The gospel in Genesis.

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Bud, you got your feathers all ruffled.
I knew this would happen.

Can we start over? And have a good back and forth discussion without the Calvinism judging?
It would go a lot smoother.

trying to help
Lol, yep They we’re ruffled by you making an untrue statement, justifying your untrue statement, and acting just like I figured you would. No I don’t care to discuss scripture with anyone who throws out accusations , refuses to back up the statement with any quotes or post #, and then turns the table on the one accused with inference, or I must have been justified if I said it. Have a good day.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Lol, yep They we’re ruffled by you making an untrue statement, justifying your untrue statement, and acting just like I figured you would. No I don’t care to discuss scripture with anyone who throws out accusations , refuses to back up the statement with any quotes or post #, and then turns the table on the one accused with inference, or I must have been justified if I said it. Have a good day.
Well, if you are ever interested in a serious discussion, I’ll be around.

just sayin.
😎
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Taking our eyes off the prize (Jesus) and placing them on another creates a false sense of self worth and a whole host of errors taught as truth.
So why then are you so focused on John Calvin?
Why does he have so great an impact on you and your thought process? I guess he was a powerful man huh? 😀
I will continue to love, follow, and point others to Jesus because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
Yes, you are commanded to preach the gospel. Just remember to say and teach what’s in the word, nothing more.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
So you are saying God's Word is dead and inactive at times. Interesting. That is not true of course, but you can continue to believe such an error if you like.
This assumption and belief of yours is what's dead, and ineffective. It accomplishes nothing, though the oxymoron is that you call it alive & active. This has always been our position, that God's Grace is effectual in its purpose, not irresistible for God's elect. It is Alive and Active this is one point I agree with you, but I disagree with you that it accomplishes nothing.

So, I'll ask you again, why does Grace precede Faith? If you seek the truth, you will not be ashamed, because it's what I seek, not winning a debate.​
So is God's Word alive and active all the time or just sometimes?...I'll answer for you since you will not. God's Word is always alive and active. Always! No matter what, always! No matter if it goes into an unbelieving heart, God's Word still is alive and active, exposing the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Joe do you really read and try to understand our posts??? We believe all of this, and this is what we have been saying. But where differ, is we believe it's effectual because it is alive and active, you guys on the other hand say it's alive and "ACTIVE", but accomplishes nothing. And I know you will disagree with me a course, but you cannot refute Scripture, you can try, with futile efforts.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

And to answer your question, the same one that has been answered before multiple times, people reject while others believe because they refuse the truth...It's in the bible brother. God Bless
You answered, but addressed nothing. Why do they refuse? The Bible answers this questions, friend.

John 10:25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Know what you believe and why you believe it.
 
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Ladodgers6

Well-known member
They chose to

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (ESV)
10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
This is why I keep asking you about your view on the Fall. After the Fall all mankind fell into darkness and sin. So, in the first Adam we are in bondage to darkness and sin and will always resist God. The heart of stone needs to be made alive, and our futile minds need to be renewed. Therefore, this can only be accomplished by a Divine Act of Grace to the undeserved.​
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
This assumption and belief of yours is what's dead, and ineffective. It accomplishes nothing, though the oxymoron is that you call it alive & active. This has always been our position, that God's Grace is effectual in its purpose, not irresistible for God's elect. It is Alive and Active this is one point I agree with you, but I disagree with you that it accomplishes nothing.

So, I'll ask you again, why does Grace precede Faith? If you seek the truth, you will not be ashamed, because it's what I seek, not winning a debate.

Joe do you really read and try to understand our posts??? We believe all of this, and this is what we have been saying. But where differ, is we believe it's effectual because it is alive and active, you guys on the other hand say it's alive and "ACTIVE", but accomplishes nothing. And I know you will disagree with me a course, but you cannot refute Scripture, you can try, with futile efforts.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”


You answered, but addressed nothing. Why do they refuse? The Bible answers this questions, friend.

John 10:25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Know what you believe and why you believe it.
You do know who Jesus was addressing when He made those remarks right ? This has zero to do with anyone accept the Jews who should have known about their coming Messiah and yet you give it universal application and place all mankind under what Jesus specifically addressed to the JEWS. Jesus was addressing the ones He said He personally told and who rejected Him.
Unchecked Copy Box
Jhn 10:24 - Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him,How long dost thou make us to doubt?If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

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Jhn 10:25 - Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name,they bear witness of me.

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Jhn 10:26 - But ye believe not,because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

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Jhn 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

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Jhn 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

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Jhn 10:29 - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of myFather's hand.

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Jhn 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

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Jhn 10:31 - Then the Jews took up-stones again to stone him.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
This is why I keep asking you about your view on the Fall. After the Fall all mankind fell into darkness and sin. So, in the first Adam we are in bondage to darkness and sin and will always resist God. The heart of stone needs to be made alive, and our futile minds need to be renewed. Therefore, this can only be accomplished by a Divine Act of Grace to the undeserved.​
Some don’t want to hear the truth. Talking to the tree in the back yard, you’ll probably have better results.
 

fltom

Well-known member
This is why I keep asking you about your view on the Fall. After the Fall all mankind fell into darkness and sin. So, in the first Adam we are in bondage to darkness and sin and will always resist God. The heart of stone needs to be made alive, and our futile minds need to be renewed. Therefore, this can only be accomplished by a Divine Act of Grace to the undeserved.​
Conviction

Faith

then regeneration
 

Manfred

Well-known member
So You believe Jesus lied in John 3;16 when He said,” for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes shall not perish but have ever lasting life” ?
No. Why ask such an utter stupid question.
Why not respond to my rebuttal point by point.

Whosoever believes means in your warped Theology that it refers to anyone who chooses to believe.
That is of course against scripture. But you choose to ignore the scripture that says it is not by the will of man or by man's choice.
God is not the author of confusion and there were times God predetermined outcomes so does those predetermined events make null and void what Jesus taught in John 3:16 ?
Your false interpretation of scripture like John 3:16 based on emotion and irrationality is what makes you think God is confused.
You still deny that God creates vessels for destruction for His glory. That is on you, and because you deny the clear word of God you condemn yourself before God.
You have made scripture contradict itself and it doesn’t.
No I have not. Scripture does not contradict itself. Your emotional biases and eisegesis causes you to contradict scripture.

You would rather deny God than deny your free will. You have been doing it all along.
You read John 3:16 through the lens of God will have mercy and compassion on those who freely choose to use their will and exertion to exercise faith.

In doing this, you willfully deny the sovereignty of God and you contradict scripture which you falsely accuse me of.

If you truly believed that scripture does not contradict itself, then it would be impossible for you to reconcile your belief that God has mercy and compassion because all who use their human will to come to Jesus shall be saved.
Your interpretation contradicts what God said!
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
God predetermined the events and prophecies concerning Jesus’ birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection do you believe that was a one time event or do you suppose because God acted the way He did concerning Jesus will be repeated over and over and over ?
Why do you presume and ask such stupid questions.
Do you truly believe only the birth of Jesus was predetermined!
You are truly reading the Bible with blinders of self worship on.
Here is another example:
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
I do not place God in the box that many have basically thinking they know exactly what God has to do based on their finite reasoning. God is bigger than any box men repeatedly try to put Him in.
I can see that you place God in the self will edification and glorification box that you have built for yourself.

You keep shaking your fist at God and shouting INJUSTICE!
 

Manfred

Well-known member
This assumption and belief of yours is what's dead, and ineffective. It accomplishes nothing, though the oxymoron is that you call it alive & active. This has always been our position, that God's Grace is effectual in its purpose, not irresistible for God's elect. It is Alive and Active this is one point I agree with you, but I disagree with you that it accomplishes nothing.

So, I'll ask you again, why does Grace precede Faith? If you seek the truth, you will not be ashamed, because it's what I seek, not winning a debate.

Joe do you really read and try to understand our posts??? We believe all of this, and this is what we have been saying. But where differ, is we believe it's effectual because it is alive and active, you guys on the other hand say it's alive and "ACTIVE", but accomplishes nothing. And I know you will disagree with me a course, but you cannot refute Scripture, you can try, with futile efforts.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”


You answered, but addressed nothing. Why do they refuse? The Bible answers this questions, friend.

John 10:25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Know what you believe and why you believe it.
I commend you for your obedience to the leading of the Spirit of God.
Good post, and the truth cannot be refuted.
All these claims that "goats" hear His voice and understand/believe and then choose to not believe is such an oxymoron. [I believe in you Jesus but I choose to reject you] The glorifying of self blinds these to the truths within scripture.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
No. Why ask such an utter stupid question.
Why not respond to my rebuttal point by point.

Whosoever believes means in your warped Theology that it refers to anyone who chooses to believe.
That is of course against scripture. But you choose to ignore the scripture that says it is not by the will of man or by man's choice.

Your false interpretation of scripture like John 3:16 based on emotion and irrationality is what makes you think God is confused.
You still deny that God creates vessels for destruction for His glory. That is on you, and because you deny the clear word of God you condemn yourself before God.

No I have not. Scripture does not contradict itself. Your emotional biases and eisegesis causes you to contradict scripture.

You would rather deny God than deny your free will. You have been doing it all along.
You read John 3:16 through the lens of God will have mercy and compassion on those who freely choose to use their will and exertion to exercise faith.

In doing this, you willfully deny the sovereignty of God and you contradict scripture which you falsely accuse me of.

If you truly believed that scripture does not contradict itself, then it would be impossible for you to reconcile your belief that God has mercy and compassion because all who use their human will to come to Jesus shall be saved.
Your interpretation contradicts what God said!
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Why do you presume and ask such stupid questions.
Do you truly believe only the birth of Jesus was predetermined!
You are truly reading the Bible with blinders of self worship on.
Here is another example:
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

I can see that you place God in the self will edification and glorification box that you have built for yourself.

You keep shaking your fist at God and shouting INJUSTICE!
I am on an iPhone which does not let me use the quote function How do you square your belief that God has chosen some for hell when that directly contradicts the following scripture ?
Unchecked Copy Box
2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering tous-ward, not willing that any should perish,but that all should come to repentance Many perish but scripture clearly says that is NOT God’s will. Men perish when they reject the truth of God in Christ Jesus and love their sin more than God.God is not confused folks who make scripture contradict other scriptures are confused.
 
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