The glories of atheism in action today.

SteveB

Well-known member
War Death range Date Combatants Location Notes Conquests of Cyrus the Great 100,000+ 549 BC–530 BC Persian Empire vs. various states Middle East Number given is the sum of all deaths in battle recorded by writers during this time period, does not take into account civilian deaths, the actual number may be much greater. Greco–Persian Wars 300,000+ 499 BC–449 BC Greek City-States vs. Persian Empire Greece Samnite Wars 33,500+ 343 BC–290 BC Roman Republic vs. Samnites Italy Number given is the sum of all deaths in battle recorded by Roman writers during this time period, does not take into account civilian deaths, the actual number may be much greater. Wars of Alexander the Great 142,000+ 336 BC–323 BC Macedonian Empire and other Greek City-States vs. various states Middle East / North Africa / Central Asia / India Number given is the sum of all deaths in battle during these wars recorded by Greek writers, does not take into account civilian deaths, the actual number may be much greater. Punic Wars 1,250,000–1,850,000 264 BC–146 BC Roman Republic vs. Carthaginian Empire Western Europe / North Africa First Punic War 400,000+ 264 BC–241 BC Roman Republic vs. Carthaginian Empire Southern Europe / North Africa – Part of the Punic Wars Second Punic War 770,000+ 218 BC–201 BC Roman Republic vs. Carthaginian Empire Western Europe / North Africa – Part of the Punic Wars Third Punic War 150,000–250,000 149 BC–146 BC Roman Republic vs. Carthaginian Empire Tunisia – Part of the Punic Wars Kalinga War 150,000–200,000 [citation needed] 262 BC–261 BC Maurya Empire vs. State of Kalinga India Qin's Wars of Unification 700,000+[citation needed] 230 BC–221 BC Qin state vs. Han, Zhao, Yan, Wei, Chu, Qi States China – Part of Warring States Period Cimbrian War 410,000–650,000 113 BC–101 BC Roman Republic vs. Cimbri and Teutones Western Europe – Part of the Germanic Wars Gallic Wars 1,000,000+ 58 BC–50 BC Roman Republic vs. Gallic tribes France Iceni Revolt 150,000+ 60–61 Roman Empire vs. Celtic tribes England Year is uncertain – Part of the Roman Conquest of Britain Jewish–Roman Wars 1,270,000-2,000,000 66–136 Roman Empire vs. Jews Middle East/North Africa Deaths caused by Roman attempt to permanently root out Judaism included. First Jewish–Roman War 250,000–1,100,000 66–73 Roman Empire vs. Jews Middle East – Part of Jewish–Roman Wars Kitos War 440,000+ 115–117 Roman Empire vs. Jews Southern Europe / North Africa – Also known as the Second Jewish–Roman War – Part of Jewish–Roman Wars Bar Kokhba Revolt 580,000 132–136 Roman Empire vs. Jews Middle East – Also known as the Third Jewish–Roman War – Part of Jewish–Roman Wars Gothic War (269) 320,000+ 269 Roman Empire vs. Goths Europe Claudius II defeated the Goths, of whom 320,000 were slain. This number is from the Historia Augusta. – Part of the Germanic Wars Probus's German War 400,000+ 277 Roman Empire vs. Germans Europe Emperor Probus informed the Senate that he had killed 400,000 Germans. From the Historia Augusta. – Part of the Germanic Wars Gothic War (376–382) 40,000+ 376–382 Roman Empire vs. Goths Eastern Europe – Part of the Germanic Wars Three Kingdoms War 36,000,000–40,000,000 184–280 Wei vs. Shu vs. Wu China – Academically, the period of the Three Kingdoms refers to the period between the foundation of the state of Wei in 220 and the conquest of the state of Wu by the Jin dynasty in 280. The earlier, "unofficial" part of the period, from 184 to 220, was marked by chaotic infighting between warlords in various parts of China. See: End of the Han Dynasty Yellow Turban Rebellion 3,000,000–7,000,000 184–205 Peasants vs. Eastern Han China China – Part of Three Kingdoms War Wars of the Sixteen Kingdoms 150,000+ [citation needed] 304–439 Northern Chinese States Northern China Number given is the sum of all deaths in battle recorded in this time period in battles between armies of the Sixteen Kingdoms, does not take into account civilian deaths, the actual number may be much greater. Hunnic Reclaims 165,000+ [citation needed] 395–453 Roman Empire vs. Hunnic Empire Europe Number given is the sum of all deaths in battle recorded by Roman writers during this time period, does not take into account civilian deaths, the actual number may be much greater.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
War Death range Date Combatants Location Notes Moorish Wars 5,000,000+ 534–548 Moors vs. Byzantine Empire North Africa Arab–Byzantine Wars 130,000+ 629–1050 Byzantine Empire and allies vs. Islamic Empire and Allies Middle East / North Africa / Southern Europe Number given is the sum of all deaths in battle recorded by writers during this time period, does not take into account civilian deaths, the actual number may be much greater. Reconquista 7,000,000-10,000,000 711–1492 Spanish and Portuguese states vs. Muslim states Iberian Peninsula Goguryeo–Sui War 300,000+ 598-614 Sui Dynasty China and Goguryeo Kingdom China, Korea An Lushan Rebellion 13,000,000–36,000,000 755–763 Tang Dynasty China and Islamic Empire vs. Yan state China – Also known as the An–Shi Rebellion Goryeo–Khitan Wars 90,000+ 993–1019 Liao Empire vs. Goryeo Kingdom Korea Lý–Song War 600,000+ 1075–1077 Song Empire vs. Dai Viet Kingdom under Lý dynasty China, Vietnam Crusades 1,000,000–3,000,000 1095–1291 Originally Byzantine Empire vs. Seljuq Empire, but evolved into Christians vs. Muslims. Europe / Middle East ("Holy Land") Albigensian Crusade 200,000–1,000,000 1208–1229 Papal States and France vs. Cathartic States France – Also known as the Cathar Crusade – Part of the Crusades Mongol conquests 30,000,000–40,000,000 1206–1368 Mongol Empire vs. Several Eurasian states Eurasia – Excludes the (up to) 200,000,000 deaths from the Black Death migration that may have been associated with the Mongol expansion Wars of Scottish Independence 60,000-150,000 1296–1357 Scotland vs. England Scotland / England Hundred Years' War 2,300,000–3,300,000 1337–1453 House of Valois vs. House of Plantagenet Western Europe Conquests of Timur 8,000,000–20,000,000 1370–1405 Timurid Empire vs. several middle eastern states Eurasia Wars of the Roses 35,000–50,000 1455–1487 House of Lancaster, House of Tudor, and allies vs. House of York and allies England / Wales
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Well, it's pretty clear that there is no way to organize the lists of wars on this forum without making it really complicated, so you're more than welcome to read the article on Wikipedia.

I recall posting this in a previous discussion, from several years ago, to prior to my coming to this forum in '12, on another forum.

The wars which were "Christian" wars, took place over the course of several hundreds of years, and killed less than 50 million people. As I recall, it was closer to a few million.

The wars of atheists, took place in the course of less than 100 years, and were upwards of 200-250 million people. The 150,000,000 is the conservative number.

So..... if you're looking to justify atheism, you're going to have to show me how that works.

The Christian world view is that 100% of the human race is infected by sin, and in need of a savior.

Even Jesus said that we're evil, but worth saving.

So, we know we're evil.

When we engaged in war in the past, it was against Islam. And the crusades took place after sitting by and watching Islamic jihad against Christian peoples for 400 years. Someone finally realized that sitting by doing nothing wasn't helpful. Did criminal activity occur in the middle of those wars ...... I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised. We recognize that the human race is evil, and God places infinite value and worth on the human race, so he gave his only begotten son to die in our place.

So, by all means, you go right ahead and work through this.

If I'm supposed to feel ashamed of what took place in the past, and then take that as proof that YHVH is not real, or christianity is to blame for the human state, then you have not paid attention to human history.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
What I've paid attention to is the fact that you refuse even to try demonstrating that any of these people were killed in the name of atheism. Your pathetic attribution is nothing more than online self-gratification, and is dishonest to boot.

Pretty much exactly what this forum has come to expect from you, so congratulations for being consistent.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Why don't you ask the 150,000,000+ who were slaughtered by their atheist governments.
Because I'm asking you. How many of those "atheist run governments" were communist dictatorships and how many were secular democracies?
 

Komodo

Active member





The difference between language and sarcasm.

STEVE: It was quoteth, not quoth. In fact, quoth is a sarcastic use of the word quoteth.
ME: No, "quoth" simply means "said." "Quoteth" is an entirely different word.

Steve then "responds" by citing two dictionaries, which explicitly and unambiguously show... that "Quoth" simply means "said," and "Quoteth" is an entirely different word. As I'd stated.

I'm not making this up. Steve is really, actually pretending that he has somehow vindicated his claim that "quoth is a sarcastic use of the word quoteth," and that I was wrong to correct this and say that "quoth" simply means "said," by providing dictionary confirmation that "quoth" simply means "said."

Steve's ridiculous bluffing has now reached Cargo Cult levels. The Cargo Cultists thought that if they imitated the shape of WWII radios, they could use these radios to call for the delivery of goods, as the soldiers did when they were on the island. Steve apparently thinks that if he imitates the shape of a refutation (by providing official-looking links to dictionaries), he can use this to refute his opponents, even if the links he is using entirely support what that opponent said, and entirely refute what Steve has said.

I know that according to standard accounts of science and knowledge, one cannot ultimately prove a theory, a theory can only resist being disproven for a time, but I think we have to make an exception here; @Nouveau's proposition, that Steve will never either admit that a claim of his was erroneous, nor provide a rational defense of it, can be regarded as proven truth.
 

Algor

Active member
What's the phrase some of you like to use.... the beatings will continue until you agree with us....
Yeah. This is exactly what the atheist authorities are doing to Jesus followers in China.

So, my hat's off to you for your promotion of such violence against humanity in the communist country of China.


The Chinese Communist Party, which embraces atheism, exercises tight controls over any form of religious practice among its citizens. State security police and religious affairs bureau officials frequently raid unofficial "house churches" that aren't members of the CCP-backed Three-Self Patriotic Association, although member churches have also been targeted at times. The CCP under Xi Jinping regards Christianity as a dangerous foreign import, with party documents warning against the "infiltration of Western hostile forces" in the form of religion. Li said he was held in a windowless room for nearly 10 months, during which time he was beaten, verbally abused and "mentally tortured" by staff, eventually resorting to self-harm by throwing himself against a wall. His account is chillingly similar to those of former inmates of "transformation" camps in the northwestern region of Xinjiang. "They use really underhand methods," Li said. "They threaten, insult and intimidate you. These were United Front officials, men, women, sometimes unidentified, usually in plain clothes. The police turn a blind eye to this," he said. "You have to accept the statement they prepare for you," he said. "If you refuse, you will be seen as having a bad attitude and they will keep you in detention and keep on beating you." Basement brainwashing sessions Li said most of his fellow inmates were also people who had been released on bail during criminal detention for taking part in church-related activities. Most hadn't done anything that could trigger any criminal prosecution, so police sent them to the "transformation" facilities instead, Li said. "They were using brainwashing methods on those of us who were on bail from the detention center," he said. "It was in a secret location, in a basement." "There were two plainclothes officers in my room, and a uniformed officer was in another room," Li said. "There were no windows, no ventilation and no time allowed outside," he said. "I was given just two meals a day, which were brought to the room by a designated person." Inmates who refused to "admit their mistakes" were held in solitary confinement for prolonged periods. "There is no time limit for the brainwashing process," he said. "I don’t know the longest time anyone has been held there, but I was detained for eight or nine months." "You can't see the sun, so you lose all no concept of time."​
Are you seriously implicating the atheists here in the enabling of atrocities by the Chinese government, BECAUSE we are atheists? Dude.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
What's the phrase some of you like to use.... the beatings will continue until you agree with us....
Yeah. This is exactly what the atheist authorities are doing to Jesus followers in China.
The atheist heathen never learn. Persecution makes the strong believers stronger.
So we paid a Chinese person to come to our church and tape Bible lessons in Mandarin. He carried the lessons back home on DVDs and copied them. Easier to copy than a Bible. The underground churches in China are on fire for God.
 

Tiburon

Member
an interesting concept..... but history has shown what happens when the numbers of practitioners of any given ideology increases beyond a certain percentage.
What is the percentage? Does this include Christianity? How about Democracy?
 

sbell

Active member
Why is the government's job, as defined by God to fight against evil taken out of context?
Because the context of the conversation isn't the governments job, it's the Christian's role in that government, and if that passage supports "Just" War Theory, and if that passage supports the Christian being involved in any war, even a "Just" War. If Christians want to follow the Prince of Peace, I'm not sure how they can do it while fighting wars, and I don't think Romans 12 or 13 define the Christian's role in waging war. I would argue the Christian should not be particularly involved in the affairs of the governments of earthly kingdoms, because their kingdom is not of this world, and the one they supposedly follow seemed to have no interest in being involved in earthly government.
Yep. If you treat me like crap, I'm to show you kindness and goodness.... up to the point where I can no longer tolerate your asinine behavior.
"Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?"
Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but up to the point where you can no longer tolerate their asinine behavior.
Rom 12:17-21 WEB Repay no one evil for evil. Respect what is honorable in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as it is up to you, be at peace with all men.19 Don’t seek revenge yourselves, beloved, but give place to God’s wrath. For it is written, “Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord.” Deu 32:35 20 Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in doing so, you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Pro 25:21-22 21 Don’t be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

If you're actually going to talk about other people taking passages out of context, you shouldn't do it yourself. It makes you look bad.

No. I am not to take revenge. God knows much better how to kick the crap out of people who treat his family like crap. I find it curious however that he would say that I'm to live peaceably with others, in so far as it depends on me.

So, picking up where you left off,

If it is possible, as much as it is up to you, be at peace with all men.


Romans 13 1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who exist are ordained by God. 2 Therefore he who resists the authority withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the authority, 4 for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn’t bear the sword in vain; for he is a servant of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil. 5 Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are servants of God’s service, continually doing this very thing. 7 Therefore give everyone what you owe: if you owe taxes, pay taxes; if customs, then customs; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.




Show me how that works.

It works by being willing die to follow and obey your leader, even death on a cross.

I'm not the one who is having a problem here. Sounds to me however that you think it's a good thing to let tyranny thrive, and destroy human beings without any justification.
Rather interesting.
I don't think it's a good thing. I just don't understand how you can call yourself a follower of Jesus, and claim the Bible as your instruction manual but be so willing to blow any other human's brains out. If God doesn't want tyranny to thrive, he is more than capable of accomplishing it with out your involvement, and unless he gives you a clear command to go to war and be in a position to take the life of an image bearer, I would err on the side of caution and peace making so you don't risk finding your self before the judgement seat hearing the words "Depart from me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you". Many think they are doing Jesus' work, but he's quite clear that their are many that think they are following him but are deceived. If you want to follow the Prince of Peace, the one who died for his enemies, you may seriously want to consider how willing you are to kill your enemy instead of dying for them.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Are you seriously implicating the atheists here in the enabling of atrocities by the Chinese government, BECAUSE we are atheists? Dude.
This is pretty much par-for-the-course when it comes to characterizing atheists and atheism around here. Just saying...
 

Algor

Active member
This is pretty much par-for-the-course when it comes to characterizing atheists and atheism around here. Just saying...
I'd just like him to say it straight, without all the blather.

Something like : "You, Algor, are complicit in the persecution of Chinese Christians, because you are an atheist. "

If that's what he's saying, he should say it straight out. If that isn't what he's saying, a brief explanation of what he IS saying would seem to be in order.

I mean, I'd hardly take offense. But I think it is reasonable to ask for some clarity here.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
I'd just like him to say it straight, without all the blather.

Something like : "You, Algor, are complicit in the persecution of Chinese Christians, because you are an atheist. "

If that's what he's saying, he should say it straight out. If that isn't what he's saying, a brief explanation of what he IS saying would seem to be in order.

I mean, I'd hardly take offense. But I think it is reasonable to ask for some clarity here.
It *is* reasonable, yes. You wont get any, but it's still reasonable.
 

Furion

Well-known member
Are you seriously implicating the atheists here in the enabling of atrocities by the Chinese government, BECAUSE we are atheists? Dude.
Apparently you miss all the atheists saying christianity has ruined the world and they are on a mission to destroy it.....somehow.

Atheists are so disappointing, and predictable.
 

TeabagSalad

Active member
Apparently you miss all the atheists saying christianity has ruined the world and they are on a mission to destroy it.....somehow.

Atheists are so disappointing, and predictable.

If there are so many of them you should be able to provide a significant number of examples...should be easy.
 

Furion

Well-known member
If there are so many of them you should be able to provide a significant number of examples...should be easy.
This is a test. Another thing predictable is you cannot honestly admit it when confronted.

The context of my statement is this glorious atheist hole on CARM.

Tell me salad boy, what say you about christianity? I've read your words, very hostile and condemning.

You think christianity is for the ignorant masses, amirite?

You would like to see christianity discredited, and relegated to a few clingers, amirite? Not infecting people with the religion disease, yes?

This is such a pathetic exercise, the answers are clear for those not defensive to the highest.

Never mind the outright haters like tree planter and others, at least they are honest with their opinions. I like people who are up front, not defensive subdermal irritant agitators.

I don't see you as capable of being honest, sorry.
 
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