The gospel in Genesis.

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
I gave you the opportunity to discuss it since it bothered you so much.
You should have done so.
Isn't it ironic that we get accused of distorting scripture? You can try to twist it as much as you want to. But it doesn't change the facts, Leatherneck. Because these passages destroy your universalism in one swing of the bat, going, going, gone!!!

Instead, why don't you guys address the passages head on, for what are, not what you try to pretend they mean? Christ explicitly states they don't believe BECAUSE they are NOT among my Sheep. Only His Sheep hear his voice and follow. Your polemical argument is but a papier-mache.​

I highlighted in RED the passages above that you skipped over, and purposely do not want to see. So, please address them head on.
John 10:25 pretty much sums up why there are the following verses does it not ? No I am not a universalist not everyone is going to go to heaven.
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Jhn 10:25 - Jesus answered them, I told you, and yebelieved not: the works that I do in my Father's name,they bear witness of me.
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Jhn 10:26 - But ye believe not,because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. They were not of Jesus’ flock because as Jesus said in Vs. 25 they did not believe. Jhn 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: My sheep i.e. those that believed Jesus.
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Jhn 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Give unto them i.e those who believed Jesus as said in Vs. 25.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
I commend you for your obedience to the leading of the Spirit of God.
Good post, and the truth cannot be refuted.
All these claims that "goats" hear His voice and understand/believe and then choose to not believe is such an oxymoron. [I believe in you Jesus but I choose to reject you] The glorifying of self blinds these to the truths within scripture.
Wrong ! Jesus explained why some don’t accept Him.
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Jhn 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
John 10:25 pretty much sums up why there are the following verses does it not ? No I am not a universalist not everyone is going to go to heaven.
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Jhn 10:25 - Jesus answered them, I told you, and yebelieved not: the works that I do in my Father's name,they bear witness of me.
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Jhn 10:26 - But ye believe not,because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. They were not of Jesus’ flock because as Jesus said in Vs. 25 they did not believe. Jhn 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: My sheep i.e. those that believed Jesus.
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Jhn 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Give unto them i.e those who believed Jesus as said in Vs. 25.
There really is no need to debate you, your destroying yourself.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Wrong ! Jesus explained why some don’t accept Him.
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Jhn 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Of course, all men are evil until through regeneration they are given a new heart and the gift of faith.

But you have it evil man who love darkness rather than light, choose Christ.

Can’t you see you have no argument? You defeat yourself. And you will continue to do so because there’s nothing in scripture to support your view.

Next…
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Of course, all men are evil until through regeneration they are given a new heart and the gift of faith.

But you have it evil man who love darkness rather than light, choose Christ.

Can’t you see you have no argument? You defeat yourself. And you will continue to do so because there’s nothing in scripture to support your view.

Next…
You seem to have missed that the folks Jesus is talking about in John 3:19 heard Jesus and rejected Him. hn 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Lol, you said evil men who loved darkness chose Christ;however, Jesus said they rejected Him. Maybe a reading comprehension course would help you get the context ? Those who believed chose the truth and light. Those who rejected Jesus did so because they loved darkness rather than light. I guess any explanation to deny the clear message of scripture when you’re floundering will do.you might want to re-read that verse you have it 100% wrong. Hope that helps.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
You seem to have missed that the folks Jesus is talking about in John 3:19 heard Jesus and rejected Him. hn 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Lol, you said evil men who loved darkness chose Christ;however, Jesus said they rejected Him. Maybe a reading comprehension course would help you get the context ? Those who believed chose the truth and light. Those who rejected Jesus did so because they loved darkness rather than light. I guess any explanation to deny the clear message of scripture when you’re floundering will do.you might want to re-read that verse you have it 100% wrong. Hope that helps.
Well sure they rejected him. Just as anyone who is not born again.
John 3,
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Until then they are in darkness.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
There really is no need to debate you, your destroying yourself.
Well sure they rejected him. Just as anyone who is not born again.
John 3,
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Until then they are in darkness.
Why are you ignoring why they rejected Him as He taught ? What was the difference between those who chose to believe and those who loved darkness more than light ? Same message 2 different results and Jesus explained why. Your explanation was never mentioned by Jesus in those verses. It’s pretty clear based on why according to Jesus it was because they loved darkness more than light.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
. Lol, you said evil men who loved darkness chose Christ;however, Jesus said they rejected Him.
Lol, you better look again. I said that’s what you teach.
Maybe a reading comprehension course would help you get the context ?
Maybe if you read that exchange between you and I a second time, you’ll get it?
Those who believed chose the truth and light.
Those who believed? Haha.
Now your making unbelievers believers.
Those who rejected Jesus did so because they loved darkness rather than light.
Yep, and they are in darkness.
I guess any explanation to deny the clear message of scripture when you’re floundering will do.you might want to re-read that verse you have it 100% wrong. Hope that helps.
Pay attention please.
 
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Carbon

Well-known member
Of course, all men are evil until through regeneration they are given a new heart and the gift of faith.

But you have it evil man who love darkness rather than light, choose Christ.

Can’t you see you have no argument? You defeat yourself. And you will continue to do so because there’s nothing in scripture to support your view.

Next…
@Leatherneck0311

Here, so you can reread
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Why are you ignoring why they rejected Him as He taught ?
Me? No bud I don’t think so.
What was the difference between those who chose to believe and those who loved darkness more than light ?
Regeneration. And then, it wasn’t they chose to believe, they believed.
Jest like Peter said to the jailer.- Believe.
Not to make a decision to believe.

Same message 2 different results and Jesus explained why. Your explanation was never mentioned by Jesus in those verses. It’s pretty clear based on why according to Jesus it was because they loved darkness more than light.
Lol. Your all mixed up.
Of course they loved darkness and not light. They are in darkness and can’t see the kingdom until they are first born again. Until then they are God haters just as you and I were.
 
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Carbon

Well-known member
Why are you ignoring why they rejected Him as He taught ?
Why are you ignoring biblical truth.
Ya know, I feel bad here. I really do. I believe your being honest and genuine with me but you just don’t really understand.
These things you believe, did your church teach you this? A pastor or friend maybe?

Do you just believe in your heart that you got it right?
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Why are you ignoring biblical truth.
Ya know, I feel bad here. I really do. I believe your being honest and genuine with me but you just don’t really understand.
These things you believe, did your church teach you this? A pastor or friend maybe?

Do you just believe in your heart that you got it right?
I got it straight out of the Bible minus the man made spin.Good night.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
John 10:25 pretty much sums up why there are the following verses does it not ? No I am not a universalist not everyone is going to go to heaven.
You are a universalist in that everyone has or receives prevenient grace, correct? If, I am wrong please correct me. All mankind after the fall in Adam, are following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

So, this sinful nature is contrary to God and hates God, is hostile toward Him, and are enemies of God. They Love the darkness rather than the light. They do not believe or trust in God, they continually resist God. This is the sinful nature of the sinner! This is Sunday school 101, people! We are dead in our trespasses and sins, enslaved to sin and Satan.​
Unchecked Copy Box

Jhn 10:25 - Jesus answered them, I told you, and yebelieved not: the works that I do in my Father's name,they bear witness of me.
Unchecked Copy Box

Jhn 10:26 - But ye believe not,because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. They were not of Jesus’ flock because as Jesus said in Vs. 25 they did not believe. Jhn 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: My sheep i.e. those that believed Jesus.
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Jhn 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Give unto them i.e those who believed Jesus as said in Vs. 25.
So, by saying you hang your hat on that one verse, and ignore the rest, is not only careless and responsible, but plain deceitful. The truth is what we seek, not winning a debate. They will always believe not, BECAUSE ye ARE NOT of MY SHEEP.

Know what you believe and why you believe it.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
You are a universalist in that everyone has or receives prevenient grace, correct? If, I am wrong please correct me. All mankind after the fall in Adam, are following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

So, this sinful nature is contrary to God and hates God, is hostile toward Him, and are enemies of God. They Love the darkness rather than the light. They do not believe or trust in God, they continually resist God. This is the sinful nature of the sinner! This is Sunday school 101, people! We are dead in our trespasses and sins, enslaved to sin and Satan.​

So, by saying you hang your hat on that one verse, and ignore the rest, is not only careless and irresponsible, but plain deceitful. The truth is what we seek, not winning a debate. They will always believe not, BECAUSE ye ARE NOT of MY SHEEP.

Know what you believe and why you believe it.
By Grace Alone!
 

fltom

Well-known member
Well, here we have another contradiction. I thought you said that the Father has to draw them first? Where is Grace in your equation? Nowhere to be found!!! Pelagian view no doubt!
Lets see

sending Christ grace
sending the word - grace
sending the holy spirit - grace

providing for conviction through the spirit

belief through the word concerning Christ wrought by the spirit

regeneration by the spirit

A little bit of common sense and one could have realized I was just listing the order of certain things happening in man

but then if one is just wanting to strawman like you just did they could ignore that and pretend none of those things involved

grace. It would not be honest but I guess some people just don't care
 

fltom

Well-known member
Nobody offers rebuttals to you. Your wat to good. Why do you waste your time in here? Shouldn't you be finding a cure for cancer or something?
I know you don't

that is for sure

In any case we were talking about Civic and his response to others but once again you ignore context
 

fltom

Well-known member
Not according to scripture



Regeneration is the impartation of life which is preceded by faith/repentance

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Regeneration makes one a child of God. One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. It is through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

Titus 3:8 (KJV)
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Not according to scripture



Regeneration is the impartation of life which is preceded by faith/repentance

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Regeneration makes one a child of God. One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. It is through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

Titus 3:8 (KJV)
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
So it's "through faith" not because of?
 
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