The gods of Psalm 82

dberrie2020

Super Member
Yitoz said:
Anyone who wants to identify themselves with the elohim in Psalm 82 have put themselves under the judgment and curse of Yahweh...

That's real interesting, especially since it is God Himself who took His place in the midst of those gods:

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
 
Read on and you will see, but apparently can't admit, that there was a specific purpose for that meeting. What does 'you shall die like men' refer to if mormon dogma teaches that when men die they can become gods, angels, or other ministering spirits? Are these gods going to have to die again or become flesh again? It would be logical that some members of the council were not in trouble the same as those who were destined to 'die like men.' Please explain how those gods will die like men or why this council was called to judge their unrighteous works? That would mean that all mormon gods in embryo could possibly be called before a similar council in the future and also be sentenced to 'die like men.'
 
Read on and you will see, but apparently can't admit, that there was a specific purpose for that meeting. What does 'you shall die like men' refer to if mormon dogma teaches that when men die they can become gods, angels, or other ministering spirits? Are these gods going to have to die again or become flesh again? It would be logical that some members of the council were not in trouble the same as those who were destined to 'die like men.' Please explain how those gods will die like men or why this council was called to judge their unrighteous works? That would mean that all mormon gods in embryo could possibly be called before a similar council in the future and also be sentenced to 'die like men.'
Shame on you, Yitoz, finding a weakness in the Mormon argument about these verses! :) This subject has been done to death on here. I have asked and asked questions of Mormons about them but never received any real answers. For instance, IF these are real gods, then why are they judging the people unjustly? Wouldn't that make them sinners and demons, like Satan and his ilk? And how would people contact them to render judgments for people? Why would these "gods" neglect widows and orphans and favor the wicked?

The most logical way to take these verses is that "gods" here is used in irony, referring to judges and rulers who represent God in their judgments and have great power over the people. Here is where we have debated this in the past:

 
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Here, Yitoz, is where I found Isaiah verses that are similar in tone and theme to Ps. 82:

Here we go, from Isaiah 1, NASB:

Zion Corrupted, to Be Redeemed

21 How the faithful city has become a harlot,
She who was full of justice!
Righteousness once lodged in her,
But now murderers.
22 Your silver has become dross,
Your drink diluted with water.
23 Your rulers are rebels
And companions of thieves.
Everyone loves a bribe
And chases after rewards.
They do not [h]defend the orphan,
Nor does the widow’s plea come before them.

--------------------

Here is more from Isaiah 3:


God Will Judge

13 The Lord arises to contend,
And stands to judge the people.
14 The Lord enters into judgment with the elders and princes of His people,

“It is you who have devoured the vineyard;
The plunder of the poor is in your houses.
15 “What do you mean by crushing My people
And grinding the face of the poor?”
Declares the Lord [o]

Again, note the similarity to Ps. 82. Especially the bolded verses.

------------------------

Now this:

From Isaiah 5:


Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes

And clever in their own sight!

22 Woe to those who are heroes in drinking wine

And valiant men in mixing strong drink,

23 Who justify the wicked for a bribe,

And take away the rights of the ones who are in the right!

--------------------

And one more, from Isaiah 10:


Woe to those who enact evil statutes

And to those who constantly record [a]unjust decisions,

2 So as to deprive the needy of justice

And rob the poor of My people of their rights,

So that widows may be their spoil

And that they may plunder the [c]orphans.

3 Now what will you do in the day of punishment,

And in the devastation which will come from afar?




As I wrote, this subject has been done to death. Mormons love to quote Ps. 82, while ignoring all of the many verses, in both the OT and NT, that say there is ONLY one true God and that God is One. But that is what cultists do--they selectively quote certain verses that they think backs up their false beliefs, while ignoring all of the other verses that prove that their interpretation is false.
 
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Read on and you will see, but apparently can't admit, that there was a specific purpose for that meeting. What does 'you shall die like men' refer to if mormon dogma teaches that when men die they can become gods, angels, or other ministering spirits?

It wasn't about becoming gods--they were already gods:

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

Are these gods going to have to die again or become flesh again?

When did they die the first time?

It would be logical that some members of the council were not in trouble the same as those who were destined to 'die like men.'

I agree--especially since our God was part of that council.

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

Please explain how those gods will die like men

I suppose the same way, in principle--as God the Son died.

or why this council was called to judge their unrighteous works?

The reasons are laid out in Psalm 82.

That would mean that all mormon gods in embryo could possibly be called before a similar council in the future and also be sentenced to 'die like men.'

I don't know of any example where someone who had already died a mortal death was sentenced to die a mortal death again. Psalm 82 does not even give a hint of that scenario, IMO.
 
Here, Yitoz, is where I found Isaiah verses that are similar in tone and them to Ps. 82:

As I wrote, this subject has been done to death. Mormons love to quote Ps. 82, while ignoring all of the many verses, in both the OT and NT, that say there is ONLY one true God and that God is One. But that is what cultists do--they selectively quote certain verses that they think backs up their false beliefs, while ignoring all of the other verses that prove that their interpretation is false.

I have asked you--and the critics here--to explain why the NT separates out God the Son from the "one God" of the Biblical NT--crickets:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Anyone care to address this? I have a separate thread which addresses this--crickets.
 
It wasn't about becoming gods--they were already gods:

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:



When did they die the first time?



I agree--especially since our God was part of that council.

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:



I suppose the same way, in principle--as God the Son died.



The reasons are laid out in Psalm 82.



I don't know of any example where someone who had already died a mortal death was sentenced to die a mortal death again. Psalm 82 does not even give a hint of that scenario, IMO.
Sigh ... you always seem to miss the point or purposely avoid the point. Since you refuse to address the verses in their proper context than there is little use in having a discussion with you. You apparently refuse to see the difference between apotheosis and theosis simply because it doesn't fit the narratives of joseph. Both sad and tragic. In the future I will refrain from direct discussions with mormons and continue having a dialogue with those who believe in the true and living God taught in the OT and NT. It's funny that so many of us from different religious sects can agree that the God of the Bible is self-existent and not just some johnny-come-lately like the mormon gods, who had to learn to become gods as some type lesser being on some other world. IMO, that dogma is sick, evil, and twisted.
 
Sigh ... you always seem to miss the point or purposely avoid the point. Since you refuse to address the verses in their proper context than there is little use in having a discussion with you. You apparently refuse to see the difference between apotheosis and theosis simply because it doesn't fit the narratives of joseph. Both sad and tragic. In the future I will refrain from direct discussions with mormons and continue having a dialogue with those who believe in the true and living God taught in the OT and NT. It's funny that so many of us from different religious sects can agree that the God of the Bible is self-existent and not just some johnny-come-lately like the mormon gods, who had to learn to become gods as some type lesser being on some other world. IMO, that dogma is sick, evil, and twisted.

LOL!!! Yitoz--you have more taint so!!! and straw man rationalizations than a wizard of oz scarecrow.

Care to address the scriptures themselves?

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
 
Sigh ... you always seem to miss the point or purposely avoid the point. Since you refuse to address the verses in their proper context than there is little use in having a discussion with you. You apparently refuse to see the difference between apotheosis and theosis simply because it doesn't fit the narratives of joseph. Both sad and tragic. In the future I will refrain from direct discussions with mormons and continue having a dialogue with those who believe in the true and living God taught in the OT and NT. It's funny that so many of us from different religious sects can agree that the God of the Bible is self-existent and not just some johnny-come-lately like the mormon gods, who had to learn to become gods as some type lesser being on some other world. IMO, that dogma is sick, evil, and twisted.
Oh, you noticed! I won't even respond to a certain poster anymore, or read the posts, since we have been over this subject and others umpteen times on here and all we ever got was in the first 5 debate tactics listed in my signature. Others on here will attest that, before God, I am telling the truth. Ask Maggie, organgrinder, Janice....and Theo1689, if he ever comes back on here.
 
Oh, you noticed! I won't even respond to a certain poster anymore, or read the posts, since we have been over this subject and others umpteen times on here and all we ever got was in the first 5 debate tactics listed in my signature. Others on here will attest that, before God, I am telling the truth. Ask Maggie, organgrinder, Janice....and Theo1689, if he ever comes back on here.

Folks--you go back and check it yourself--this thread is full of--- I did this, I did that, yada-yada, taint so!!!

Isn't it time we have an answer to the scriptures themselves?

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is
but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Where are the scriptures of the critics here? Where are their answers to the scriptures?
 
That's real interesting, especially since it is God Himself who took His place in the midst of those gods:

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
James Talmage, a Mormon Apostle, said Psalm 82:6 is not about becoming gods.

"In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods.' To this scripture the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title 'gods.' Compare the similar appellation applied to Moses (Exo. 4:16; 7:1). Jesus Christ possessed divine authorization, not through the word of God transmitted to Him by man, but as an inherent attribute. The inconsistency of calling human judges 'gods,' and of ascribing blasphemy to the Christ who called Himself the Son of God, would have been apparent to the Jews but for their sin-darkened minds." (James Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 501). -- Mormons like dberrie2020 often quote Psalm 82:6 which Jesus quoted in John 10:30-34 to show that we can become gods. Rather than them believing the truth from a Christian, perhaps they will believe it from their own apostle.
 
James Talmage, a Mormon Apostle, said Psalm 82:6 is not about becoming gods.

"In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods.' To this scripture the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title 'gods.' Compare the similar appellation applied to Moses (Exo. 4:16; 7:1). Jesus Christ possessed divine authorization, not through the word of God transmitted to Him by man, but as an inherent attribute. The inconsistency of calling human judges 'gods,' and of ascribing blasphemy to the Christ who called Himself the Son of God, would have been apparent to the Jews but for their sin-darkened minds." (James Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 501). -- Mormons like dberrie2020 often quote Psalm 82:6 which Jesus quoted in John 10:30-34 to show that we can become gods. Rather than them believing the truth from a Christian, perhaps they will believe it from their own apostle.
Two points here:

1) I haven't ever quoted Psalm82 to show we can become gods--neither do I believe the gods of Psalm82 were human, nor ever had been. My point in quoting Psalm82 is to show other gods do, in fact-- exist.

2) Where do you find anything within your above quote--where James Talmage testifies man can't become gods?
 
Shame on you, Yitoz, finding a weakness in the Mormon argument about these verses! :) This subject has been done to death on here. I have asked and asked questions of Mormons about them but never received any real answers. For instance, IF these are real gods, then why are they judging the people unjustly? Wouldn't that make them sinners and demons, like Satan and his ilk? And how would people contact them to render judgments for people? Why would these "gods" neglect widows and orphans and favor the wicked?

The most logical way to take these verses is that "gods" here is used in irony, referring to judges and rulers who represent God in their judgments and have great power over the people. Here is where we have debated this in the past:

Sigh ... you always seem to miss the point or purposely avoid the point. Since you refuse to address the verses in their proper context than there is little use in having a discussion with you. You apparently refuse to see the difference between apotheosis and theosis simply because it doesn't fit the narratives of joseph. Both sad and tragic. In the future I will refrain from direct discussions with mormons and continue having a dialogue with those who believe in the true and living God taught in the OT and NT. It's funny that so many of us from different religious sects can agree that the God of the Bible is self-existent and not just some johnny-come-lately like the mormon gods, who had to learn to become gods as some type lesser being on some other world. IMO, that dogma is sick, evil, and twisted.
Oh, you noticed! I won't even respond to a certain poster anymore, or read the posts, since we have been over this subject and others umpteen times on here and all we ever got was in the first 5 debate tactics listed in my signature. Others on here will attest that, before God, I am telling the truth. Ask Maggie, organgrinder, Janice....and Theo1689, if he ever comes back on here.

These are some of the responses on this page alone. I challenge anyone to find where the critics have engaged any of the posted scriptures--or posted any Biblical scripture themselves.

Their posts are full of yada-yada and straw men accusations--but absent of any meaningful engagement of the posted scriptures--or use of Biblical scriptures.
 
Oh, you noticed! I won't even respond to a certain poster anymore, or read the posts, since we have been over this subject and others umpteen times on here and all we ever got was in the first 5 debate tactics listed in my signature. Others on here will attest that, before God, I am telling the truth. Ask Maggie, organgrinder, Janice....and Theo1689, if he ever comes back on here.
It's a waste of time for those of us that are attempting to discuss valid exegesis and hermeneutics. Hello wall! Mormonism is not known for having reliable and accurate bible scholars that know how to translate the languages in which the texts have been found written in like the DSS, etc. It's all junk scholarship in comparison.
 
It's a waste of time for those of us that are attempting to discuss valid exegesis and hermeneutics. Hello wall! Mormonism is not known for having reliable and accurate bible scholars that know how to translate the languages in which the texts have been found written in like the DSS, etc. It's all junk scholarship in comparison.

More yada-yada. I post a page full of Biblical testimony--the critics respond with this kind of hooey.

Here are the scriptures---please don't confuse thumbing one's nose at them with engaging them.

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is
but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
 
It's a waste of time for those of us that are attempting to discuss valid exegesis and hermeneutics.

LOL!!! Of course!!! Valid exegesis is denying the Biblical scriptures, refusing to use them, and placing your emphasis on straw men and yada-yada.

Yeah, right.

When you get ready to use the Biblical scriptures--please let me know.

2 Timothy 3:15-17---King James Version
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
 
It's a waste of time for those of us that are attempting to discuss valid exegesis and hermeneutics.

Psalm 82

2 How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked?

Bad gods, bad, bad gods. If those gods are mormons: bad mormon gods bad, bad mormon gods,

5b All the foundations of the earth [the fundamental principles of the administration of justice] are shaken. [bad, bad gods]
6 I said, “You are gods; Indeed, all of you are sons of the Most High.
7 “Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.”

Bad gods; bad, bad gods all bad gods will die like men; all men will die; all mormons will die, I will die. Don't be bad.

It's a waste of time for those of us that are attempting to discuss valid exegesis and hermeneutics.
 
It's a waste of time for those of us that are attempting to discuss valid exegesis and hermeneutics.

Psalm 82

2 How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked?

Bad gods, bad, bad gods. If those gods are mormons: bad mormon gods bad, bad mormon gods,

5b All the foundations of the earth [the fundamental principles of the administration of justice] are shaken. [bad, bad gods]
6 I said, “You are gods; Indeed, all of you are sons of the Most High.
7 “Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.”

Bad gods; bad, bad gods all bad gods will die like men; all men will die; all mormons will die, I will die. Don't be bad.

It's a waste of time for those of us that are attempting to discuss valid exegesis and hermeneutics.

To be sure--I laughed for a while when I read your post. You do have a great sense of humor--and I like that.

Merry Christmas to you.
 
To be sure--I laughed for a while when I read your post. You do have a great sense of humor--and I like that.

Merry Christmas to you.
Moses 1:6
6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.
 
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