e v e 21
Well-known member
then in your version... satan got to decide...
I will stay with His version...
I will stay with His version...
christ_undivided
Well-known member
So you believe you have more power from the Spirit of God than I do?
What exactly is the difference in your claims of me and your own claims of yourself?
I stay away claiming Spiritual superiority in anything. I'm not God. Apparently YOU are.
You can ask anyone that knows me, and they will tell you this is not true. What I said isn't filthy. One more false claim on your part. I suppose God lead you to do that.... "right"?
I'm simply me. What I say is either right or wrong. I blame God with my inaccuracies not take credit when I'm right. I just make it about me. One day God will speak of us all. I don't believe anyone will have their "pom poms" out cheering someone on.
christ_undivided
Well-known member
You don't even understand the "fall of man". Adam was mutable. He proved by sinning.
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
LOL, of course he was, for if he wasn't he wouldn't have sinned, and this was because God made him neutral towards God and gave him free choice.
The Jews in what they believe about this come very close to the truth.
So you are not telling me anything that I don't know, you just always think you are all the time and that comes naturally with those who learn by there own self effort and learning processes instead of by what God reveals to them by his Spirit and according to their pressing into God for it by faith.
My point was that Adam and Eve were never created already having an inter relationship with God or having eternal life and like your churches falsely believe about it.
My other point was that Eden was not to be their permanent home either but it was only he place where they would be tested.
christ_undivided
Well-known member
Geesh.... God is a Spirit, how in the world can you claim the lack of a inter relationship? You have no idea what you're talking about.
I thought we are going to dwell in the NEW JERUSALEM the City that we all seek? and it's coming here, on the NEW planet Earth, correct. Isaiah 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."
Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."
Revelation 21:2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
but if you have something difference from the scriptures, please post it.
e v e 21
Well-known member
I thought we are going to dwell in the NEW JERUSALEM the City that we all seek? and it's coming here, on the NEW planet Earth, correct. Isaiah 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."
Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."
Revelation 21:2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
but if you have something difference from the scriptures, please post it.
Eden is made new = new Eden
and is His New Creation
made New...
Eden was Never on this earth..
we left eden...
e v e 21
Well-known member
adam will lose it, but he not yet has he lost dominion
adam betrayed God , turning to the Sin realm,
of the fallen angels..
he will soon become mutable...
where is that in scripture?
Genesis 2:8 "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."
if u have scripture that say otherwise, please post them.
e v e 21
Well-known member
the quote doesn't indicate this current reality as being where eden iswhere is that in scripture?
Genesis 2:8 "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."
if u have scripture that say otherwise, please post them.
IEUE (God) is restoring His creation , not 'doing something else based on what satan did'.
this is not chess.
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
What? Satan only got to decide to tempt Adam and Eve but it was Adam and Eve that decided on whether they would obey God or not and they chose not to obey him and Satan didn't make them do this either.
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
LOL, it is obvious they didn't have an inner relationship with God because they didn't have eternal life, for eternal life isn't just some thing that God gives us, but it is God's own life dwelling within believers, and the breath of life was only temporary life given for the test and therefore only to last for a short while after they had sinned.
It is also obvious that the Tree of Life represented God's Holy Spirit and his indwelling if they ate of it and if you can't see this being the Bible speaks of the fruit of the Spirit, then you are really much more ignorant than I originally knew that you are by your other arguments.
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christ_undivided
Well-known member
So God didn't have any relationship to the Spirit He gave them personally? He "BREATHED" into their lungs Himself. God didn't BREATH into your lungs.
You say you taught somewhere?
All these "allegorical"... and "metaphorical" representations...... Do you even know if you're actually real or not?
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
What he gave them was only a breath from the Spirit but he did have an outward relationship with Adam and Eve but not an inward relationship.
That is what Paul speaks of the fruit of the Spirit because the Tree of Life and it's fruit represented The Holy Spirit and the eternal life of God.
If Adam have been given the Spirit, then he wouldn't have died at all being he would have been given it before he sinned.
God never intended for man to have an inner relationship with him unless man chose to have that relationship by obedience to the single commandment that God gave him and through eating of the Tree of Life after he obeyed but God also knew in advance that Adam would not choose it.
Furthermore Adam and Eve as they were originally created couldn't have obeyed God anyhow because they had no power to resist in their flesh yet, but what they could have don't and should have done but didn't, was to run back to God and tell him that they were weak and then God would have taken them over to the Tree of Life and that would have settled the issue of their test once and for all.
All God wanted them to do through the commandment and the temptation to break the commandment is the same thing he wanted Israel to see when he gave them the law, and that is the Holiness of God in the Law and their weakness to be able to obey it and this is what God wanted from Adam and Eve also.
Then they would have returned to God and sought help to overcome the temptation from the Devil but they didn't.
christ_undivided
Well-known member
You can't possibly prove this. Either logically or Scripturally.
God had fellowship with Adam and Eve because of the Spirit He gave them. The worshipped Him because of the Spirit He gave them.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
There is no relationship to God without it being a Spiritual relationship.
That is your "story/tale". There is nothing in the canonical narrative given to us by God that says such a thing. Are you reading "Sefer Yetzirah"?
Okay. Our conversation is over. Old man, enjoy your life.
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
If you don't believe what Jesus said in John 17:3, John 5:26 and John 6:57 then yes and it goes without having to explain it either
There is a lot of difference, for in the way you believe, one cannot know what you do unless he goes to school or is taught by people like you and some don't have that kind of money nor the ability to learn this way but the way I believe, God's knowledge is accessible to any believer who dares to by faith seek and ask and wait upon God to receive it from God.
For there is no respect of persons with God and in fact God chooses the weak and foolish things of this world to confound the wisdom of the wise anyhow.
No but instead you claim intellectual superiority instead and which is no different.
Furthermore, I have never claimed spiritual superiority in the first place because as I said and will again, the way I learn from God is accessible to every true born again believer if he or she chooses to ask and seek and wait upon God in complete trust that God is able to deliver to them that knowledge.
Yes it was filthy and not something that a believer should use as an illustration at all and I don't give a hoot what other people who know you would say about that either, for that is completely irrelevant to what is right and wrong for believers to do and say.
Sorry but I don't buy it and the reason why, is because I have heard you many times over now, comparing yourself with me and telling me that you are trained and I am not and therefore I can't possible know what I am talking about and which boasting in the flesh and also total nonsense as well.
christ_undivided
Well-known member
I would give you references to the contrary but I sure you would claim "God" would tell you differently.
I'm only responding to deal with your false accusation of me being "filthy". Other than that, I have no interest in conversation with you. Claim victory and disparage Jesus Christ so more.
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Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
I already did and it has nothing to do with human logic either but what can be seen right from the very narrative but only by those who are being led by the Spirit of God instead of the flesh when examining it and which you prove not to be doing.
You say that I can't prove what I have shown from the narrative and so how can you prove what you are believing about it?
You can't and you believe it because that is what you have been pre indoctrinated to believe by the majority but Jesus very clearly revealed that the majority will not get the truth but only a remnant from every generation instead and that is Bible truth.
Can you show me where either Adam or Eve actually worshiped God between the time they were created and when they chose to sin against him?
Well that would be true if we were speaking of those who were already sinners, but we as speaking of Adam who was not created as a sinner but rather neutral and without any sin originally and that makes all the difference in the world.
LOL, for even now, that is the way it is also, for God requires man to choose whether he will have a relationship with God or not albeit that God moves man to make that decision through his life circumstances and especially through experiences with other people all through his life.
Nevertheless, God still requires man to make that choice after God does all of this to turn him to repentance and faith.
Hey that is fine with me for I find your attitude to be quite obnoxious anyhow.
christ_undivided
Well-known member
Teach thyself. Teacher.......
You don't need my help do you....
Isa 43:7 everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made.”
Isa 43:21 the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.
Psalm 66:4 All the earth worships you and sings praises to you; they sing praises to your name.” Selah
Psalm 150:6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord! Praise the Lord!