The Gathering of God's People

FYI again, Rev.20:4-6 says the beheaded Trib. saints REIGN with Him
They do. but some of them, if not all will die again before the thousand years is over, That is proved by Rev 20:6, where it says; if they do die again, their second death cannot hold them - as their names are in the Book of life and their immortality is certain, as they stand before God in Judgment.

No one is made immortal or removed from the earth before the GWT Judgment.
It is impossible for there to be immortals in the Millennium, with mortals. That would be a very strange situation. Only King Jesus is immortal until the worthy people go into Eternity.
 
I would suggest that you cease being an accuser of the brethren.

I would suggest you cease teaching error. I have a mandate as a Christian Bible Student to correct error, and since you have not addressed the points I have made I will declare victory on those points.

;)

And by the way, if my correction is accusation, then what is this supposed to be:

You are so far in confusion and false theories that it is a waste of time to discuss Bible prophecy with you.



Your beliefs have been challenged; you reply with a screed of copy and scriptures that fail to prove your beliefs or to refute me.

You would have to actually address at least one of the points in order for a claim that you have challenged anything to be valid.

How about starting with this:


There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ, and it is those who are in Christ that are raptured.

I am a Gentile believer, living in the Time of the Gentiles, and I did not become a "Christian Israelite.

I am a son of God, not a son of Abraham.

Secondly, Israel remains, in her blinded state, the "Holy People." That is her designation in Scripture, why would that change now? It is a temporal designation, not an eternal designation. An eternal designation for the one new man would be he/she is a part of the One Fold. A holy people, but not the Holy People referred to when the context is dealing with National Israel.

Lastly, that National Israel is seen in the holy land has nothing to do with the Body of Christ being caught up. National Israel will be seen in the holy land to fulfill Prophecy. It is National Israel (Daniel's People) that the Seven-Year Tribulation pertains to foremost in Prophecy. It will be National Israel brought into the New Covenant through this time of judgment, according to Prophecy:


Hebrews 10:15-18 King James Version

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.



The attempt to dismiss and nullify Scripture has led to the false notion that we (Gentiles) become "spiritual Israel." Israel was an earthly picture of the Church, just as the Church is an earthly picture of the One FOld of the Eternal State.

The OP suggests there is Jew and Greek in the Body, whereas Scripture makes it clear there is not:


Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.




National Israel is a separate entity from the Church. We did not become Israel when we, as Gentiles, were saved. We will not become Israel in the Eternal State. Correcting that error will allow you to understand the Prophecy of Scripture better because then it will not be necessary to create a spiritualized understanding of some pretty basic information God has given us.


Continued...


 
With the Jews, they can only be re-grafted back into the Spiritual Tree, which is Jesus; by accepting Him as Saviour and Messiah. Very, very few Jews have done that and many prophesies tell of their virtual demise. Their ethnicity, which is doubtful anyway, is no help to them, as they have in fact; cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25

But the point is—they are Jews. A term that represents all of the Tribes.

The second point is that they are the natural branches, Gentiles are the wild branches.

Their ethnicity helps them very much:



Revelation 7 KJV

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.


2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,


3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.


6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.


7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.


8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.



The point is that they are of Israel in a National context.

These are members of Israel. They are described by tribe.

You aren't going to replace them with a "spiritual Israel." Men and women of faith run through the entirety of Scripture who were not of Israel. Those of faith among Israel are the ones to whom the promises are relevant to, thus they are "sons of Abraham," or "sons of faith." But they Israelites, and I gave you plenty of Scripture that shows that Paul did not cast off his heritage as a member of the Tribe of Benjamin, as well as his statement that God has not cast away Israel.

They will, as a Nation, be brought into relationship with the True Vine, the Son of God.


Continued...



 
So the idea of a 'rapture' of the Church, while the Jews get tribulated and are all saved when Jesus Returns, is false teaching and will not happen.

And the reason you do not address the points made is due to the fact that you can't refute those points.

Once again:


Revelation 20:7-9 King James Version

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.



If the Church is raptured at the end of the Tribulation, where do these come from?


Continued...


 
Romans 9 to 11 proves the broken off branches who remain in unbelief are not true Israelites:
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named”.

Again your words defeat what you try to teach.

I agree they are not true Israelites, but the fact is that there are true Israelites.

Understand your error?

Your second mistake is that you are in error concerning context: in view is very much a national distinction, not an individual distinction between members of Isaac's offspring. It is a contrast between the offspring of Jacob and Esau, and by extension a distinction between Isaac and Ishmael:


Romans 9:6-13 King James Version

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.



It is a direct lineage traced back to the root of the promise. Abraham's descendant:


Galatians 3:6-8 King James Version

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.



The offspring of Esau and Ishmael are not of Israel, and they are not children of promise.

So your statement,

Romans 9 to 11 proves the broken off branches who remain in unbelief are not true Israelites:
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named”.


... is error.


Continued...


 
This means that it is not the ethnic children who are God’s people, but the children of the promise, who have faith in Him, who are counted as Abrahams descendants.

Doesn't mean that at all. You are doing the same thing those who reject the Millennial Kingdom do, you are spiritualizing one text to extreme and ignoring what is said elsewhere.

Gentiles are seen to benefit from the promises of God because of faith, and it does not make them of Israel. That is because Israel maintains a National Identity throughout Scripture, even in the Tribulation:

So I will offer you the chance to actually challenge what I have said (and I will embolden what is added from the original post; all Scripture and comments will be the same):



Revelation 12 King James Version

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.



You do understand that the Child came from Israel, right?

You have noticed that it was the Christ-Child that Satan sought to destroy when He came the first time as well, right?

Do you concede that in view is the Nation of Israel, from whom came the Christ-Child?



6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


Again, Israel.


14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



Is it not "the seed of the woman" by which mankind's enemy would be overcome? Do you deny this is speaking of Israel and the fact that The Seed came from Israel as it was prophesied beginning in the Garden?


Notice that Israel is preserved in the wilderness?

Notice Satan is angry with the remnant?

Ever bother to notice that it is to Israel, Daniel's People, who are told to flee when the Abomination which makes desolate is in place?


Matthew 24:13-16 King James Version

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:



Now who is it that is told to persevere when the context is specific to the Tribulation?

Right! Israel.

Was Christ telling Gentiles what it is they should do, or was he telling Israel?


Matthew 15:24 KJV
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



Now, instead of boasting that you have challenged the points raised to you, how about actually challenging them with a response?


Continued...

 
The statement “For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” clearly denotes that some are ethnic Israel, the remnant of Romans 9:27. But the rest are shown as those who failed righteousness by attempting to keep the Law; verses 30-33.

Not all who are descended of Jacob are of Israel.

There is no "the rest," for all of Israel failed to keep the Law. Only One from Isael kept the Law, and did not violate the Covenant of Law, and that is the Promised Seed.

That ethnicity remains important is seen here:


Revelation 5:5 KJV
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.



Your doctrine is refuted by Scripture.

And the reason you want to erase Israel as a national entity is the same reason people want to erase the Millennial Kingdom: because it interferes with their doctrines of men.

You know there is a Millennial Kingdom, and you know that there are two resurrections found in Revelation 20. You know there is a destruction of a multitude of unbelievers after the Sheep and Goat judgment.

So how are you going to reconcile those events and teach them properly if you cling to the teachings of men that say national Israel is no longer a prophetic entity? Look at all the Scripture you have to take out of the Word of God in order to support their doctrine.

Do you really not see you are doing the same thing the Amils are doing?


Continued...


 
As indeed He says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.' And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.’
Hosea prophesied of the coming time the descendants of the ten northern tribes, the nation of Israel/Ephraim, would be restored as God’s covenant people once more, which is precisely what the inauguration of the New Covenant accomplishes.

You know, a verse and the translation it comes from would be helpful. A quote from Scripture should have them. It helps distinguish what you are saying from what God's Word has said.

The fascination with "the Ten Northern Tribes has led many astray. God is fully capable of preserving His people.


2 Chronicles 11:5-17 King James Version

5 And Rehoboam dwelt in Jerusalem, and built cities for defence in Judah.

6 He built even Bethlehem, and Etam, and Tekoa,

7 And Bethzur, and Shoco, and Adullam,

8 And Gath, and Mareshah, and Ziph,

9 And Adoraim, and Lachish, and Azekah,

10 And Zorah, and Aijalon, and Hebron, which are in Judah and in Benjamin fenced cities.

11 And he fortified the strong holds, and put captains in them, and store of victual, and of oil and wine.

12 And in every several city he put shields and spears, and made them exceeding strong, having Judah and Benjamin on his side.

13 And the priests and the Levites that were in all Israel resorted to him out of all their coasts.

14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the Lord:

15 And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.

16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the Lord God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the Lord God of their fathers.

17 So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon.



All tribes have been preserved, regardless of division in the kingdom. Regardless of dispersion:


James 1:1 KJV

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.



Continued...

 
Hebrews 8:7-8 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
The inauguration of the new covenant was promised by the blood of Christ, which also released Judah and the House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes from the marriage contract of the Old Covenant. Romans 7:1-4

How does this "challenge" the points that I made?

Note the National and Ethnic distinction made in the very Scripture you quote.

"The Houses of Israel and Judah" are Israel. The New Covenant was promised to them.

Gentile Inclusion was also promised:


Isaiah 49:6 KJV
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.



That has been God's plan all along. Note it is to the Tribes of Jacob (not Esau) that Restoration of the preserved of Israel would apply to, not "spiritual Israel."

Note God planned to also make the Messiah a light unto the Gentiles.

That is why there is neither Jew nor Greek/Gentile: salvation has always been meant for all families of the earth. It is error to try to eradicate one half of the Prophecy.


Isaiah 49:7-9 King James Version

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.



Men awaited the Redemption of Israel:


Luke 24:21 KJV
But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.



And Paul states it is still Prophecy when he speaks about National Israel:


Romans 11:25-27 King James Version

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



He isn't speaking about "spiritual Israel," he is speaking about the Nation:


Romans 11:28-29 King James Version

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.



Your teaching conflicts with God's Promise to Israel.

The Millennial Kingdom will have Israel in the land promised to them by God when He brings them, as a nation, under the New Covenant which He promised to bring them under.


Continued...


 
While Judah, for the most part, rejected Christ, Peter testifies of his ordained success with the elect exiles of the dispersion, Ephraim/Israel.

1 Peter1:1-12, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia and Bithynia, chosen in the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

"For the most part."


James 1 King James Version

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.




Paul, the Apostle to the people called Gentiles, but who are actually the scattered dispersion of Israel, John 7:35, reveals they are fellow heirs in Christ, part of the biological descendants of Abraham. The offspring or ‘seed’, by which the gentiles were prophesied to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah prophesied:

Zechariah 10:7-12 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yes, their children shall see it, and be glad; their hearts shall rejoice in the Lord. I will call for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall rear their children, then march into and occupy the holy land.

What happened: God called Ephraim and gathered them in Christ and then scattered them in the world to proclaim the Gospel to the nations, which Judah was obviously not part of. The plan for Ephraim is the source of the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. Proved by how the Western peoples have sent out missionaries and translated the Bible into most languages.


Isaiah 49:1-26 Listen to Me you peoples far distant,...... But Zion [the Land] said: The Lord has forsaken me, and my Lord has forgotten me…. The children which you will have, after you have lost the former ones, shall say to you: This place is too small for us, give us more space to dwell . Then you will say to yourself: Who has begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am alone and desolate, and where have they come from? Thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders, for they shall not be ashamed that have faith in Me.

Hebrews 12:22-24 But you have come unto mount Zion......
We Christians are the latter children of Zion, of Ephraim, the true Israelites.
Ref: Jerry Huerta


Perhaps you could ask Jerry to become a member. Then I might be interested in debating him.

;)


God bless.
 
Until it is understood who the real Israelites are, the whole end times scenario will be confusion and error.

Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It cannot be just those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.

The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behaviour, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10

It was always possible for foreigners to become an Israelite, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:

Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..

Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.

Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is accepted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18



So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:

1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry back to Abraham extant today.

2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.

3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17

Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20

So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel.

Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27

WE Christians are all true born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8



This truth that: all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. We will never go to live in heaven, but eventually heaven comes down to earth. Revelation 20:4

The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27. Romans 9:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4

It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26
Ref: logostelos.info
 
Until it is understood who the real Israelites are, the whole end times scenario will be confusion and error.

Agreed, however, we need not worry about identifying the Twelve Tribes of Israel, God will do that Himself when He sends out the 144,000 to be witnesses of Christ. This will begin in the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation, and will correlate with the 3 1/2 year ministry of the Two Witnesses.


So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:

1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry back to Abraham extant today.

2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.

3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17

1) Correct, it is Jacob we must be specific about. Israel consists of his children. Abraham had children through whom the promises were not given.

2) Correct, just as a Gentile cannot be converted and become a member of the Tribes of Israel through salvation. There is neither Jew nor Gentile in the Body. The 144,000 will be of those tribes, making a clear distinction between Jew and Gentile in that day. And this makes sense, since the Seventieth Week pertains to Daniel's People to begin with. THis is a time of judgment for them, and it will conclude in Israel's redemption.

3) I agree when "spiritual Israel" is used in a metaphorical context, but this does not nullify Israel's heritage or their part in the Tribulation. But I would disagree that men become "spiritual Israel" by obedience to His Laws.

That has nothing to do with The Faith of Christ.

We are saved by grace through faith, not by faith through grace.

It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land

Sorry, no: Israel will inherit the Holy Land as promised by God, and the One Fold will inherit the earth. As long as Israel is physical and part of this current Creation, it has already been promised by God to Israel. In an eternal context this applies to all who are of faith, the metaphorical "sons of Abraham," who are the sons of God.

In the Millennial Kingdom Israel will be in Israel. THat doesn't mean there will not be other sheep there as well:


Matthew 8:11 KJV
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.



Better than an inheritance on the earth is our inheritance in Heaven:


Revelation 22:14 KJV
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Revelation 21:23-24 King James Version

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.



"The Nations" are not the Ten Tribes of Israel, nor are they Israel, they are all families/nations of the earth.

It is just my view that New Jerusalem will bridge Heaven and Earth in a similar fashion that the Garden of Eden did. Man walked with God in that Garden, and lost that communion through sin. We will have direct physical relationship with God in the Eternal State, and that will far exceed the Garden's bridge between God and man.


God bless.
 
Better than an inheritance on the earth is our inheritance in Heaven:


Revelation 22:14 KJV
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
The new Jerusalem is on earth. Revelation 21:1-7
Humans, mortal of immortal, never go to heaven, after the Millennium. God and therefore heaven; come to the earth.
Sorry, no: Israel will inherit the Holy Land as promised by God,
The holy Land is our inheritance. Ephesians 1:10-14, Romans 8:16-18, Psalms 37:29, Ephesians 3:6...we Christians are joint heirs of all the Promises of God to all the people who believe in Him and keep the Commandments.
People from every tribe, race nation and language. But only a remnant of the Jews will survive. Romans 9:27
 
They do. but some of them, if not all will die again before the thousand years is over, That is proved by Rev 20:6, where it says; if they do die again, their second death cannot hold them - as their names are in the Book of life and their immortality is certain, as they stand before God in Judgment.

No one is made immortal or removed from the earth before the GWT Judgment.
It is impossible for there to be immortals in the Millennium, with mortals. That would be a very strange situation. Only King Jesus is immortal until the worthy people go into Eternity.
Still 100% WRONG as 1 Thess.4:14-17 Transpires First for the wedding of the Lamb ( Jesus Christ ) in Heaven before His post Trib. return to reign for 1000 years! They ( His Bride ) all go before the BEMA ( Judgment seat if Christ - 2 Cor.5:10 ) Judgment and NOT the GWTJ of Rev.20:11i15! 1 Cor.15:50-54 tells us at that TRUMP of 1 Thess.4:1-17 is when we get our Immortal bodies in that first resurrection! The 2nd resurrection is the GWTJ of Rev.20:11-15 or the 2nd death for all the unsaved that are in hell and get judged and tossed into the LOF ( the 2nd death ) along with hell! Case closed! So yes indeed the Bride is removed from earth to Heaven for the wedding and then she follows Him back to earth in Rev.19:14 to be at His side in Her Immortal body as He Reigns over the surviving sheep ( saved people in their mortal bodies that refused to take the 666 Mark ) of the 7 year trib.!
 
The new Jerusalem is on earth. Revelation 21:1-7
Humans, mortal of immortal, never go to heaven, after the Millennium. God and therefore heaven; come to the earth.

So, we go to Heaven now, but we won't be able to after this Creation passes away?

2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


New Jerusalem bridges Heaven and Earth. God is not going to forsake His realm, Heaven, to come to live with men on earth.


Revelation 21:22 King James Version

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.



In this mortal, in this creation, we have become the Temple of God. God is in us, right?

In that Creation, God is the Temple, and we will be in Him.

We will walk with God just as Adam did in the earthly picture of the Eternal State.

When Christ taught He was leaving, He said He was going to build an abode for us:


John 14 King James Version

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.



Where did Jesus go, and where is it that He is preparing an abode for us?

Where is the Father's House? Same place Christ went, to Heaven.

Access to New Jerusalem is access to God and His realm, Heaven.


The holy Land is our inheritance. Ephesians 1:10-14, Romans 8:16-18, Psalms 37:29, Ephesians 3:6...we Christians are joint heirs of all the Promises of God to all the people who believe in Him and keep the Commandments.
People from every tribe, race nation and language. But only a remnant of the Jews will survive. Romans 9:27


New Jerusalem is the inheritance of the One Fold.

Physical Israel was promised to the descendants of Abraham. And the promises are traced through Jacob.

We have to carefully distinguish between the temporal and the eternal when we interpret, or our conclusions are going to be in error.


God bless.
 
We have to carefully distinguish between the temporal and the eternal when we interpret, or our conclusions are going to be in error.
The physical and temporal world is now and until after the Millennium.
It is people who try to mix them up. making some to be immortal or glorified, before the final Judgment when the Book of Life is opened.

There is no such thing now as a physical Israel of God. It is a spiritual concept. But after the Lords Day of fiery wrath that will clear and cleanse all the holy land, then there will again be the Israelites of God living in their rightful Land. Psalms 37:29
Physical Israel was promised to the descendants of Abraham.
WE Christians are the descendants of Abraham, Galatians 3:26-29, and the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelites.
 
The physical and temporal world is now and until after the Millennium.
It is people who try to mix them up. making some to be immortal or glorified, before the final Judgment when the Book of Life is opened.

You are mixing them up also, lol.

I agree with the first part of the statement, but the fact is there will be those who are glorified prior to the Great White Throne Judgment:


Revelation 11:11-12 King James Version

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.



This is a rapture, and men have to be glorified to enter into Heaven bodily.

Just as Christ was glorified and caught up to Heaven:


Acts 1:9
King James Version

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.



It is very likely that the Tribulation Martyrs are glorified as well, because it is said they all live through the Millennial Kingdom:


Revelation 20:4 King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



I don't feel we can be dogmatic that they are glorified, though, because this...


Isaiah 65:20 KJV
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.



... teaches that men will long lives as they did when God created the world. The Regeneration (in the context of restoration of Creation (as contrasted with the Recreation of the Universe and the New Birth)) is a restoration of the current universe, where we will also see enmity between man and animals as well as enmity between animals end.

So it may be that they are only raised bodily as Lazarus was.

I think both possibilities are equally possible.


Continued...
 
There is no such thing now as a physical Israel of God. It is a spiritual concept.

On the contrary, you can't have a spiritual entity "blind:"


Romans 11 King James Version

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:




But after the Lords Day of fiery wrath that will clear and cleanse all the holy land, then there will again be the Israelites of God living in their rightful Land. Psalms 37:29


They have to still exist in order for their gathering of them to take place. I think that in part that gathering has already started, but the final gathering that fulfills many prophecies will take place at the Lord's Return.



WE Christians are the descendants of Abraham, Galatians 3:26-29, and the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelites.

Not me, I am a Scotch-Irish Gentile. I doubt very seriously that I am of the Semitic people.

While I understand the figurative use of "sons of Abraham," I also understand that being a son of Abraham rather than a son of God is like unto animal sacrifice in comparison with the Sacrifice of Christ.

Being a son of Abraham is a figurative description of one who has faith and trusts God to keep His promises. Being a son of God is a literal description of one who has been brought into eternal union with God through the reconciliatory Work of Christ.


God bless.
 
Not me, I am a Scotch-Irish Gentile. I doubt very seriously that I am of the Semitic people.
Ever read or heard of the Declaration of Arbroath? The Scottish chiefs referred to their Israelite ancestry.

Zechariah 8:2-23 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for My holy Land, I am burning with jealousy for her. This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.

This is what the Lord Almighty says; Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem. Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?

I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.

These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbour. But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts. For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people. To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!

These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your forefathers made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid. This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.

These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace. In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favour of the Lord. In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
Ref; REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.



‘I am about to rescue My people…they will be My people and I will be their God’. We know from New Testament teaching, that the Lord’s people are every true Christian person, Jew or Gentile. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Rev 5:9-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16 Now I shall take thought for My sheep…I will rescue them from wherever they are scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness. I shall bring them home, to their own Land and make them prosper. Isaiah 60:4, Jeremiah 31:1-6, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:14

‘the Day of cloud and darkness’, is the Day of the Lord’s wrath, a CME sunstrike that will de-populate the entire holy Land area, also causing worldwide devastation. Isaiah 30:25-30

I have set every man against his neighbour’. This is the current situation in the Middle East.

‘Courage, do not lose heart’. This proves that we must pass through the terrible testing and trials of the forthcoming Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. A literal Day of fire from the sky, of earthquakes, storm winds and tsunamis. It will be a period of ‘cloud and darkness’, from the smoke and ash clouds that will envelope the earth. Zeph. 1:15, Matt.24:29,Joel 2:1-2

Peoples will come to Jerusalem to worship the Lord, in the new Temple’. From the context of this quote and from other prophesies, it is clear that this will happen before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial, worldwide reign. Ezekiel 43:4…the Shekinah Glory of God will come into the Temple by the East gate. And even though verse 23 mentions a Jew, as one who enjoys the Lord’s favour, we know from verse 13 and many other prophesies that Christians from every nation and language, Isaiah 56:1-8, will become citizens of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, the new nation formed after the judgement/punishment of fire has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 1:2-15
 
On the contrary, you can't have a spiritual entity "blind:"


Romans 11 King James Version

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.



26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:






They have to still exist in order for their gathering of them to take place. I think that in part that gathering has already started, but the final gathering that fulfills many prophecies will take place at the Lord's Return.





Not me, I am a Scotch-Irish Gentile. I doubt very seriously that I am of the Semitic people.

While I understand the figurative use of "sons of Abraham," I also understand that being a son of Abraham rather than a son of God is like unto animal sacrifice in comparison with the Sacrifice of Christ.

Being a son of Abraham is a figurative description of one who has faith and trusts God to keep His promises. Being a son of God is a literal description of one who has been brought into eternal union with God through the reconciliatory Work of Christ.


God bless.
FYI, The beheaded trib. saints are raised in a Glorified body to Reign with Him for the 1000 Years! It is the SURVIVING Trib. saints ( at His Post Trib. return, who refuse the 666 Mark and are not captured ) that are still in their mortal bodies that He gives prolonged life to ( like in OT days ) so they can repopulate the earth for those 1000 Years! They are Saved and it is ONLY their children that get born during those 1000 years that some will die because they are given 100 years to choose Jesus as their Savior and only the ones that refuse to do so will die as a mere youth at the age of 100! Zech.14:16 speaks about those survivors that refused the 666 Mark, called the sheep in Matt.25:32! So the beheaded Trib. saints will be in their Glorious body when they reign with Jesus for those 1000 years, as so stated in Rev.20:4-6! The surviving Trib. saints remain in their mortal bodies at His return so they can repopulate the earth! They ( the surviving Trib. saints ) will get their bodies Transformed to be like His ( Philippians 3:21 ) at the end of the millennium kingdom before the New Earth ( Isaiah 65:17 ) is created with no seas ( more land ) in Rev.21:1! Born again believers of today are His Bride an they will all get their Glorious bodies when 1 Thess.4:14-17 happens prior ( Pre-Trib. ) to the 7 year Trib. of Dan.9:27! The Two witnesses get theirs Mid-Trib. when they get caught up in the middle of Dan.9:27 as per Rev.11:3-12!
 
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