Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Saved by grace through faith no where does scripture teach that you don’t have a choice when confronted with truth.
The gospel in Genesis.
- Thread starter Carbon
- Start date
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Ditto you have no clue your blinders are on tight.
Carbon
Super Member
You obviously dont know what I believe concerning this.
Is it exhausting beating up a strawman?
All you have to do is ask bud.
Carbon
Super Member
Oh yea, those Calvinist blinders huh?
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
BBL , I lost my cool over a blatant lie and worse the one lying turned the whole incident into a joke. I do believe lying is still a sin. Later.
Carbon
Super Member
Bud, you got your feathers all ruffled.
I knew this would happen.
Can we start over? And have a good back and forth discussion without the Calvinism judging?
It would go a lot smoother.
trying to help
L
Ladodgers6
Guest
Good, so we must be regenerated by the Holy Spirit prior to Faith, correct?
So, is this a partial Regeneration? And if so, where in Scripture, can I find such a teaching? How do you deal with these passages:
John 10:27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
Though we will struggle and fall a lot of times, Christ did not fall or fail. And it's only in Him that we have life and redemption through a Promise made by God. And God doesn't break his Promises.
Though we will struggle and fall a lot of times, Christ did not fall or fail. And it's only in Him that we have life and redemption through a Promise made by God. And God doesn't break his Promises.
Theo1689
Well-known member
I love how heretics always resort to the double negative, instead of even attempting to prove the positive doctrine.
In effect, this is an argument from silence, which is fallacious.
Scripture says we are "dead in trespasses and sins". Do dead people have a "choice" to become alive?
Scripture says we are "slaves to sin". Do slaves have a "choice" to be free? (Maybe the Civil war was unnecessary?)
Jesus taught that "no man can come to Him", if the Father didn't draw him.
Does that sound like someone can "choose" to come to Him?
L
Ladodgers6
Guest
You are either skimming over his passages or just want to be silly.
Carbon
Super Member
Agreed!
And I have no issue talking with him or anyone else about these things. But leave out the, judging me because I’m a Calvinist. That’s not the makings of good discussions.
L
Ladodgers6
Guest
Amen Brother! I think they look at the fall as a time out, we're not that bad, we're good people.
L
Ladodgers6
Guest
I am the ugly Calvinist who eats little kids, and terrorize villagers. I am Baba Yaga! Just kidding, being silly.
Carbon
Super Member
You meanie!
Well lets see what a dead man can do
John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Strawman argument. I'm not criticizing Jesus Christ. I'm making an observation of your god which should never be confused with the biblical God.
Joe
Well-known member
When I say universal application, I mean that it applies universally not to just to one group. God’s Word is alive and active, getting right to our heart, exposing the very thoughts and intent. This applies to both saved and unsaved. Why? Because God's Word is alive and active! It does not matter if the hearer is unbelieving, God's Word is still alive and active.
I agree that it was written to believers, and I also agree it is to reveal our heart to us. But God’s Word is not only for sanctification and conformation, but for preaching to the lost that they too may have the sin of their heart exposed, and that is why we preach repent and be saved. God’s Word is alive and active no matter what...that is my point. We were born again by the Living and active Word of God. We were in unbelief and it exposed our sin.
You seem fixated that God’s Word is only alive and active only to the believer, and this is not the case. And this is the reason why I asked you, “Are you saying if it is an unbeliever God's Word is not living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart? And that an unbeliever is excluded from His sight, not naked and exposed, and will not give an account?”…Please answer.
Didn’t the Word of God get spoken to the Israelite's before crossing the river Jordan? How did they respond except for a few? In unbelief. They were given God’s Word and did not believe, so unbelievers were given God’s Word that is alive and active, and they did not trust God. Did God’s Word fail to be alive and active? No. What happened? The people failed to trust God.
Yes, I know it is, but God's word is always alive and active is it not?
And what am I trying to say Carbon?
The writer of Hebrews used 12-13 as a was warning to the believers not to fall into disobedience like the unbelieving Jews of Moses day. Please understand verses 12-13 is universal application, in that ALL must give an account before God. When God’s Word is preached it cuts through and exposes our sin. As Jesus told Nicodemus, those who love the darkness will not come into the light because their deeds are evil…These are the ones who heard and disbelieve because they love the darkness. It is not that God’s Word was dead and inactive, not exposing their sinful thoughts and intents. It is that they reject it for the love of sin. But those who do what is right come into the light to show they are doing what God wants…These are believers.
And no, I’m not taking the passage out of context. The writer of Hebrews used it as a universal application that ALL must give an account before God. This is believers and unbelievers alike.
So when is God’s Word not alive and active? Please answer. I’m quite sure you know the correct answer and it will end the debate.
God bless
eternomade
Well-known member
Grace and faith cannot be separated because grace causes faith.
eternomade
Well-known member
I've been reading through John a lot lately. I see he makes many two sided distinctions. Darkness and light etc.
Men love the darkness rather than the light. John 6 and John 10 both stand out to me showing God's Sovereignty in salvation. I think it's amazing.
I see the gospel as a story. It's who Jesus is and what He accomplished. I understand that before time the Father elected a people in Christ to save. The Word was made flesh, born of a virgin with the purpose of establishing a righteousness and atoning for all the sin of those the Father gave Him. He then sent the Holy Spirit to regenerate those who are in Christ, revealing their justification by faith and repentance of dead works. This is how I understand the Gospel.
Carbon
Super Member
Of course God’s word is active and alive Joe, I agree.
your just using the passage out of context imo.
Good I’m glad you agree here, as I thought you would.
That’s what we are told to preach, why wouldn’t we?
Of course. And God talks to His people through the word.
We were born again be the Holy Spirit as Jesus taught. When the new heart hears the word, he believes.
Depends on what passages your using actually. When Jesus said, I lay down my life for the sheep, that wasn’t to the reprobate, although they may here it.
Joe, read it in context, for what it says, try not to let your theology seep in.
No one is hidden from His sight, He’s God. And yes the reprobate are accountable. But again Joe, that’s not the context.
The ones that listened were God’s sheep obviously.
Scripture says so.
Your trying to say prevenient grace is scriptural.
Of course. And it is expressing who God is.
I don’t disagree.
Why do you keep stressing this? I never said it was. ?
I’ll pass on this for now.
Well at least your changing your story.
I agree with that.
Joe, I’m not concerned with ending the debate. I don’t really see a debate. I just stated some facts and you can agree or disagree.
If you would like to keep discussing this, I’m fine with that also
Joe
Well-known member
Brother, I have not changed my story. You are now beginning to realize what I meant after I responded to your posts. You are not there yet.
And God does not only communicate to believers as you suggested. He talks to ALL people, believers and unbelievers alike.
And I will answer the question asked of you; God's Word is never dead nor inactive. That ends the debate. 12-13 is universal in application, in that no matter who you are or your salvation status, God's Word when preached will invoke a response because it is living and active, exposing the thoughts and intent of the heart. And that is why we preach it, as I originally said which sparked you to debate. You argued it was for believers only, and it is not.
I hope you understand and agree with the Apostle Peter that you were "born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever."
I have adequately proven that God's Word is alive and active no matter one's status of salvation. And that because it is such, it will invoke a response one way or another within the hearer, belief or unbelief. And we are to preach it indiscriminately so all can hear and perhaps believe.
Thank you for the civil discourse. It can get ugly on the board once in while!
God bless