The Heresy of the Seventh day Adventist Church!
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
- Start date
SDAchristian
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Thanks, never did that well in spelling!
SDAchristian
Member
Prologue:
AV Hb 9:14-17 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Is there such a thing as ex post facto in the Bible ??? <<< If seems nebulous to any, just ask for context.
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Are Jesus' words are a high precedence than Paul's words in the Gospel taught by Jesus in "the revelation" ???
AV Isa 1:18-20 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].
First thought of reasoning.
When you mention "to be saved" is one way to look at it. Then as contrast, "to them that are lost" is another way of looking at it.
AV Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
A Christian perspective from the RCC calls keeping sabbath, a judaizing heresy, therefore a sin. Do you believe keeping sabbath as a judaizing heresy from your point of view, while not "speaking [thine own] words:" ???
Is Jesus guilty of "keeping sabbath as a judaizing heresy" as sin, in your point of view ???
"the Sabbath requirement to be saved", Is Jesus' righteousness in sabbath keeping save you ???
AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Is it a sin, to follow in Jesus' footsteps in keeping sabbath ???
"... and make keeping of the Sabbath requirement to be saved!": Your answer from Jesus' own words.
AV Mt 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Does sunday keeping works/"fruits" is part of saving you or keep you from being "cast into the fire" ???
Does sabbath keeping good works/"fruits" is part of saving you or keep you from being "cast into the fire" ???
AV Isa 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
AV Hb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man{G444 anthropos}, and not man{G444 anthropos} for the sabbath:
Interesting word study: What is the Hebrew word for man ???
AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Did GOD "lie" about "my holy day" at any time from Creation to "the new earth" ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Hb 9:14-17 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Is there such a thing as ex post facto in the Bible ??? <<< If seems nebulous to any, just ask for context.
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Are Jesus' words are a high precedence than Paul's words in the Gospel taught by Jesus in "the revelation" ???
AV Isa 1:18-20 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].
First thought of reasoning.
AV 2C 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
When you mention "to be saved" is one way to look at it. Then as contrast, "to them that are lost" is another way of looking at it.
AV Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
A Christian perspective from the RCC calls keeping sabbath, a judaizing heresy, therefore a sin. Do you believe keeping sabbath as a judaizing heresy from your point of view, while not "speaking [thine own] words:" ???
Is Jesus guilty of "keeping sabbath as a judaizing heresy" as sin, in your point of view ???
"the Sabbath requirement to be saved", Is Jesus' righteousness in sabbath keeping save you ???
AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Is it a sin, to follow in Jesus' footsteps in keeping sabbath ???
"... and make keeping of the Sabbath requirement to be saved!": Your answer from Jesus' own words.
AV Mt 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Does sunday keeping works/"fruits" is part of saving you or keep you from being "cast into the fire" ???
Does sabbath keeping good works/"fruits" is part of saving you or keep you from being "cast into the fire" ???
AV Isa 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
AV Hb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man{G444 anthropos}, and not man{G444 anthropos} for the sabbath:
Interesting word study: What is the Hebrew word for man ???
AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Did GOD "lie" about "my holy day" at any time from Creation to "the new earth" ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Member
That is why I have a free spell checker. I have not invested in a grammar checker yet, but I do need it, as well.
If any thing I write seems confusing, let me know where I lost you on which idea, and will do my best in apologetics to clear it up.
Yours in Christ, Michael
Gen, 18:17
And the Lord said,
Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation,
and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him,
and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment;
that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
20 And the Lord said,
Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great,
and because their sin is very grievous;
-----------------
But that Lot might be a Raven; and lying to me
--- SO ---
21 I will go down now, and see
whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it,
which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad,
that he said,
Escape for thy life; look not behind thee,
neither stay thou in all the plain;
escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
----- BUT, But, But; plz Lord----
Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one:
Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
Gen, 18:17
And the Lord said,
Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
But Lot had to Flee the "Sister Cities" of Sodom also
for they too suffered the same as "Their Mother"
to the Harlot daughters of Rome
"You have seen what I did to your Mother
and you do even worse"
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Could you point to the place in your post that answered the OP?
SDAchristian
Member
Which part of the OP ???
Plural indicates multiple main points, Agree ???
With a hint, that other point(s) could apply as minor point(s), Agree ???
First point in main OP, Agree ???
Second point in main OP, Agree ???
Third point in main OP, Agree ???
Are we clear about the original poster's main points, that the expectation is to be answered ???
Do you need help from me to identify the point I answered in the post you questioned ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Member
Prologue:
AV Isa 1:18-20 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].
Second thought of reasoning.
Please think this through thoroughly !!!
A Bible definition from a "Born again of the Spirit" John, Bible writer for sin.
AV Ja 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Where do we find these sins spoken by GOD ???
"For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also,", AV Ex 20:8-9 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:", "thou art become a transgressor of the law".
Is "the law of liberty" are the same as the Decalogue ???
"liberty" from what ???
The definition of sin, comes from the Decalogue. The definition of the sin, of which Sunday breaking is not found in the Bible, because there is no law for Sunday keeping.
AV Ja 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
For continued discussion of heresies: Did the "The Holy Spirit" guide "James 1:5" in whole Book of James ???
Are heresies, defined by a whole definition of sin ???
Please defend your answer with GOD's words Only: Is it a sin, to break the sabbath commandment, or not ???
AV Ex 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.
AV Ex 31:16-17 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. 17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Is this "perpetual covenant" still binding to GOD's participation of "doth sanctify you" ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Isa 1:18-20 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].
Second thought of reasoning.
Please think this through thoroughly !!!
AV 1Jn 3:4-5 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
A Bible definition from a "Born again of the Spirit" John, Bible writer for sin.
AV Ja 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Where do we find these sins spoken by GOD ???
"For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also,", AV Ex 20:8-9 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:", "thou art become a transgressor of the law".
Is "the law of liberty" are the same as the Decalogue ???
"liberty" from what ???
The definition of sin, comes from the Decalogue. The definition of the sin, of which Sunday breaking is not found in the Bible, because there is no law for Sunday keeping.
AV Ja 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
For continued discussion of heresies: Did the "The Holy Spirit" guide "James 1:5" in whole Book of James ???
Are heresies, defined by a whole definition of sin ???
Please defend your answer with GOD's words Only: Is it a sin, to break the sabbath commandment, or not ???
AV Ex 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.
AV Ex 31:16-17 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. 17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Is this "perpetual covenant" still binding to GOD's participation of "doth sanctify you" ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
e v e
Well-known member
i’ve no idea what sda believe. souls don’t go to heaven by denomination last i heard. all i care about is souls, not groups. i do know that Michael in this forum has been kind to me. A rare thing.
what i care about is that soon His 144k sons are leaving this wretched earth and will have their Change and be with God.
What does sda say about the 144k and the change. Thanks.
SDAchristian
Member
SDAchristian
Member
AV Hb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
This a group, Right ???
AV Re 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
"His 144k sons", Are a very special group in the reCreation(Earth made new), Right ???
AV Mt 25:32-33 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
My point being, if we define groups like GOD does, Right ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Member
May I return that compliment to you ???
AV Eph 3:17-19 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
You are rare in my thinking because your knowledge base extends outside "the breadth, and length, and depth, and height" of others, when it should be more common in all believers.
You are able to grasp concepts of Eden, as in pre-fall humanity, and connect them to reCreation in the new earth, aka New Eden, in language too often misunderstood by others.
I will remind you, we have a sabbatical to discuss higher concepts, when you are available, and I'm available too.
Yours in Christ, Michael
e v e
Well-known member
His people are - israel and judah - but not as denominations... those are a human thing.AV Hb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
This a group, Right ???
AV Re 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
"His 144k sons", Are a very special group in the reCreation(Earth made new), Right ???
AV Mt 25:32-33 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
My point being, if we define groups like GOD does, Right ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
what say ye?
e v e
Well-known member
thank you. if not for He I could not have learned of eden. where we are going soon.
we can have a sabbatical when you want.
I’m just at home here making coffee and looking out to window at the birds... haha.
e v e
Well-known member
very special and soon we will be saved from here... and restored to each our imperishable bodyAV Hb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
This a group, Right ???
AV Re 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
"His 144k sons", Are a very special group in the reCreation(Earth made new), Right ???
AV Mt 25:32-33 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
My point being, if we define groups like GOD does, Right ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Hi Eve, almost all SDAs I have rubbed elbows are kind lovable people. That really impressed me when studying with them years ago. I joined the church because of this kindness and at the time I believed we had to abide by the old covenant ten commandments including the fourth one. Today I go directly to scripture to find out how Jesus would have me live my life. The 144,000 is certainly not even a spot in all that will enter into our eternal home. I trust Jesus words in Jn 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. and Jn3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. We don't have to "speculate" as to who will have eternal life; we have the promise from the One who has made it possible. Amen!
e v e
Well-known member
His only covenant only ever has been for us to return to eden.
Only sin and death as satanic law were annulled. His law never changed and is valid.
The 144k (israel and judah) will go to the change soon (could be much higher number plus includes the girls) and then in their imperishable being again, that which had been lost at the fall, as His two witnesses return with Him to gather many more millions.
thank you for writing.
Sorry Eve, the way I read scripture Israel and Judah come to Him the same was Gentiles do. We are all His special people. We are all invited.His people are - israel and judah - but not as denominations... those are a human thing.
SDAchristian
Member
AV Ro 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:His people are - israel and judah - but not as denominations... those are a human thing.
Type and anti-type are concepts to express spiritual ideas to to be grasped by fallen human minds.
Yours in Christ, Michael