the Amil and Preterist view) is that we have a Body that remains ignorant of Scripture, feeding on milk, regurgitating the doctrines of men, and refusing to go on unto perfection concerning the Doctrine of Christ.

Why study when you can have someone tell you what it is you should believe?

I would suggest to those who are not currently in study of Scripture for yourselves that it might be a good idea to make certain your calling and election: you cannot be saved by borrowing someone else's faith.


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S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Also, with the 'rapture' belief, you miss out on knowing the amazing promises of God,

On the contrary, we experience the promise of God leading us into all truth.


of how He will protect and bless His faithful people, as they live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land.

The problem is that you have no Scripture to support that.

Scripture is pretty clear that the time of the Gentiles will end and when that takes place—it is National Israel that is preserved through the Tribulation:


Revelation 12 King James Version

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.



You do understand that the Child came from Israel, right?

You have noticed that it was the Christ-Child that Satan sought to destroy when He came the first time as well, right?


6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


Again, Israel.


14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



Notice that Israel is preserved in the wilderness?

Notice Satan is angry with the remnant?

Ever bother to notice that it is to Israel, Daniel's People, who are told to flee when the Abomination which makes desolate is in place?


Matthew 24:13-16 King James Version

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:



Now who is it that is told to persevere when the context is specific to the Tribulation?

Right! Israel.

Was Christ telling Gentiles what it is they should do, or was he telling Israel?


Matthew 15:24 KJV
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


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S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
There are many prophesies telling us about God's plans, do not make the mistake of attributing His Blessings to the Jews.

Why not? Scripture does:

Romans 9:4 KJV

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;



This would be Paul's brethren nationally. You are teaching people to do the exact opposite of the perspective Scripture tells us we are to have.


They have lost the Kingdom, Matthew 21:43, and we Christians, Jew and Gentile, are the inheritors of God's promises. Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Galatians 3:26-29, as followers of Jesus, the One true Israel, thru whom all the promises of God will be fulfilled. 2 Corinthians 1:20

Again, the exact opposite of what Scripture commands:


Romans 11:18-21 King James Version

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.



Again, I will remind you, Scripture speaks of National Israel as being blinded, and branches being broken off.

You are teaching the Tree has been burned down.

You are teaching error.


God bless.
 

Keraz

Active member
You are teaching error.
I would suggest that you cease being an accuser of the brethren.
Your beliefs have been challenged; you reply with a screed of copy and scriptures that fail to prove your beliefs or to refute me.

With the Jews, they can only be re-grafted back into the Spiritual Tree, which is Jesus; by accepting Him as Saviour and Messiah. Very, very few Jews have done that and many prophesies tell of their virtual demise. Their ethnicity, which is doubtful anyway, is no help to them, as they have in fact; cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25
So the idea of a 'rapture' of the Church, while the Jews get tribulated and are all saved when Jesus Returns, is false teaching and will not happen.

Romans 9 to 11 proves the broken off branches who remain in unbelief are not true Israelites:
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named”.

This means that it is not the ethnic children who are God’s people, but the children of the promise, who have faith in Him, who are counted as Abrahams descendants.
The statement “For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” clearly denotes that some are ethnic Israel, the remnant of Romans 9:27. But the rest are shown as those who failed righteousness by attempting to keep the Law; verses 30-33.


As indeed He says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.' And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.’
Hosea prophesied of the coming time the descendants of the ten northern tribes, the nation of Israel/Ephraim, would be restored as God’s covenant people once more, which is precisely what the inauguration of the New Covenant accomplishes.


Hebrews 8:7-8 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
The inauguration of the new covenant was promised by the blood of Christ, which also released Judah and the House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes from the marriage contract of the Old Covenant. Romans 7:1-4

While Judah, for the most part, rejected Christ, Peter testifies of his ordained success with the elect exiles of the dispersion, Ephraim/Israel.

1 Peter1:1-12, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia and Bithynia, chosen in the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.


Paul, the Apostle to the people called Gentiles, but who are actually the scattered dispersion of Israel, John 7:35, reveals they are fellow heirs in Christ, part of the biological descendants of Abraham. The offspring or ‘seed’, by which the gentiles were prophesied to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah prophesied:

Zechariah 10:7-12 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yes, their children shall see it, and be glad; their hearts shall rejoice in the Lord. I will call for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall rear their children, then march into and occupy the holy land.

What happened: God called Ephraim and gathered them in Christ and then scattered them in the world to proclaim the Gospel to the nations, which Judah was obviously not part of. The plan for Ephraim is the source of the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. Proved by how the Western peoples have sent out missionaries and translated the Bible into most languages.


Isaiah 49:1-26 Listen to Me you peoples far distant,...... But Zion [the Land] said: The Lord has forsaken me, and my Lord has forgotten me…. The children which you will have, after you have lost the former ones, shall say to you: This place is too small for us, give us more space to dwell . Then you will say to yourself: Who has begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am alone and desolate, and where have they come from? Thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders, for they shall not be ashamed that have faith in Me.

Hebrews 12:22-24 But you have come unto mount Zion......
We Christians are the latter children of Zion, of Ephraim, the true Israelites.
Ref: Jerry Huerta
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Nowhere does Rev 20 say the martyrs of the GT are 'glorified', or made immortal. Rev 20:6 plainly states they may die again, but their second death has no power over them. That is; Because their names are Written in the Book of Life, they automatically receive immortality at the GWT Judgment.

Paul says that you; as a Christian believer, are an Israelite of God and Abrahams descendant by faith; Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16

Who you call Israel are only the Jewish people. Jesus took the Kingdom from them; Matthew 21:43
Some of them are now in a part if the holy Land, but in apostasy and many Prophesies tell of their virtual demise in the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, +

Replace the word 'National' with the word 'Spiritual', and the statement above would be correct.
Proved by Ephesians 2:11-18, where ethnicity has no bearing on who the people of God are.

I cannot see any verse that says humans can go to live in heaven. There is plenty of verses which say we must keep strong in our faith and endure until the end.
Those who refute and speak against the 'rapture to heaven' doctrine, do so out of concern for our fellow Christians, who have been lied to and deceived by their teachers.

There is no definitive scripture that says God intends to take His people up to heaven in these end times. There are, in fact quite a few that say such a thing is impossible: John 3:13, John 17:15, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, 1 Cor 1:7-9, 1 Cor 10:13, 1 Peter 4:12-19, Jeremiah 25:29, Proverbs 10:30 Psalms 10:30, Psalms 37:29, Revelation 2:25-26

We are aware of the problem of many Christians, in that the 'rapture' is the only teaching for the Church, before Jesus Returns. One American I spoke to said: The rapture is all I have ever been taught.

This is a very sad state of affairs, as this false theory has set up many to fall from their faith, when they expect to be raptured, doesn't happen.

Here is a quote from Art Katz, a messianic Jew: “Nothing has more disarmed the Church of the necessity for preparation, discipleship and maturity that can stand strong in faith, in these end times; than the mistaken idea of a rapture to heaven, so they won’t have to face the Lord’s wrath”.
What we are told to do when things get bad, is to 'Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved.' Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

Also, with the 'rapture' belief, you miss out on knowing the amazing promises of God, of how He will protect and bless His faithful people, as they live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land.

There are many prophesies telling us about God's plans, do not make the mistake of attributing His Blessings to the Jews. They have lost the Kingdom, Matthew 21:43, and we Christians, Jew and Gentile, are the inheritors of God's promises. Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Galatians 3:26-29, as followers of Jesus, the One true Israel, thru whom all the promises of God will be fulfilled. 2 Corinthians 1:20
FYI again, Rev.20:4-6 says the beheaded Trib. saints REIGN with Him ( Jesus Christ ) for 1000 years BEFORE the GWTJ happens in Rev.20:11-15! So don't tell me that they are NOT resurrected in their Immortal Glorious body just like His Glorious Immortal Flesh & bone resurrection body of Luke 24:39 as per Philippians 3:21! Case closed!
 
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