The Immaculate Conception

Blessings8

Well-known member
A person will walk in the works prepared for him BECAUSE he is saved, not to be saved.

Same with baptism....we are baptized because we are saved, not to be saved.
But they will have both. and if one does not, they are not saved.

In the end whether catholic or Nc, both will have good works and be baptized.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
But they will have both. and if one does not, they are not saved.

Not true....baptism doesn't save. Grace through faith does. Not being baptized doesn't negate salvation via grace through faith. Now, I have yet to meet a person born from above that has refused to be water baptised.
In the end whether catholic or Nc, both will have good works and be baptized.

Not necessarily.

We are to preach the Gospel, the Good News....the death, burial and resurrection of Christ....anyone that believes this is saved.
 

Blessings8

Well-known member
Not true....baptism doesn't save. Grace through faith does. Not being baptized doesn't negate salvation via grace through faith. Now, I have yet to meet a person born from above that has refused to be water baptised.


Not necessarily.

We are to preach the Gospel, the Good News....the death, burial and resurrection of Christ....anyone that believes this is saved.
A nc who is saved will have good works and be baptized, correct?
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
Whole households were baptized. Do not households have infants?
Can a person's faith save another?
Infants were not baptized. Whole households of people who can make an informed decision, could. So in these households where infants resided, did they, too speak in other tongues as the Holy Spirit gave utterance when He fell upon them? The infants certainly didn't. The ceremony of baptism doesn't save a person. It is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that does that. Baptism is a sign that a person has died and is risen to new life. It is the outward sign of the inward reality.

And you still didn't answer my question as to whether you were baptized as an infant or a person capable of making an informed personal choice. Would appreciate an answer.
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
Oh lol, I see. it is only NCs that can interpret the bible correctly. You are infallible. Even explicit texts do not mean what they say? Then why ask for explicit texts from Catholics?
What was the context of the explicit text? If you just sling out a verse-- much like several of the Mormon apologists do-- it will say one thing until examined in context.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
Infants were not baptized. Whole households of people who can make an informed decision, could. So in these households where infants resided, did they, too speak in other tongues as the Holy Spirit gave utterance when He fell upon them? The infants certainly didn't. The ceremony of baptism doesn't save a person. It is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that does that. Baptism is a sign that a person has died and is risen to new life. It is the outward sign of the inward reality.

And you still didn't answer my question as to whether you were baptized as an infant or a person capable of making an informed personal choice. Would appreciate an answer.
That distinction is not made in Scripture. It is imposed by Protestants who do not have the keys of the kingdom and therefore do not have the authority to teach, govern and sanctify.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
The person who believes IN and TRUSTS God explicitly, does not run to mary, dead people, institution, scapulars, relics, etc.... saying with his or her mouth that it was really all these other things that saved him or her instead of Jesus. Neither do they keep the gospel message hidden away or lie or try to trick people.
Europe is still full of competing shrines and often duplicating and spurious relics. Millions of European Catholics still take their saints and their holidays along with their relics very seriously.
In America, the veneration of relics is considered to be one of the most primitive and anti-scientific things in Roman Catholicism.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
December 8th is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception in which the Church celebrates the dogma which states that the Blessed Virgin Mary was preserved, in the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of God Omnipotent and because of the merits of Jesus Christ the Saviour of the human race, free from all stain of original sin.

The Blessed Virgin Mary is the Ark of the Covenant and was to be the dwelling place of the Word made Flesh, True God and true Man, and could, as a consequence, have no divine hatred or malediction, no stain on the soul, could never be in a state of non-justice or spiritual death, or under the subject of the empire of Satan, or subject to the law of concupiscence, or under the penalty of the common sin.

These effects presuppose the loss of the sanctifying grace, but the Blessed Virgin Mary is God's most perfect creation and is loved more by Him than all the saints and angels combined.

In the Bull, Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius IX states: "From the very beginning, and before time began, the eternal Father chose and prepared for his only-begotten Son a Mother in whom the Son of God would become incarnate and from whom, in the blessed fullness of time, he would be born into this world. Above all creatures did God so loved her that truly in her was the Father well pleased with singular delight. Therefore, far above all the angels and all the saints so wondrously did God endow her with the abundance of all heavenly gifts poured from the treasury of his divinity that this mother, ever absolutely free of all stain of sin, all fair and perfect, would possess that fullness of holy innocence and sanctity than which, under God, one cannot even imagine anything greater, and which, outside of God, no mind can succeed in comprehending fully."

Ora pro nobis, sancta Dei Genetrix!
Mary in her "Immaculate Conception" is idolatrously symbolized in the Roman Catholic Church by a 'moon.' The RCC quotes from the Old Testament: ("Who is she that comes forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon." Song of Solomon)"; often a crescent, under her feet (". . . a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet." Rev. 12:1); purity; eclipsed at the crucifixion, on one side of the cross, opposite the sun; in creation and judgment scenes. Used in one of its pagan forms:

!. New (or invisible)
2. Crescent, or waxing (with horns upward)
3. Decrescent, or waning (with horms sinister or leftward)
4. First, last quarter, or half moon
5. Gibbous, or more than half
6. Full
 

BornAgainRN

Active member
The Blessed Virgin Mary's closest relations are literally the Holy Trinity. She is the spouse of the Holy Ghost, the beloved daughter of God the Father and the Mother of God, Jesus Christ, God and man.
Think through this for just a second. Theologically, if Mary is the SPOUSE of the Holy Spirit, the beloved DAUGHTER of God the Father, and MOTHER of Jesus Christ, then theologically, what would be the relationship between God the Father & Jesus Christ, if Mary is the DAUGHTER of God the Father & MOTHER of Jesus Christ?
 
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