The gospel in Genesis.

[Manfred]

Wrong ! Jesus explained why some don’t accept Him.

Jhn 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

The glorifying of self diminishes God.
Diminishing the sovereignty of God builds up self and is idolatry.
Reading scripture through a lens where men are uplifted and God is diminished does not honor God, but dishonors Him.
You dishonor God by diminishing Him.

Why do men love darkness rather than light? Do they KNOW the LIGHT of the world? Has He been revealed to them?
Joh 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.
Joh 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
Rom 11:8 as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”

Down to this very day even the gentiles that are not grafted in are blinded by a spirit of stupor.

 

[Manfred]

It’s interesting to read many of the arguments in this A&C areas, seeing the free willers fighting so hard to protect their free will idol. Instead of discussing scripture they would rather discuss Calvinism and how evil it is. This is their strawman they hide behind. They believe in decisional regeneration, they even though they can’t quite see it, they save themselves.

How true. Yet they will scan this accurate observation and dismiss it offhand. They are not willing to look introspectively at what you observe.

The reformed however, maintain that it is impossible for men to engage in any saving good unless there is a living bond between them and Him who declared “apart from Me you can do nothing” John 15:5.
We hold that faith, repentance and justification presuppose the mystical union and are fruits of the organic union of God’s chosen ones in Christ, who is the living embodiment of all saving grace.

Correct, that is the Biblical stance and God is forever glorified.

This mystical union with Christ is at one and the same time the very beginning of salvation. It is both the fountain and guarantee of every Christian virtue and every Christian exercise.

One had no hand in being born. You did NOTHING. Why would one then have anything to do with a second birth, or spiritual birth.
Jesus is both the author and perfecter of faith.

Faith, hope and love, which are the three great requisites for salvation on man’s part, all find their sources in the fellowship established by the Holy Spirit between the Savior and the elect in the moment of regeneration.

Amen!

This is the same for Arminians. They just do not see these explicit truths in scripture.

They are too self absorbed. Cannot look past self and they demand that God should have mercy and compassion based on human will and choices made through the human will.

I commend you brother for being obedient to the leading of the Spirit as you continue to bring God all the glory and diminishing human will and human free will choices that have any spiritual value..

 

[fltom]

Does the Spirit only work externally prior to faith?

We know the spirit is not given to unbelievers despite you prior error claiming the spirit was given to unbelievers

The only thing the spirit is stated to do for the unbeliever is

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

 

[David1701]

Here read it below

Why the Jews did not believe Jesus

All of Israel were not unbelievers; there were many who did believe; and they have a promise of a future restoration; whereas the Gentiles, who do not continue faithful, have no such promise: no not all Rom. 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of...

forums.carm.org

Alright, now I see what has happened. He believes that "the god of this age" refers to the one true God and not to Satan. That is certainly a minority view, but it is not intended blasphemously.

One of the issues here is that, occasionally, God and the devil are said to the do the same thing. In this kind of situation, it is a case of the devil being a secondary (or proximate) cause, but the thing having been intended to happen by God. Here is an example.

2 Sam. 24:1 (WEB) Again the LORD’s anger was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”

Above, it states clearly that God moved David to number Israel, because his (God's) anger was kindled against them; but, now look at the parallel passage, in Chronicles.

1 Chr. 21:1 (WEB) Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

So, who was it who moved David to number Israel: God, or Satan? The answer is: both! God ordained it to happen and Satan carried it out; in other words, God used Satan to move David to number Israel.

So, Satan may be called "the god of this age", but it is God who is always in charge, and Satan can only do what God allows/ordains him to do, to fulfil God's purposes.

Here is also an example of the Lord doing something deliberately, so that certain people would not "see" (i.e. so that they would be spiritually blind).

Mark 4:11,12 (WEB)
11 He said to them, “To you is given the mystery of the Kingdom of God, but to those who are outside, all things are done in parables,
12 that ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.’”

 

[fltom]

One had no hand in being born. You did NOTHING. Why would one then have anything to do with a second birth, or spiritual birth.

Because the bible shows you must

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 

[Manfred]

Because the bible shows you must

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

People who think this says you must do something instead of "in order to be saved you must be born again" are nothing but ignoramuses' that abuse scripture and claim no one can refute them.

Not interested in your falsehoods.
Bye

 

[Reformedguy]

We know the spirit is not given to unbelievers despite you prior error claiming the spirit was given to unbelievers

The only thing the spirit is stated to do for the unbeliever is

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

And is that accomplished externally exclusively? For instance, how does He turn the kings heart where He wishes it to go?

I have never said, by the way, the Spirit is given to unbelievers.

 

[fltom]

And is that accomplished externally exclusively? For instance, how does He turn the kings heart where He wishes it to go?

I have never said, by the way, the Spirit is given to unbelievers.

You are fabricating

You argued based on Ezek 36 that men believe by being given the Spirit

Your claim is not to be trusted

 

[fltom]

People who think this says you must do something instead of "in order to be saved you must be born again" are nothing but ignoramuses' that abuse scripture and claim no one can refute them.

Not interested in your falsehoods.
Bye

LOL

Naturally you addressed nothing

Why do you claim to believe in sola scriptura when scripture is clearly not your authority?

rather your Calvinism is

and so you respond with insult instead of scripture

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 

[Reformedguy]

You are fabricating

You argued based on Ezek 36 that men believe by being given the Spirit

Your claim is not to be trusted

Never said given. That's your term

 

[fltom]

Never said given. That's your term

Fabrication

Your words

"It's given to unbelievers so they may understand the things of God of which the gospel is included. Thankfully you give up the silly claim the gospel is not among the "things of God"."

 

[Reformedguy]

Fabrication

Your words

"It's given to unbelievers so they may understand the things of God of which the gospel is included. Thankfully you give up the silly claim the gospel is not among the "things of God"."

Given not in the indwelt sense. I could say the HS is given to the world to reprove it of sin. You simply misunderstand

 

[fltom]

Given not in the indwelt sense. I could say the HS is given to the world to reprove it of sin. You simply misunderstand

Your words


"It's given to unbelievers so they may understand the things of God of which the gospel is included. Thankfully you give up the silly claim the gospel is not among the "things of God"."

were undergirded by your appeal to

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

and that speaks of indwelling

you are fabricating here

 

[Reformedguy]

Your words


"It's given to unbelievers so they may understand the things of God of which the gospel is included. Thankfully you give up the silly claim the gospel is not among the "things of God"."

were undergirded by your appeal to

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

and that speaks of indwelling

you are fabricating here

Nope. Never says indwelling.

I explained given which of course you totally ignored. I will not do it again. DEAL WITH IT

 

[fltom]

Nope. Never says indwelling.

I explained given which of course you totally ignored. I will not do it again. DEAL WITH IT

You still fabricate

Your words


"It's given to unbelievers so they may understand the things of God of which the gospel is included. Thankfully you give up the silly claim the gospel is not among the "things of God"."

It is the holy Spirit

were undergirded by your appeal to

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

and that speaks of indwelling

you are fabricating here

BTW you never stated

"I could say the HS is given to the world to reprove it of sin"

Face you error and man up

 

[Reformedguy]

You still fabricate

Your words


"It's given to unbelievers so they may understand the things of God of which the gospel is included. Thankfully you give up the silly claim the gospel is not among the "things of God"."

It is the holy Spirit

were undergirded by your appeal to

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

and that speaks of indwelling

you are fabricating here

BTW you never stated

"I could say the HS is given to the world to reprove it of sin"

Face you error and man up

I know what I wrote and explained.

I'm stating it now. DEAL WITH IT

 

[fltom]

I know what I wrote and explained.

I'm stating it now. DEAL WITH IT

Sorry but that is revisionism

Based on Ezek 36 you argued the spirit is put in unbelievers so they might believe

anything which denies that is simply not true

 

[Reformedguy]

Sorry but that is revisionism

Based on Ezek 36 you argued the spirit is put in unbelievers so they might believe

anything which denies that is simply not true

The Holy Spirit can go where it wishes including the hearts of kings to move them where He wishes them to go.

 

[fltom]

The Holy Spirit can go where it wishes including the hearts of kings to move them where He wishes them to go.

The holy spirit is not given to unbelievers

Stop dodging the point

 

[Reformedguy]

The holy spirit is not given to unbelievers

Stop dodging the point

Just kings to move them where He wishes them to go? Lol