The gospel in Genesis.

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Amen

Some however seem to be threatened by such truth
Taking our eyes off the prize (Jesus) and placing them on another creates a false sense of self worth and a whole host of errors taught as truth. I will continue to love, follow, and point others to Jesus because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
 
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fltom

Well-known member
Taking our eyes off the prize (Jesus) and placing them on another creates a false sense of self worth and a whole host of errors taught as truth. I will continue to love, follow, and point others to Jesus because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
Amen
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I don’t ignore what Jesus and Paul taught to follow men who claim to follow Christ and ignore what He taught. The point was that God is never unjust in anything He does.
So why do you claim people assert that God takes some sort of delight in people going to hell, when no one says such?
Did you make that up in your mind or what?
Everyone that ends up in hell had the same gift ( salvation) offered to them as those who end up in heaven. Is it God’s fault men reject God ?
You tell me if Paul teaches that this is offered to all men:
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Paul says there is no injustice in this on God's part.
Yet you protest.
Tell me, is it true that God makes vessels for destruction or not? Or perhaps that does not fit with your image of God, the image you have created in your mind.

I believe all of the Bible not just the parts that support false doctrines and beliefs.
You believe the Bible contains false doctrines and beliefs, and presume you somehow have perfect knowledge.
Prove to me that God does not make vessels for destruction and that it ultimately will glorify Him.

God does everything for His good and perfect will. He is sovereign over ALL things.
Scripture says God is long suffering not willing that any should perish so what does that mean to you ?
First of all, you quote half a verse.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Peter is talking with believers regarding the return of Christ and why it is taking long.
Not all that God will save had been saved by the time this was written and it applies today. He will return when all the elect are saved.

If someone goes to hell that is not God’s fault because He provided a way for them NOT to be condemned to hell.
I know you believe contrary to scripture and Paul's teaching that God creates vessels for destruction.
That is on you.

Mal 1:2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob's brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob
Mal 1:3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”
Mal 1:4 If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the LORD of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the LORD is angry forever.’”
Mal 1:5 Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, “Great is the LORD beyond the border of Israel!”

Children of promise vs children of the flesh.
They try and build, but God tears them down. And as per verse 15, God is glorified.

And leatherneck0311 raises his fist and shouts INJUSTICE!
 
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fltom

Well-known member
So why do you claim people assert that God takes some sort of delight in people going to hell, when no one says such?
Did you make that up in your mind or what?

Maybe because Calvinist 's

5. Certain cavils against the doctrine. 1. Prescience regarded as the cause of predestination. Prescience and predestination explained. Not prescience, but the good pleasure of God the cause of predestination.

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death

John Calvin and Henry Beveridge, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Edinburgh: The Calvin Translation Society, 1845), 534.

Furthermore, they are all united in believing that reprobation (or at least some aspect of it) is not based on foreseen sin but is based solely on God’s good pleasure, for the purpose of magnifying his justice toward the reprobate and His grace toward the elect. The gospel coalition
 
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Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
So why do you claim people assert that God takes some sort of delight in people going to hell, when no one says such?
Did you make that up in your mind or what?

You tell me if Paul teaches that this is offered to all men:
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Paul says there is no injustice in this on God's part.
Yet you protest.
Tell me, is it true that God makes vessels for destruction or not? Or perhaps that does not fit with your image of God, the image you have created in your mind.


You believe the Bible contains false doctrines and beliefs, and presume you somehow have perfect knowledge.
Prove to me that God does not make vessels for destruction and that it ultimately will glorify Him.

God does everything for His good and perfect will. He is sovereign over ALL things.

First of all, you quote half a verse.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Peter is talking with believers regarding the return of Christ and why it is taking long.
Not all that God will save had been saved by the time this was written and it applies today. He will return when all the elect are saved.


I know you believe contrary to scripture and Paul's teaching that God creates vessels for destruction.
That is on you.

Mal 1:2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob's brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob
Mal 1:3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”
Mal 1:4 If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the LORD of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the LORD is angry forever.’”
Mal 1:5 Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, “Great is the LORD beyond the border of Israel!”

Children of promise vs children of the flesh.
They try and build, but God tears them down. And as per verse 15, God is glorified.

And leatherneck0311 raises his fist and shouts INJUSTICE!
So You believe Jesus lied in John 3;16 when He said,” for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes shall not perish but have ever lasting life” ? God is not the author of confusion and there were times God predetermined outcomes so does those predetermined events make null and void what Jesus taught in John 3:16 ? You have made scripture contradict itself and it doesn’t. God predetermined the events and prophecies concerning Jesus’ birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection do you believe that was a one time event or do you suppose because God acted the way He did concerning Jesus will be repeated over and over and over ? I do not place God in the box that many have basically thinking they know exactly what God has to do based on their finite reasoning. God is bigger than any box men repeatedly try to put Him in.
 
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Carbon

Well-known member
So You believe Jesus lied in John 3;16 when He said,” for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes shall not perish but have ever lasting life” ? God is not the author of confusion and there were times God predetermined outcomes so does those predetermined events make null and void what Jesus taught in John 3:16 ? You have made scripture contradict itself and it doesn’t. God predetermined the events and prophecies concerning Jesus’ birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection do you believe that was a one time event or do you suppose because God acted the way He did concerning Jesus will be repeated over and over and over ? I do not place God in the box that many have basically thinking they know exactly what God has to do based on their finite reasoning. God is bigger than any box men repeatedly try to put Him in.
🤣😂😂🤣🤣
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Bud, you got your feathers all ruffled.
I knew this would happen.

Can we start over? And have a good back and forth discussion without the Calvinism judging?
It would go a lot smoother.

trying to help
Lol, yep They we’re ruffled by you making an untrue statement, justifying your untrue statement, and acting just like I figured you would. No I don’t care to discuss scripture with anyone who throws out accusations , refuses to back up the statement with any quotes or post #, and then turns the table on the one accused with inference, or I must have been justified if I said it. Have a good day.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Lol, yep They we’re ruffled by you making an untrue statement, justifying your untrue statement, and acting just like I figured you would. No I don’t care to discuss scripture with anyone who throws out accusations , refuses to back up the statement with any quotes or post #, and then turns the table on the one accused with inference, or I must have been justified if I said it. Have a good day.
Well, if you are ever interested in a serious discussion, I’ll be around.

just sayin.
😎
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Taking our eyes off the prize (Jesus) and placing them on another creates a false sense of self worth and a whole host of errors taught as truth.
So why then are you so focused on John Calvin?
Why does he have so great an impact on you and your thought process? I guess he was a powerful man huh? 😀
I will continue to love, follow, and point others to Jesus because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
Yes, you are commanded to preach the gospel. Just remember to say and teach what’s in the word, nothing more.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
So you are saying God's Word is dead and inactive at times. Interesting. That is not true of course, but you can continue to believe such an error if you like.
This assumption and belief of yours is what's dead, and ineffective. It accomplishes nothing, though the oxymoron is that you call it alive & active. This has always been our position, that God's Grace is effectual in its purpose, not irresistible for God's elect. It is Alive and Active this is one point I agree with you, but I disagree with you that it accomplishes nothing.

So, I'll ask you again, why does Grace precede Faith? If you seek the truth, you will not be ashamed, because it's what I seek, not winning a debate.​
So is God's Word alive and active all the time or just sometimes?...I'll answer for you since you will not. God's Word is always alive and active. Always! No matter what, always! No matter if it goes into an unbelieving heart, God's Word still is alive and active, exposing the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Joe do you really read and try to understand our posts??? We believe all of this, and this is what we have been saying. But where differ, is we believe it's effectual because it is alive and active, you guys on the other hand say it's alive and "ACTIVE", but accomplishes nothing. And I know you will disagree with me a course, but you cannot refute Scripture, you can try, with futile efforts.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

And to answer your question, the same one that has been answered before multiple times, people reject while others believe because they refuse the truth...It's in the bible brother. God Bless
You answered, but addressed nothing. Why do they refuse? The Bible answers this questions, friend.

John 10:25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Know what you believe and why you believe it.
 
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Ladodgers6

Well-known member
They chose to

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (ESV)
10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
This is why I keep asking you about your view on the Fall. After the Fall all mankind fell into darkness and sin. So, in the first Adam we are in bondage to darkness and sin and will always resist God. The heart of stone needs to be made alive, and our futile minds need to be renewed. Therefore, this can only be accomplished by a Divine Act of Grace to the undeserved.​
 
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