The Grand Canyon - Blowing chunks from both ends in hot seconds

inertia

Super Member
The Grand Canyon being an awe inspiring sculpted landscape over millions of years in the making has another surprise and previously undocumented feature this year*.

According to the Grand Canyon National Park Service, an outbreak of gastrointestinal sickness persevering for months and affecting a minimum of eight rafting trips (150 rafters), and a number of backcountry campers continues to ruin outdoor recreation with a vengeance.

- "It can spread from person to person directly, through contaminated food and water, or via contaminated surfaces." - Although not commonly life-threatening it tends to inflict a serious painful experience.

On the bright side, thanks to posted advisories, reports of illnesses have significantly decreased, but caution is still warranted.

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*Reference: Ars Technica
 

Nathan P

Active member
The Grand Canyon being an awe inspiring sculpted landscape over millions of years in the making has another surprise and previously undocumented feature this year*.

According to the Grand Canyon National Park Service, an outbreak of gastrointestinal sickness persevering for months and affecting a minimum of eight rafting trips (150 rafters), and a number of backcountry campers continues to ruin outdoor recreation with a vengeance.

- "It can spread from person to person directly, through contaminated food and water, or via contaminated surfaces." - Although not commonly life-threatening it tends to inflict a serious painful experience.

On the bright side, thanks to posted advisories, reports of illnesses have significantly decreased, but caution is still warranted.

___

*Reference: Ars Technica
There has never been enough water on earth naturally to supply a river with enough water to carve a path 280 or so miles long, ten miles wide and about a mile deep in so many millions of years.
 

inertia

Super Member
There has never been enough water on earth naturally to supply a river with enough water to carve a path 280 or so miles long, ten miles wide and about a mile deep in so many millions of years.

Hi Nathan P -

While I'm confident that there was enough water, I am hoping that you would clarify the phrase "not enough water on Earth naturally to supply a river". (italics mine)

Genesis 1:2 tells us that at one time the earth was in a state of darkness and covered in deep water. This is consistent with Job 38:9 that discusses the foundations of the earth, stating: “...when I made the storm clouds its garment, and thick darkness its swaddling band…” The deep-water description is also consistent with a relatively recent discovery in the Australian outback.

Inertia

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Nathan P

Active member
Hi Nathan P -

While I'm confident that there was enough water, I am hoping that you would clarify the phrase "not enough water on Earth naturally to supply a river". (italics mine)

Genesis 1:2 tells us that at one time the earth was in a state of darkness and covered in deep water. This is consistent with Job 38:9 that discusses the foundations of the earth, stating: “...when I made the storm clouds its garment, and thick darkness its swaddling band…” The deep-water description is also consistent with a relatively recent discovery in the Australian outback.

Inertia

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There has never been enough water on earth to supply any one river consistently with enough water to carve a path 280 or so miles long, 10 or so miles wide and about a mile deep. And the timeframe you are talking about was long before the grand canyon.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
There has never been enough water on earth to supply any one river consistently with enough water to carve a path 280 or so miles long, 10 or so miles wide and about a mile deep. And the timeframe you are talking about was long before the grand canyon.
Shortly after Noahs flood, a strong theory suggest that while the strata was not yet hardened rock...an earthen dam broke allowing what was once the Hopi and Grand Lakes to wash through the "grand canyon" area and remove the Noah flood sediment in a short amount of time.
The theorized "awe inspiring sculpted landscape over millions of years in the making" has many problems.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Shortly after Noahs flood, a strong theory suggest that while the strata was not yet hardened rock...an earthen dam broke allowing what was once the Hopi and Grand Lakes to wash through the "grand canyon" area and remove the Noah flood sediment in a short amount of time.
The theorized "awe inspiring sculpted landscape over millions of years in the making" has many problems.
If that theory is correct and there and there was not too much hardened rock. Yes that awe inspiring sculpted landscape happening over just millions of years has many problems.
 

inertia

Super Member
There has never been enough water on earth to supply any one river consistently with enough water to carve a path 280 or so miles long, 10 or so miles wide and about a mile deep. And the timeframe you are talking about was long before the grand canyon.

Okay, indeed that is your premise. I would like to read about the evidence that you may have to support your premise, and I am still curious about your phrase: "not enough water on Earth naturally to supply a river" because the phrase implies that the Grand Canyon is an unnatural geological feature - right?

Let's read Genesis 1:2 together:

"Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water." (NET)

"Now the eretz was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep. God's Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters." (HNV)

"And the earth was without forme, and voyd, and darkenesse was vpon the face of the deepe: and the Spirit of God mooued vpon the face of the waters." (KJV, 1611)

.........

After the initial creation event in Genesis 1:1, Genesis 1:2 describes a deep water condition with the Spirit of God moving over the waters. Notice that the word "eretz" used in the HNV. It's appropriate because it is the Hebrew word used here and as it means "land". At this juncture, the land (eretz) had no form and was void precisely because it was under deep dark water.

What is remarkable is that this ancient description is consistent with a number of scientific recent discoveries indicating that water once covered the planet. Based on what the Bible states and recent studies, there was clearly more than enough water available to slowly begin the process that eventually formed this remarkable geological feature.

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Nathan P

Active member
Okay, indeed that is your premise. I would like to read about the evidence that you may have to support your premise, and I am still curious about your phrase: "not enough water on Earth naturally to supply a river" because the phrase implies that the Grand Canyon is an unnatural geological feature - right?

Let's read Genesis 1:2 together:

"Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water." (NET)

"Now the eretz was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep. God's Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters." (HNV)

"And the earth was without forme, and voyd, and darkenesse was vpon the face of the deepe: and the Spirit of God mooued vpon the face of the waters." (KJV, 1611)

.........

After the initial creation event in Genesis 1:1, Genesis 1:2 describes a deep water condition with the Spirit of God moving over the waters. Notice that the word "eretz" used in the HNV. It's appropriate because it is the Hebrew word used here and as it means "land". At this juncture, the land (eretz) had no form and was void precisely because it was under deep dark water.

What is remarkable is that this ancient description is consistent with a number of scientific recent discoveries indicating that water once covered the planet. Based on what the Bible states and recent studies, there was clearly more than enough water available to slowly begin the process that eventually formed this remarkable geological feature.

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We are talking about when the grand canyon formed and not right after when the initial creation event happened. They say the Colorado river formed the grand canyon millions of years later and there was never enough water in that area to form something 280 or so miles long, about ten miles wide and about a mile deep through a lot of solid rock.
 

inertia

Super Member
We are talking about when the grand canyon formed and not right after when the initial creation event happened. They say the Colorado river formed the grand canyon millions of years later and there was never enough water in that area to form something 280 or so miles long, about ten miles wide and about a mile deep through a lot of solid rock.

According to the last link I provided:

"The general scientific consensus, updated at a 2010 conference, holds that the Colorado River carved the Grand Canyon beginning 5 million to 6 million years ago.

However, recent advances in dating techniques have upended the notion of a uniformly young Grand Canyon. The new approach determines when erosion uncovered rocks in the canyon. The big picture: there were two ancestral canyons, one in the west and one in the east. And the western canyon may be as old as 70 million years."

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The Pixie

Well-known member
According to the last link I provided:

"The general scientific consensus, updated at a 2010 conference, holds that the Colorado River carved the Grand Canyon beginning 5 million to 6 million years ago.

However, recent advances in dating techniques have upended the notion of a uniformly young Grand Canyon. The new approach determines when erosion uncovered rocks in the canyon. The big picture: there were two ancestral canyons, one in the west and one in the east. And the western canyon may be as old as 70 million years."

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It would also be worth knowing how old the layers the river cuts through are. I the flood model, the layers were laid down, and then the river cut through them, all in the course of just one year.
 

Nathan P

Active member
According to the last link I provided:

"The general scientific consensus, updated at a 2010 conference, holds that the Colorado River carved the Grand Canyon beginning 5 million to 6 million years ago.

However, recent advances in dating techniques have upended the notion of a uniformly young Grand Canyon. The new approach determines when erosion uncovered rocks in the canyon. The big picture: there were two ancestral canyons, one in the west and one in the east. And the western canyon may be as old as 70 million years."

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So they are saying the Colorado river was about ten miles wide and a mile deep and however long for 5 to 6 million years?
 

inertia

Super Member
So they are saying the Colorado river was about ten miles wide and a mile deep and however long for 5 to 6 million years?

The temporal dynamics is complex. Using thermochonological zircon (U-Th)/He dating researchers from the University of Colorado, Boulder, investigated the canyon's erosion history below an exposed region called "the Great Unconformity" that stretches along its length. The oldest measurements showed a 809 ± 25 Ma history with patterns that differ from 100's of kilometers to 10's of kilometers.

A nontechnical description is provided ----> here.

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