The Gospel Preached by Jesus

Algernon

Member
The gospel preached by Jesus are the words He spoke during His ministry. His ministry began with His quoting from the Book of Isaiah in Luke 4 and ended with His death on the cross.

Luke 4
16And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. 17And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,
18THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,
19TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.
20And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.

Jesus clearly stated His purpose. The purpose for which He was anointed. The purpose for which He is the Christ (Christ means "anointed one" for those who are unaware):
1) To preach His gospel - These are the words He spoke while preaching His gospel during His ministry.
2) To give sight to the blind - To open the eyes of those blind to the will of God which is contained in His gospel.
3) To set free the captives - To FREE those who abide in His word from the slavery of committing sin. To FREE those who abide in His gospel (See John 8).

During His ministry, Jesus did exactly what He said He was going to do. The above outlines the core of the gospel preached by Jesus.
There is no "total depravity of man" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.
There is no "vicarious atonement for the forgiveness of sins" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.
There is no "if you believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Christ you will receive eternal life and live in the Kingdom" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.
There is no "imputed righteousness" in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

Christianity has a different gospel based on the theology of Paul and others as its foundation.
Shouldn't Christianity have the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry as its foundation?
 

Algernon

Member
Perhaps the most prevalent theme of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, is the importance of His word:
Understanding His word.
Not just understanding His word, but believing His word.
Not just believing His word, but following His word.
Not just following His word, but keeping His word.
Not just keeping His word, but abiding in His word.

Many claim to be "followers of Jesus", yet don't know the half of the words spoken by Jesus during His ministry.
Of those who ARE familiar with the words spoken by Jesus during His ministry, few if any allow His words to speak for themselves. Few if any have taken the time to analyze His words in order to understand the underlying concepts and overarching themes. As such, they not only aren't able to keep, follow or believe His word, they don't even understand His word.

John 12
46 “I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
50 “I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear".
 

civic

Active member
There is One God
There is One Lord
There is One Faith
There is One Baptism
There is One Jesus
There is only One way to God
There is One Savior

And there is One Gospel

Galatians 1:6
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

So since there is only One God, One Savior, One way to God through Christ, One faith, One baptism and One Gospel- there is only one way to be saved.

Paul defines that Gospel by which we are saved below:

1 Corinthians 15:1-19
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

Paul declared that he received his gospel directly from Jesus in Arabia and was confirmed by the Apostles in Jerusalem. See Galatians 2.

Only One way to be saved, by One Person, One Gospel and One Faith. In Him alone. Scripture is really very exclusive here but inclusive to all that come to Him freely!

Revelation 14:6

Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus passed on the gospel to His Disciples. Its the same Gospel but Christ had not suffered, died, risen yet. The disciples didn't understand the Passion until after His Resurrection, they were in denial.

Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.” — John 13:7,19

After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. John 2:22

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. — Matthew 16:21

Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!” — Matthew 20:17-19

After His Resurrection

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. — Luke 24:25-27

He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.Luke 24:44-45
 

Algernon

Member
There is One God
There is One Lord
There is One Faith
There is One Baptism
There is One Jesus
There is only One way to God
There is One Savior

And there is One Gospel

Galatians 1:6
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

So since there is only One God, One Savior, One way to God through Christ, One faith, One baptism and One Gospel- there is only one way to be saved.

Paul defines that Gospel by which we are saved below:

1 Corinthians 15:1-19
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

Paul declared that he received his gospel directly from Jesus in Arabia and was confirmed by the Apostles in Jerusalem. See Galatians 2.

Only One way to be saved, by One Person, One Gospel and One Faith. In Him alone. Scripture is really very exclusive here but inclusive to all that come to Him freely!

Revelation 14:6

Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus passed on the gospel to His Disciples. Its the same Gospel but Christ had not suffered, died, risen yet. The disciples didn't understand the Passion until after His Resurrection, they were in denial.

Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.” — John 13:7,19

After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. John 2:22

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. — Matthew 16:21

Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!” — Matthew 20:17-19

After His Resurrection

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. — Luke 24:25-27

He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.Luke 24:44-45

Evidently you believe in a gospel that has the theology of Paul and others as its foundation rather than the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

Have you bothered to allow the words spoken by Jesus when He was preaching His gospel during His ministry to speak for themselves and taken the time to analyze those words in order to understand the underlying concepts and overarching themes?

If not, you should note that in all of the following, when Jesus speaks of His word, He is speaking in the past tense. He is speaking of words spoken by Him when He was preaching His gospel during His ministry.

John 12
46 “I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
50 “I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

John 6
63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

John 15
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear".
 

Gary Mac

Member
Evidently you believe in a gospel that has the theology of Paul and others as its foundation rather than the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

Have you bothered to allow the words spoken by Jesus when He was preaching His gospel during His ministry to speak for themselves and taken the time to analyze those words in order to understand the underlying concepts and overarching themes?

If not, you should note that in all of the following, when Jesus speaks of His word, He is speaking in the past tense. He is speaking of words spoken by Him when He was preaching His gospel during His ministry.

John 12
46 “I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
50 “I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

John 6
63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

John 15
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear".
Im always amazed at these who do not listen to Jesus but always listen to others perspective about him. Most follow another such as Paul instead of Jesus and they do not teach the same things. One of these teaches you are a sinner the other teaches that if you have the same from the Father he had then you are the righteousness of God in Christ.
 

Algernon

Member
Im always amazed at these who do not listen to Jesus but always listen to others perspective about him.
Ditto. Especially given the repeated emphasis Jesus put on the words He was speaking as He preached His gospel. Why do you think this is?
Most follow another such as Paul instead of Jesus and they do not teach the same things.
Exactly.
One of these teaches you are a sinner the other teaches that if you have the same from the Father he had then you are the righteousness of God in Christ.
Not sure what you have in mind here. Can you elaborate?
 

Gary Mac

Member
Ditto. Especially given the repeated emphasis Jesus put on the words He was speaking as He preached His gospel. Why do you think this is?

Exactly.

Not sure what you have in mind here. Can you elaborate?
Paul teaches that you are a sinner
Jesus teaches that in Christ, Christ in you, you anointed of God, that we are the righteousness of God and that does not include sin.

In Christ there is no sin it is outside of Christ that one is a sinner.
 

Algernon

Member
Thanks for that.

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly: Are you saying those who abide in Christ do not commit sin? That they are truly righteous?

If so, then I fully agree.
Jesus calls His followers to be sons of God as He was a son of God.
Jesus calls His followers to be one with God as He was one with God.
Jesus calls His followers to be truly righteous. That is, they do not commit sin.

John 5
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 13
41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. 49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Thoughts?
 
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Gary Mac

Member
Thanks for that.

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly: Are you saying those who abide in Christ do not commit sin? That they are truly righteous?

If so, then I fully agree.
Jesus calls His followers to be sons of God as He was a son of God.
Jesus calls His followers to be one with God as He was one with God.
Jesus calls His followers to be truly righteous. That is, they do not commit sin.

John 5
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 13
41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. 49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Thoughts?
Yes totally for it is impossible to be in Christ and be in sin, for if it was that whould make Christ a sinner. And what most do not understand is that Christ is the disposition of man who is anointed of God. Christ in you is Gods anointing in you. But because religious folk has switched the meaning and has made the man who is anointed of God a god himself from ignorance in having the same from God that man named Jesus had from God.

Adam, Abraham, Moses, Job, Mary, Jesus, 120, all of these recieved the same SPirit of God as their own disposition for their actions were identified with Him.

When one will actually stop and analyze the before and after in all of these, especially Jesus when he coming out from teachings the law in the temples, even from a young age, and at his teachings after Matt 3:16 where God opend a whole new knowledge he had not known before his teachings changed from law to Spirit and the works of and if one will observe they will see that the very ones who once reverened for his knowledge of itheir law are the very ones who after had him crucified for blaspheme.

Religious folk today do the very same when one is actually recieves from God that what Jesus did from Him the righteousness of God in Christ as our own disposition as God origionall designed us to be in His same image. But because these have not recieved His same knowledge as these did, Christ sufferes through the hands of people who listen to someone else opinions about him that such as Paul and they do not go to the Father for themselves to know what it is to be the righteousness of God in Christ.

This mortal man with a carnal mind can never be perfected and never will be prefct and without sin for it is regulated by law. It is the Spirit man who can be perfected by Gods SPirit of Love and these who mock us who are anointed of God and without sin cannot relate because of the absence of that righteousness that comes by Gods Spirit and they treat us who are just as they treated jesus in his day no different at all. They accused him of blaspheme for having Gods SPirit and the same accuse me of blaspheme for having the same SPirit of God as my disposition.

These are assuming themselves to be in a certain condition they never have been in and the very reasn they cant relate to Jesus command to be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. That is impossible for these and thay have stated it many times here and even mock Jesus for he demands it of us.

These have no identity with Christ to be anointed of God themselves, all they know about Chroist is the laws they follow to regulate their beliefs of Christ. And these has changed the natural order of Gods SPirit to flesh, a man as a god, for it is the flesh man of law and sin they can identify with and not the SPirit who was in that man. And this is exactly how Jesus was made to be sin by the things he suffered is because they could relate to the laws for man as a sinner but could not relate to the Spirit man of God who is perfect and without sin.

And these are not going to listen Jesus to be identified by God with him in his way for them, that door is closed by their religious laws they have established to regulate their beliefes of him.

I know I am long winded sometimes but there is so much to be said about the deity of Christ at work in us.
 
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Algernon

Member
Yes totally for it is impossible to be in Christ and be in sin, for if it was that whould make Christ a sinner. And what most do not understand is that Christ is the disposition of man who is anointed of God. Christ in you is Gods anointing in you. But because religious folk has switched the meaning and has made the man who is anointed of God a god himself from ignorance in having the same from God that man named Jesus had from God.

Adam, Abraham, Moses, Job, Mary, Jesus, 120, all of these recieved the same SPirit of God as their own disposition for their actions were identified with Him.

When one will actually stop and analyze the before and after in all of these, especially Jesus when he coming out from teachings the law in the temples, even from a young age, and at his teachings after Matt 3:16 where God opend a whole new knowledge he had not known before his teachings changed from law to Spirit and the works of and if one will observe they will see that the very ones who once reverened for his knowledge of itheir law are the very ones who after had him crucified for blaspheme.

Religious folk today do the very same when one is actually recieves from God that what Jesus did from Him the righteousness of God in Christ as our own disposition as God origionall designed us to be in His same image. But because these have not recieved His same knowledge as these did, Christ sufferes through the hands of people who listen to someone else opinions about him that such as Paul and they do not go to the Father for themselves to know what it is to be the righteousness of God in Christ.

This mortal man with a carnal mind can never be perfected and never will be prefct and without sin for it is regulated by law. It is the Spirit man who can be perfected by Gods SPirit of Love and these who mock us who are anointed of God and without sin cannot relate because of the absence of that righteousness that comes by Gods Spirit and they treat us who are just as they treated jesus in his day no different at all. They accused him of blaspheme for having Gods SPirit and the same accuse me of blaspheme for having the same SPirit of God as my disposition.

These are assuming themselves to be in a certain condition they never have been in and the very reasn they cant relate to Jesus command to be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. That is impossible for these and thay have stated it many times here and even mock Jesus for he demands it of us.

These have no identity with Christ to be anointed of God themselves, all they know about Chroist is the laws they follow to regulate their beliefs of Christ. And these has changed the natural order of Gods SPirit to flesh, a man as a god, for it is the flesh man of law and sin they can identify with and not the SPirit who was in that man. And this is exactly how Jesus was made to be sin by the things he suffered is because they could relate to the laws for man as a sinner but could not relate to the Spirit man of God who is perfect and without sin.

And these are not going to listen Jesus to be identified by God with him in his way for them, that door is closed by their religious laws they have established to regulate their beliefes of him.

I know I am long winded sometimes but there is so much to be said about the deity of Christ at work in us.
There's definitely a wide gulf between the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry and the views of most Christians. Most not only can't hear His words, they have little to no interest in trying to do so. Like the Pharisees, they lack the humility to listen.

I'd like to better understand you position.

Let me ask you this. What do see as the requirement for receiving each of the following?
1) Eternal life
2) The spirit of truth

John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
51“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16“[And] I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth....
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words...

In the above, Jesus makes it clear that the requirement is that one cannot commit sin.
 

JAG

Member
God in the New Testament specifically says that , , ,

". . . from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are
able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of
God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy chapter 3

"All Scripture is God-breathed" refers to the Old Testament and the New
Testament and so all 66 books in the Holy Bible have one Author and
one consistent message.

The message of the Lord Jesus and His apostle Paul is the same message
and is settled doctrine and any position to the contrary is theological
heresy and false doctrine and ought to be dismissed as unworthy of
serious discussion.

There is no conflict between the Gospels and the Epistles -- all have
the same Author and they compliment each other.

It was the Lord Jesus Himself who called the Apostle Paul to be the
Great Apostle to the gentiles and it was the Holy Spirit Himself who
revealed Paul's message to Paul.

JAG

``
 

Algernon

Member
God in the New Testament specifically says that , , ,

". . . from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are
able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of
God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy chapter 3

"All Scripture is God-breathed" refers to the Old Testament and the New
Testament and so all 66 books in the Holy Bible have one Author and
one consistent message.

The message of the Lord Jesus and His apostle Paul is the same message
and is settled doctrine and any position to the contrary is theological
heresy and false doctrine and ought to be dismissed as unworthy of
serious discussion.

There is no conflict between the Gospels and the Epistles -- all have
the same Author and they compliment each other.

It was the Lord Jesus Himself who called the Apostle Paul to be the
Great Apostle to the gentiles and it was the Holy Spirit Himself who
revealed Paul's message to Paul.

JAG

``
None of your claims hold up under the light of truth. Some of the liberties taken are astoundingly fallacious.

2 Timothy 3
14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

For example, nowhere does it say that "All Scripture" is referring to both the OT and the NT. What's more, given the context of the reference to "sacred writings" known "from childhood" in 3:15, "All Scripture" could not be referring to the NT. The sacred writings that they have known from childhood would be the OT.

As another example, nowhere does it say that it is God speaking in 2 Timothy 3:16. It is the author of 2 Timothy making the claim and that author only. Traditionally that would be Paul.

As a third example, the claim that Paul was called by Jesus to be an apostle was also a claim made by Paul himself. It certainly wasn't made by Jesus while He was preaching His gospel during His ministry.

The rest is just as poorly reasoned. Your claims are built upon a foundation of sand.
 

JAG

Member
None of your claims hold up under the light of truth.
Truth according to YOU , , but , , , YOU are not the authority on
what is, or is not, the truth.


Some of the liberties taken are astoundingly fallacious.
False.
Astoundingly fallacious is the perfect description of your false doctrines.

2 Timothy 3
14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

For example, nowhere does it say that "All Scripture" is referring to both the OT and the NT.
That is true, but the principle of God-breathed scriptures are true for EVERYTHING that is
Holy Scripture and that includes the entire New Testament.

You can live in your world and I will live in my world.


What's more, given the context of the reference to "sacred writings" known "from childhood" in 3:15, "All Scripture" could not be referring to the NT. The sacred writings that they have known from childhood would be the OT.
Yes Paul's statement would refer to the Old Testament, the New Testament had not even
been completed when Paul wrote 2 Timothy -- but the principle of "God-breathed" would
apply fully to all 13 of Paul's letters and that truth, in my book settles the matter and ends any
serious discussion on this subject.
I will tell you up front that I will NOT take your views seriously.
For me this subject is settled and CLOSED.

As another example, nowhere does it say that it is God speaking in 2 Timothy 3:16. It is the author of 2 Timothy making the claim and that author only. Traditionally that would be Paul.
Paul wrote all his 13 epistles under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and any claim to the
contrary is heresy and false doctrine.

As a third example, the claim that Paul was called by Jesus to be an apostle was also a claim made by Paul himself.
A claim made under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and just as true as is John 3:16.
All 66 books of the Bible have One author and they are all equally "God-breathed" and this
truth settles the matter in my world and ends any serious discussion on this subject.

It certainly wasn't made by Jesus while He was preaching His gospel during His ministry.
The claim was made by the Lord Jesus in Acts which carries the same authority as the gospels and
to say other wise is heresy and false doctrines.

The rest is just as poorly reasoned. Your claims are built upon a foundation of sand.
False.
And false nonsense too.
You are are not my authority on what is, or is not, poor reasoning.
And YOUR views are built on the shifting sands of heresy and false doctrines.


JAG

Bible Verse For Today:
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as
there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly
introduce destructive heresies. . ."
1 Peter 1:1
.



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JAG

Member
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who
called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a
different gospel— which is really no gospel at all.

Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and
are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.


But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel

other than the one we preached to you,
let them be under God’s curse!

As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is

preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted,
let them be under God’s curse!

Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or
of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still
trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ."
__The Great Apostle Paul writing under the inspiration of
the Holy Spirit in Galatians 1:6-10

JAG

``
 

JAG

Member
The following passage from 2 Timothy refers to the heretics and
false teachers of the first century, but the principle is fully
applicable to heretics and false teachers here today in the
21st century , , , , ,

___________________________________________________________________________________

"In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the
living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom,
I give you this charge:

Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct,
rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound

doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around
them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears
want to hear.


They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the
work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."
2 Timothy 4:1-5
____________________________________________________________________________


It is heresy and serious false doctrine to teach that there is a difference
in the message of the Lord Jesus and in the message of the Apostle
Paul who was personally called and personally appointed by the Lord
Jesus Himself.

My view: This level of heresy is grounds for social-separation and grounds
for a formal breaking-of-fellowship if we were in a local church
setting , , , ,

, , , I would vote to excommunicate all those who "claimed to be Christians"
while at the same time teaching that the message of the Lord Jesus was a
different message from the message taught by Paul and ALL the other
Apostles that the Lord Jesus personally appointed and personally called
to be His Apostles.

People who teach this level of heresy and false doctrine ought to be barred
from church membership in any local Christian church.

My view that this level of heresy and false doctrine would not be tolerated by
any orthodox Bible believing Christian Church and the false teachers would
be rightly excommunicated -- however here inside Thread World on the Internet
At large there is provided a podium and a microphone for some of everything
on the planet no matter how strange and weird -- and no matter how heretical
and no matter what level of heresy and false doctrines is presented -- all can
have a soap box to hawk their heresy and false doctrines.

The heresy and false doctrine that says there is a difference in the message of
the Lord Jesus and in the message of His personally called and personally appointed
Apostles ---will destroy and wreck Christianity. This heresy de facto destroys the
credibility of the 13 epistles written by Paul and destroys and wrecks the New
Testament itself. Christianity cannot survive with a wrecked and destroyed New
Testament -- all of Christendom is built on the foundation of the APOSTLES and
prophets , , and Christ Jesus Himself is the chief cornerstone , , ,

"Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens
with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation
of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple
in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling
in which God lives by his Spirit."

Ephesians 2:19-22


JAG


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Gary Mac

Member
There's definitely a wide gulf between the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry and the views of most Christians. Most not only can't hear His words, they have little to no interest in trying to do so. Like the Pharisees, they lack the humility to listen.

I'd like to better understand you position.

Let me ask you this. What do see as the requirement for receiving each of the following?
1) Eternal life
2) The spirit of truth

Eternal life started in Adam and carries on today and will carry on tomorrow. Eternity is not a time frame is is recieving that what is already here.

The SPirit of truth can come only one way and that is if one actually follow Jesus in the way, the truth, and the life, we recieve from God and live it ourselves. There is no oter way to know Gods truths least your identity is with Him by the same Spirit be in you who was in Chriust Jesus. Anything beyond who God said you would be IF -- is man made docreines.
John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
51“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16“[And] I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth....
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words...

In the above, Jesus makes it clear that the requirement is that one cannot commit sin.
Yes impossible to be in sin if one is born of God, anointed of God as Jesus was born of Him and anointed of God, Jesus refered to this new birth as born again. See 1 John 3:9.
 

JAG

Member
Sayeth The Great Apostle Paul who was personally called and
personally appointed by the Lord Jesus Himself , , ,

"And we also thank God continually because, when you received
the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not
as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which
is indeed at work in you who believe." 1 Thessalonians 2:13

JAG

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JAG

Member
"For you know what instructions we gave you by
the authority of the LORD Jesus."
___The Apostle Paul
1 Thessalonians 4:2

JAG

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Gary Mac

Member
Sayeth The Great Apostle Paul who was personally called and
personally appointed by the Lord Jesus Himself , , ,

"And we also thank God continually because, when you received
the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not
as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God,
which
is indeed at work in you who believe." 1 Thessalonians 2:13

JAG

``
It is that heard from us that is to be aware of. Us as in Catholic, Baptists, Methodists, Muslims, AOGs, COCs, you name it, all of these has a different word dont they?

There is only one word of God and that comes by Gods SPirit Himself be in you. In that one can skip mans opinions about Him.
 

Gary Mac

Member
"For you know what instructions we gave you by
the authority of the LORD Jesus."
___The Apostle Paul
1 Thessalonians 4:2

JAG

``
Jim Jones and David Koresh made the same decleration didnt they? That does not mean it came from God.
If these such as Paul woukld have said instead, Go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you, then he wouild have spoken unbder the authoriety of Lord Jesus for Jesus n said the same, go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you.

Why cant people see that Jesus is the way? Paul is not the way Jesus is the way to the Father be in you Himself. He in you and you in Him as one. See Jesus in John 17. Most follow Paul instead of Jesus.
 
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