The Gathering of God's People

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Ever read or heard of the Declaration of Arbroath? The Scottish chiefs referred to their Israelite ancestry.

Zechariah 8:2-23 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for My holy Land, I am burning with jealousy for her. This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.

This is what the Lord Almighty says; Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem. Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?

I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.

These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbour. But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts. For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people. To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!

These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your forefathers made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid. This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.

These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace. In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favour of the Lord. In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
Ref; REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.



‘I am about to rescue My people…they will be My people and I will be their God’. We know from New Testament teaching, that the Lord’s people are every true Christian person, Jew or Gentile. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Rev 5:9-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16 Now I shall take thought for My sheep…I will rescue them from wherever they are scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness. I shall bring them home, to their own Land and make them prosper. Isaiah 60:4, Jeremiah 31:1-6, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:14

‘the Day of cloud and darkness’, is the Day of the Lord’s wrath, a CME sunstrike that will de-populate the entire holy Land area, also causing worldwide devastation. Isaiah 30:25-30

I have set every man against his neighbour’. This is the current situation in the Middle East.

‘Courage, do not lose heart’. This proves that we must pass through the terrible testing and trials of the forthcoming Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. A literal Day of fire from the sky, of earthquakes, storm winds and tsunamis. It will be a period of ‘cloud and darkness’, from the smoke and ash clouds that will envelope the earth. Zeph. 1:15, Matt.24:29,Joel 2:1-2

Peoples will come to Jerusalem to worship the Lord, in the new Temple’. From the context of this quote and from other prophesies, it is clear that this will happen before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial, worldwide reign. Ezekiel 43:4…the Shekinah Glory of God will come into the Temple by the East gate. And even though verse 23 mentions a Jew, as one who enjoys the Lord’s favour, we know from verse 13 and many other prophesies that Christians from every nation and language, Isaiah 56:1-8, will become citizens of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, the new nation formed after the judgement/punishment of fire has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 1:2-15


While there might be some itter-marriage influence in Gentile races, that does not make one a Jew or one of Israel. Most are mutts these days, anyway, and have a number of different backgrounds in their heritage.

As far as the Church going through the Tribulation, I see it as a non-issue due to the fact that the Church will be raptured prior to the Tribulation. You should give some thought to the arguments given to deny the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and the proof-texts given to support a Post-Tribulation Rapture. Both are not only weak but can be seen to deny a Post_Tribulation Rapture. If the Church is Raptured at the end, when Christ returns, then there is no one to generate the multitude that is destroyed with Satan at the end of the Tribulation.

The Seventieth Week was, and always will be a judgment upon Daniel's People. This judgment is meant to bring them to a righteous standing before God, which will be their being brought into relationship under the New Covenant.


God bless.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
FYI, The beheaded trib. saints are raised in a Glorified body to Reign with Him for the 1000 Years! It is the SURVIVING Trib. saints ( at His Post Trib. return, who refuse the 666 Mark and are not captured ) that are still in their mortal bodies that He gives prolonged life to ( like in OT days ) so they can repopulate the earth for those 1000 Years! They are Saved and it is ONLY their children that get born during those 1000 years that some will die because they are given 100 years to choose Jesus as their Savior and only the ones that refuse to do so will die as a mere youth at the age of 100! Zech.14:16 speaks about those survivors that refused the 666 Mark, called the sheep in Matt.25:32! So the beheaded Trib. saints will be in their Glorious body when they reign with Jesus for those 1000 years, as so stated in Rev.20:4-6! The surviving Trib. saints remain in their mortal bodies at His return so they can repopulate the earth! They ( the surviving Trib. saints ) will get their bodies Transformed to be like His ( Philippians 3:21 ) at the end of the millennium kingdom before the New Earth ( Isaiah 65:17 ) is created with no seas ( more land ) in Rev.21:1! Born again believers of today are His Bride an they will all get their Glorious bodies when 1 Thess.4:14-17 happens prior ( Pre-Trib. ) to the 7 year Trib. of Dan.9:27! The Two witnesses get theirs Mid-Trib. when they get caught up in the middle of Dan.9:27 as per Rev.11:3-12!


First, I am not sure why you would think I need to be told this. I agree with everything you say here with the exception of...

some will die because they are given 100 years to choose Jesus as their Savior and only the ones that refuse to do so will die as a mere youth at the age of 100!


You are reading into the text something that is not there, nor indicated anywhere else in Scripture.

Did you read the post this is a response to?


God bless.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
First, I am not sure why you would think I need to be told this. I agree with everything you say here with the exception of...




You are reading into the text something that is not there, nor indicated anywhere else in Scripture.

Did you read the post this is a response to?


God bless.
Saved survivors of the Trib. are the ONLY Mortals that enter the 1000 year Kingdom! Saved people will not die during the 1000 year kingdom reign! Only people that get born during that 1000 year Reign and refuse to accept Jesus as their Lord & savior will die at that early age of 100, which clearly means they are in FACT given 100 years to make their choice! I told you that because on a prior post of yours you stated that you were not SURE that the beheaded Trib. saints are in Glorious bodies during the Reign because some people die at the age of 100 as Isaiah states in scripture! The OT saints, Bride of Christ & beheaded Trib. saints are ALL in their Immortal Glorious bodies during that REIGN! The survivors of the Trib. that accepted Christ during the 7 years of Dan.9:27 will get their Glorious bodies at the END of the 1000 year Reign, as that 1000 years in their Mortal bodies allows for the repopulation of the earth for those 1000 Years! So I posted my reply to help you see so you don't have to still wonder if the beheaded Trib saints are in Mortal or Immortal bodies during that 1000 year kingdom reign! I never said you were wrong because you just said you were not sure and being not sure is not wrong! I wanted to help you to be sure on that one point that you were not sure about! Only unsaved born people will die at 100 as a mere youth! Thus the conclusion that they are give those 100 years to make their decision! During the last 100 years of the 1000 year kingdom, it will be the unsaved under 100 years old that side with Satan when he gets loosed from the Pit for his short season final rebellion! They all get tossed into the LOF as well as all of those dead unsaved in the Hell side of Hades in Rev.20:11-15! The Paradise side of Hades was emptied back in 33 AD when Christ rose from the dead! Those OT saved souls could not go to heaven before Jesus died on the cross!
 

Keraz

Active member
ZION - THE PROMISED LAND:

Isaiah 49:14-16 Zion says: the Lord has forsaken me. The Lord says: Can a woman forget her child? I shall never forget you. I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands. Your dwellings are always before My eyes.

Isaiah 49:17-18 Your people will hasten back, while your enemies depart. Look around, your children gather and come to you. They will be as ornaments in the Land.

Isaiah 49:19-21 Once the Land was desolate. Your enemies are now far away. The children born while the Land was occupied by foreigners will now say –this place is too small for us. Zion will say; who bore these children, when I was deserted, where did they come from?

Isaiah 49:22-23 The Lord says; I shall signal to the nations, they will carefully transport My people to their Promised Land. Kings will be your sponsors and great people will serve and honour you. You will know that I am the Lord, none who trust in Me will be disappointed.



That all this happens before the Return of Jesus in His glory, is made clear by verse 23 – ‘then you will know that I am the Lord ‘- AFTER His people have come back and settled into New Israel. Those who serve God will inherit the Land. They fulfil prophecies and prepare for the eventual Millennial reign of Jesus.

V 14 The Land of Israel, forsaken and desolate, after the next prophesied event, which will clear and cleanse the entire Middle East. Jeremiah 12:14

V 15-16 As a woman remembers her children, so does God remember Israel.

V 17 Judah has returned, but not the 10 Northern tribes. Many enemies remain today.

V 18 The Lords people regathered. Zechariah 9:16... they will sparkle like jewels in the Land.

V 19 The Land, regenerated and fruitful. Ezekiel 36:8 You, mountains of Israel, put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of your people is near.

V 20-21 The return of all the 12 tribes. Zechariah 10:10....I shall lead them into Gilead and Lebanon [Greater Israel] until there is no more room.

V 22 Jeremiah 16:15-17....I shall send hunters to look for My people, to bring them back.
V 23 Isaiah 66:20 From every nation, on every kind of transport – they will come.


Psalm 48:11-14 The hills of Zion rejoice, Judah’s cities are glad. Walk about the land, count the towers. Note the fortifications and buildings, so that you can tell about them to the coming generations.
For this God is our God, our guide and protector, now and forever.


Psalm 69:35-36 For God will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah.
The children of those who serve Him will inherit the Land and those who love his name will dwell there.


Isaiah 55:11-13 You will go out with joy and be led forth in peace....the Land will rejoice at your coming.
Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.

 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
Only people that get born during that 1000 year Reign and refuse to accept Jesus as their Lord & savior will die at that early age of 100, which clearly means they are in FACT given 100 years to make their choice!

So give me the Scripture supports this.

God bless.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
I told you that because on a prior post of yours you stated that you were not SURE that the beheaded Trib. saints are in Glorious bodies during the Reign because some people die at the age of 100 as Isaiah states in scripture!

I said I am not dogmatic and I reiterate that it is foolish to be dogmatic about it because we don't have enough Scripture to be .

Show me where we see dogmatically that those who died in the Tribulation that are raised are glorified.

Then show me how it is unreasonable to suggest that they may only be bodily resurrected because long life is an aspect of the Millennial Kingdom.


God bless.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
The OT saints, Bride of Christ & beheaded Trib. saints are ALL in their Immortal Glorious bodies during that REIGN!

Scripture?

The Scripture I have states only those who refused the Mark of the Beast are raised.

Old Testament Saints did not refuse the mark of the Beast. If you think they did, please give me the Scripture you think proves that.

Until then, stick to what Scripture actually states:


Revelation 20:4-6 King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


We don't have a group that was beheaded (died) for the witness of Jesus (which is obvious, because the Gospel of Christ was a Mystery and was not preached to men by men until the Comforter revealed it to His holy Apostles)...

...and a group that was beheaded for the Word of God...

...and a group that had not worshipped the beast or his image...

...and a group that refused to receive his mark upon their foreheads.


We have one group, those who died in the Tribulation.

So where is your Scripture?


God bless.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
The survivors of the Trib. that accepted Christ during the 7 years of Dan.9:27 will get their Glorious bodies at the END of the 1000 year Reign, as that 1000 years in their Mortal bodies allows for the repopulation of the earth for those 1000 Years!

And there is nothing in Scripture that teaches these (the Sheep of Matthew 24) will not die. They enter into this Kingdom mortal in the condition they were saved in. Sure, God can preserve every one of them through the Millennial Kingdom, and I don't have a problem thinking He will, but...

...you don't have Scripture by which you can dogmatically state that will be the case.


God bless.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
So I posted my reply to help you see so you don't have to still wonder if the beheaded Trib saints are in Mortal or Immortal bodies during that 1000 year kingdom reign!

You know, every sentence doesn't have to end with an exclamation point!

It just kind of makes you look like an excitable fellow that can't control your emotions!

It would look a lot better for you, and your posts if you just try to talk with me, instead of yelling at me!

Right!

So let's get to the point you make here!

Or try to make!

It doesn't help me to "see" that the Tribulation Martyrs are glorified!

In fact, I think they probably are, but I can't be dogmatic about it, because Scripture won't let me!

All I know is that they are resurrected, so the primary issue I sought to raise is that there are two distinctly different resurrections in Revelation 20!


God bless!
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
During the last 100 years of the 1000 year kingdom, it will be the unsaved under 100 years old that side with Satan when he gets loosed from the Pit for his short season final rebellion!

So where is your Scripture for these "100 years?"

I can suggest to you that Satan is only loosed for 75 days, and here is the Scripture I base that on:

Daniel 12:6-12 King James Version

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


Satan is bound at Christ's Return, immediately. This follows the Supper of the Great God, where those actually involved in the war are destroyed physically.

For thirty days (the time period added to the time, times, and half a time in v.11) I think the gathering to the Sheep and Goat Judgment take place.

The following 45 days will be, I believe (and I am pointing out this is speculation on my part, I am not trying to be dogmatic), the establishing of the Kingdom, at which time appointments will be made according to the rewards those who were born again during the Tribulation receive (i.e., "... have thou authority over ten cities, etc.).

So, if you suggest this time is 100 years, please provide the Scripture for it.


God bless.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
The Paradise side of Hades was emptied back in 33 AD when Christ rose from the dead! Those OT saved souls could not go to heaven before Jesus died on the cross!

I believe men still go to the Just side of Hades today (called Abraham's Bosom (and paradise in Jewish custom, I have heard)).

God has always provided three means of revelation to men: Creation, internal witness, and direct revelation.

Examples of each:


The testimony of Creation:


Romans 1:19-20 King James Version

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Internal Witness of God:


Romans 2:11-16 King James Version

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.



Direct Revelation, which is God giving revelation through men, whether that revelation was spoken or written. For this means of revelation, I will give one that covers both Old and New Testaments:


Hebrews 1 King James Version

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;



I would first ask, is not God consistent in His dealings with men? Why would we think that He is no longer giving the first two forms of revelation among men today?

Then I would ask, do we not ourselves charge Atheists that God has indeed revealed the reality of His existence to them and that they are rejecting that revelation? Of a truth, it can be said no man will stand before God and claim ignorance but will be judged just as Gentiles were under the Law, who performed the works of the Law written on their hearts.

Now, I will propose to you that even today God is providing revelation to those who have never heard the Gospel. Can we say there is no man that has heard, because the Gospel has gone around the world?

How about babies murdered in the womb? Will we leave them to systems of theology that say "Well, if your destined to be saved you will be and if not ..."

God forbid.

Rather, why not continue to view God as the merciful God He is, and understand that He will bestow the same grace he did to those murdered children that He showed to every Old Testament Saint that did not have the Mystery of the Gospel revealed to them?

And because God is now justifying men in an eternal context based on the very Gospel, how much more shall it be said that God will show mercy to those that are separated from Him?

And that is man's problem: he is separated from God.

And because he is separated from God he sins.

And because he sins he dies.

So, while I won't be dogmatic about it, I do think we have enough in explicit as well as implicit teaching and the principles God sets forth to think that Hades is still divided and that there is a side for those justified during their lifetimes, and the unjust, which you call "the Hell side of Hades."

But our goal is to see men come into eternal union while they are alive, so that they can go to be with Christ when they die physically. Those who might be justified in a temporal context will await the Great White Throne for their liberation, just as the Old Testament Saints awaited their liberation when Christ died for them.


God bless.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
I believe men still go to the Just side of Hades today (called Abraham's Bosom (and paradise in Jewish custom, I have heard)).

God has always provided three means of revelation to men: Creation, internal witness, and direct revelation.

Examples of each:


The testimony of Creation:


Romans 1:19-20 King James Version

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Internal Witness of God:


Romans 2:11-16 King James Version

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.



Direct Revelation, which is God giving revelation through men, whether that revelation was spoken or written. For this means of revelation, I will give one that covers both Old and New Testaments:


Hebrews 1 King James Version

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;



I would first ask, is not God consistent in His dealings with men? Why would we think that He is no longer giving the first two forms of revelation among men today?

Then I would ask, do we not ourselves charge Atheists that God has indeed revealed the reality of His existence to them and that they are rejecting that revelation? Of a truth, it can be said no man will stand before God and claim ignorance but will be judged just as Gentiles were under the Law, who performed the works of the Law written on their hearts.

Now, I will propose to you that even today God is providing revelation to those who have never heard the Gospel. Can we say there is no man that has heard, because the Gospel has gone around the world?

How about babies murdered in the womb? Will we leave them to systems of theology that say "Well, if your destined to be saved you will be and if not ..."

God forbid.

Rather, why not continue to view God as the merciful God He is, and understand that He will bestow the same grace he did to those murdered children that He showed to every Old Testament Saint that did not have the Mystery of the Gospel revealed to them?

And because God is now justifying men in an eternal context based on the very Gospel, how much more shall it be said that God will show mercy to those that are separated from Him?

And that is man's problem: he is separated from God.

And because he is separated from God he sins.

And because he sins he dies.

So, while I won't be dogmatic about it, I do think we have enough in explicit as well as implicit teaching and the principles God sets forth to think that Hades is still divided and that there is a side for those justified during their lifetimes, and the unjust, which you call "the Hell side of Hades."

But our goal is to see men come into eternal union while they are alive, so that they can go to be with Christ when they die physically. Those who might be justified in a temporal context will await the Great White Throne for their liberation, just as the Old Testament Saints awaited their liberation when Christ died for them.


God bless.
FYI in this current age of Grace ( Church age ), for a saved person ( born again - 1 Cor.6"19 ) who dies before 1 Thess.4:14-17 transpires - " to be absent from the body is to be PRESENT with the Lord ( Jesus Christ )" , who is currently in the 3rd Heaven ( not the Paradise side of Hades called Abraham bosom ) seated at His Father's right hand side on GOD's throne! Thus Church age saints go DIRECTLY to Heaven to be with the Lord upon their death! Thus you should no longer believe that the saved saints ( after Christ's resurrection from the dead ) still go to the Paradise side of Hades! GOD bless!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
I believe men still go to the Just side of Hades today (called Abraham's Bosom (and paradise in Jewish custom, I have heard)).

God has always provided three means of revelation to men: Creation, internal witness, and direct revelation.

Examples of each:


The testimony of Creation:


Romans 1:19-20 King James Version

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Internal Witness of God:


Romans 2:11-16 King James Version

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.



Direct Revelation, which is God giving revelation through men, whether that revelation was spoken or written. For this means of revelation, I will give one that covers both Old and New Testaments:


Hebrews 1 King James Version

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;



I would first ask, is not God consistent in His dealings with men? Why would we think that He is no longer giving the first two forms of revelation among men today?

Then I would ask, do we not ourselves charge Atheists that God has indeed revealed the reality of His existence to them and that they are rejecting that revelation? Of a truth, it can be said no man will stand before God and claim ignorance but will be judged just as Gentiles were under the Law, who performed the works of the Law written on their hearts.

Now, I will propose to you that even today God is providing revelation to those who have never heard the Gospel. Can we say there is no man that has heard, because the Gospel has gone around the world?

How about babies murdered in the womb? Will we leave them to systems of theology that say "Well, if your destined to be saved you will be and if not ..."

God forbid.

Rather, why not continue to view God as the merciful God He is, and understand that He will bestow the same grace he did to those murdered children that He showed to every Old Testament Saint that did not have the Mystery of the Gospel revealed to them?

And because God is now justifying men in an eternal context based on the very Gospel, how much more shall it be said that God will show mercy to those that are separated from Him?

And that is man's problem: he is separated from God.

And because he is separated from God he sins.

And because he sins he dies.

So, while I won't be dogmatic about it, I do think we have enough in explicit as well as implicit teaching and the principles God sets forth to think that Hades is still divided and that there is a side for those justified during their lifetimes, and the unjust, which you call "the Hell side of Hades."

But our goal is to see men come into eternal union while they are alive, so that they can go to be with Christ when they die physically. Those who might be justified in a temporal context will await the Great White Throne for their liberation, just as the Old Testament Saints awaited their liberation when Christ died for them.


God bless.

2 Corinthians 5:8
New King James Version

8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. ------------------------- The Lord is now in the 3rd Heaven seated at His Father's right hand side ( ) ! So for saved Bride ( church ) members, to be dead ( absent from the body ) is to be Present with the Lord in the 3rd Heaven and not in the paradise of Hades ( Abraham's Bosom ) that He Emptied during the 3 days His body was in the tomb ( He descended to Hades in Paradise where the thief on the cross on His right hand side went to be with Him for those 3 days - to then be taken to the 3rd Heaven to be present with the Lord, who is CURRENTLY there! Thus you should believe 2 Cor.5:8, that the dead believers are now in Heaven and Not the Paradise side of Hades! God Bless!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
You know, every sentence doesn't have to end with an exclamation point!

It just kind of makes you look like an excitable fellow that can't control your emotions!

It would look a lot better for you, and your posts if you just try to talk with me, instead of yelling at me!

Right!

So let's get to the point you make here!

Or try to make!

It doesn't help me to "see" that the Tribulation Martyrs are glorified!

In fact, I think they probably are, but I can't be dogmatic about it, because Scripture won't let me!

All I know is that they are resurrected, so the primary issue I sought to raise is that there are two distinctly different resurrections in Revelation 20!


God bless!
The Bride ( Rev.19:7+8 ) is in her immortal glorified flesh & bone body when she follows Him back to earth in Rev.19:14 for the 1000 year reign ( Rev.20:4-6 ). So there is no reason for Him to resurrect the beheaded Trib. saints in their mortal bodies because the surviving Trib. saints ( sheep ) are the ones that repopulate the earth for those 1000 years. The survivors that took the 666 mark are the Goats that get send to the Hell side of Hades to await the GWTJ of Rev.20:11-15 at the end of those 1000 years. Only the surviving Trib. saints and the children born during the 1000 year reign will be in mortal bodies! Jesus, His Bride & OT saints and Trib. saints will all be in Immortal glorified flesh & bone bodies as they reign together over the mortal ( sheep ) survivors.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
So where is your Scripture for these "100 years?"

I can suggest to you that Satan is only loosed for 75 days, and here is the Scripture I base that on:

Daniel 12:6-12 King James Version

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


Satan is bound at Christ's Return, immediately. This follows the Supper of the Great God, where those actually involved in the war are destroyed physically.

For thirty days (the time period added to the time, times, and half a time in v.11) I think the gathering to the Sheep and Goat Judgment take place.

The following 45 days will be, I believe (and I am pointing out this is speculation on my part, I am not trying to be dogmatic), the establishing of the Kingdom, at which time appointments will be made according to the rewards those who were born again during the Tribulation receive (i.e., "... have thou authority over ten cities, etc.).

So, if you suggest this time is 100 years, please provide the Scripture for it.


God bless.
The scripture that say those who die at the age of 100 are still just a mere youth and are accursed ( because they did not accept Jesus as their Savior before their 100th birthday ). So those 100 years came from Isaiah 65:20.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
So give me the Scripture supports this.

God bless.
Isaiah 65:20. If they accept Christ as their Savior before their 100th birthday then they will not be accursed and die, and will continue to live till the end of the 1000 years and then get their mortal bodies TRANSFORMED to be like Jesus' Immortal Glorious flesh & bone resurrection body of Luke 24:39, as per Philippians 3:21.
 
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S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
FYI in this current age of Grace ( Church age ), for a saved person ( born again - 1 Cor.6"19 ) who dies before 1 Thess.4:14-17 transpires - " to be absent from the body is to be PRESENT with the Lord ( Jesus Christ )" , who is currently in the 3rd Heaven ( not the Paradise side of Hades called Abraham bosom ) seated at His Father's right hand side on GOD's throne! Thus Church age saints go DIRECTLY to Heaven to be with the Lord upon their death! Thus you should no longer believe that the saved saints ( after Christ's resurrection from the dead ) still go to the Paradise side of Hades! GOD bless!

I don't: what I believe is that there will be people that will not have opportunity to turn to Christ who will die and not have been made one with Christ while they were alive. These will go to the Just side of Sheol/Hades.

One example would be unborn babies murdered in the womb.

Read the post again. Note especially the last statement:

But our goal is to see men come into eternal union while they are alive, so that they can go to be with Christ when they die physically. Those who might be justified in a temporal context will await the Great White Throne for their liberation, just as the Old Testament Saints awaited their liberation when Christ died for them.


God bless.
 

S.T.Ranger

Well-known member
The Bride ( Rev.19:7+8 ) is in her immortal glorified flesh & bone body when she follows Him back to earth in Rev.19:14 for the 1000 year reign ( Rev.20:4-6 ). So there is no reason for Him to resurrect the beheaded Trib. saints in their mortal bodies because the surviving Trib. saints ( sheep ) are the ones that repopulate the earth for those 1000 years. The survivors that took the 666 mark are the Goats that get send to the Hell side of Hades to await the GWTJ of Rev.20:11-15 at the end of those 1000 years. Only the surviving Trib. saints and the children born during the 1000 year reign will be in mortal bodies! Jesus, His Bride & OT saints and Trib. saints will all be in Immortal glorified flesh & bone bodies as they reign together over the mortal ( sheep ) survivors.

So show me the Scripture that teaches the Old Testament Saints will be glorified at the First Resurrection.


God bless.
 
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