The Immaculate Conception

No, no marital imagery. Is that your own idea, or are you regurgitating Catholic talking points?

Overshadow of Mary simply means the Holy Spirit will cause her to become pregnant with the Messiah, by His holy power. Nothing "marital" about that.
"Overshadow" is imagery. I'm sorry that you can't see what the early Church Fathers saw.
 
"Overshadow" is imagery. I'm sorry that you can't see what the early Church Fathers saw.
Yes, it IS imagery, but NOT marital imagery! That is just your fevered imagination, in your effort to find something, anything, no matter how foolish, to justify your church's false teaching of the HS being Mary's spouse. Your church then blatantly makes her a bigamist! Utterly shameful!
 
What works did the thief on the cross do? He came to believe in Jesus at the last hour of his life. Remember, he and the other thief had been hurling insults at Jesus, but this thief repented and turned to Jesus in faith.

So, what good works did the thief do? Was he baptized?

What about people who come to believe in Jesus Christ on their deathbeds and die right afterwards. What good works did they do? What if they die in faith but before they can be baptized?
Baptism is a work?

Also, the CC teaches baptism by desire. The Thief had faith and desire to be with Christ.

People who die without baptism but desire to can be saved.

NCs say one has to have faith. right? What of people who do not understand, like mentally ill people? What of severely mentally retarded people? What if someone never truly understands what faith is, or who Jesus is because of an inability to do so? It is the same situation. God is outside of time. He is outside of the 'regular' means that most of us live by. God alone is judge of our hearts.
 
Baptism is a work?

No.
Also, the CC teaches baptism by desire. The Thief had faith and desire to be with Christ.

But he still was not baptized. We don't even know if he even knew about baptism.
People who die without baptism but desire to can be saved.

What if they know nothing about it, but die in faith right after coming to faith in Jesus Christ?
NCs say one has to have faith. right? What of people who do not understand, like mentally ill people?

Salvation is not based upon our ability to understand everything.
What of severely mentally retarded people? What if someone never truly understands what faith is, or who Jesus is because of an inability to do so?

Then they are in Jesus' hands and mercy--the best place to be.
It is the same situation. God is outside of time. He is outside of the 'regular' means that most of us live by. God alone is judge of our hearts.
I agree. I never said otherwise.
 
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Baptism is a work?

Also, the CC teaches baptism by desire. The Thief had faith and desire to be with Christ.

People who die without baptism but desire to can be saved.

NCs say one has to have faith. right? What of people who do not understand, like mentally ill people? What of severely mentally retarded people? What if someone never truly understands what faith is, or who Jesus is because of an inability to do so? It is the same situation. God is outside of time. He is outside of the 'regular' means that most of us live by. God alone is judge of our hearts.
Have you ever heard of God being RIGHTEOUS? That means He ALWAYS does the right thing. God will do whatever He deems right in those cases. And whatever He does WILL be right according to His righteousness. He does not need our thoughts or opinions in order to do anything He chooses to do!
 
But he still was not baptized. We didn't even know if he even knew about baptism.
=============================================
the Wise and the Foolish
Ecc.10:1
Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour:
so doth a little folly him that is in reputation for wisdom and honour.

2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand;
but a fool's heart at his left.

--------------The Two Malefactors------------
And with him they crucify two thieves;
the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.

Lord,
remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him,
Verily I say unto thee,
Today shalt thou be with me in paradise
.

Question:
which malefactor was on the Right ???????????????????
 
You must not have carefully read what I wrote. And again, nothing about Mary being sinless.

ok, let us again read carefully the verse...

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman*, and between your offspring and hers**; They will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel.

* in the first pronouncement, the enmity is between the devil and the woman
** in the second pronouncement, the enmity is between the offspring of the devil and the offspring of the woman

both mother and son are in total opposition with satan. they both shared this total opposition to satan.
therefore, if the mother or the son has even just one minor sin, we cannot say that they are in total opposition to the devil.
 
Because it is. There is no hint of it in Scriptures. Unless you can show it to us FROM the Bible. NOT ECFs or the CCC or from other Catholic writers--from the Bible.

Except it isn't. Not even a hint of it, in the Bible.

ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. In ALL the Bible, ONLY ONE PERSON is ever said to be completely without sin--Jesus Christ.
Genesis 3: 15
 
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.

ramcam2 said:
ok, let us again read carefully the verse...

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman*, and between your offspring and hers**; They will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel.

* in the first pronouncement, the enmity is between the devil and the woman
** in the second pronouncement, the enmity is between the offspring of the devil and the offspring of the woman
Ram says
ok, let us again read carefully the verse...
===================================

yes Ram;
lets do that

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman*, and between your offspring and hers**; They will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel.

from the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
I will put enmities between thee and the woman,​
and thy seed and her seed:​
(EVE , the Wife of Adam, not his Mother)
she shall crush thy head,​
and thou (the serpent) shalt lie in wait for her heel.​

Eve's heel the wife of Adam;
not his Mother

Ram;
you make a HUGH deal of the word "Woman"
and how Christ refered to Mary as Woman
well how about this one

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery;​
and when they had set her in the midst,​
4 They say unto him,​
Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.​
...​
When Jesus had lifted up himself,​
and saw none but the woman, he said unto her,​
Woman, where are those thine accusers?
hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord.
And Jesus said unto her,
Neither do I condemn thee:
go, and sin no more.​

Was the ""Woman"" Mary, mother of Christ ?????
speak up Ram;
==================================================


-------------Posters----------------
it will be these, ---------------

Romans 16:19​
For your obedience is come abroad unto all men.​
I am glad therefore on your behalf:​
but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good,​
and simple concerning evil.​
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.​
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.​

yes; there are many in the RCC
that God will use to
""bruise"" the Head of Satan

as Paul has said
"The churches of Christ salute you"
 
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And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.


ramcam2 said:
ok, let us again read carefully the verse...

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman*, and between your offspring and hers**; They will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel.

* in the first pronouncement, the enmity is between the devil and the woman
** in the second pronouncement, the enmity is between the offspring of the devil and the offspring of the woman
Ram says
ok, let us again read carefully the verse...
===================================

yes Ram;
lets do that

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman*, and between your offspring and hers**; They will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel.

from the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
I will put enmities between thee and the woman,​
and thy seed and her seed:​
(EVE , the Wife of Adam, not his Mother)
she shall crush thy head,​
and thou (the serpent) shalt lie in wait for her heel.​

Eve's heel the wife of Adam;
not his Mother

Ram;
you make a HUGH deal of the word "Woman"
and how Christ refered to Mary as Woman
well how about this one

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery;​
and when they had set her in the midst,​
4 They say unto him,​
Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.​
...​
When Jesus had lifted up himself,​
and saw none but the woman, he said unto her,​
Woman, where are those thine accusers?
hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord.
And Jesus said unto her,
Neither do I condemn thee:
go, and sin no more.​

Was the ""Woman"" Mary, mother of Christ ?????
speak up Ram;
==================================================


-------------Posters----------------
it will be these, ---------------

Romans 16:19​
For your obedience is come abroad unto all men.​
I am glad therefore on your behalf:​
but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good,​
and simple concerning evil.​
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.​
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.​

yes; there are many in the RCC
that God will use to
""bruise"" the Head of Satan

as Paul has said
"The churches of Christ salute you"
The Douay-Rheims bible translaters got it wrong--SHE Will not crush the serpent's head--HE will, meaning the Messiah.
 
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Buzzard said:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.
KJV

it says "Bruise" not crush
that is not a killing blow
just a Bruise

as Paul says;
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Rev.13:12​
------------the 2nd Beast of Rev .-----------​
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him,​
and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast,​
whose deadly wound was healed.​

Martin Luther only "Bruised" the Papacy

Romans 10:15​
How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace,​
"and thou shalt bruise his heel."

unfortunately the Feet of the reformers took a bad Bruising also

as Isaiah says
Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina,
because the rod of him that smote thee is broken:
for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice,
and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.​

this happens later​
For, behold, the day cometh,​
that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud,​
yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble:​
and the day that cometh shall burn them up,​
saith the Lord of hosts,​
that it shall leave them​
neither root nor branch.​

that Christ will do​
//​
 
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ok, let us again read carefully the verse...

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman*, and between your offspring and hers**; They will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel.

* in the first pronouncement, the enmity is between the devil and the woman
** in the second pronouncement, the enmity is between the offspring of the devil and the offspring of the woman

both mother and son are in total opposition with satan. they both shared this total opposition to satan.
therefore, if the mother or the son has even just one minor sin, we cannot say that they are in total opposition to the devil.
Nope. Reading much into that. Eisegesis, not exegesis.
 
ok, let us again read carefully the verse...

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman*, and between your offspring and hers**; They will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel.

* in the first pronouncement, the enmity is between the devil and the woman
** in the second pronouncement, the enmity is between the offspring of the devil and the offspring of the woman

both mother and son are in total opposition with satan. they both shared this total opposition to satan.
therefore, if the mother or the son has even just one minor sin, we cannot say that they are in total opposition to the devil.
Bad translation but it suits RCC false teachings because it changes the focus from Jesus to Mary. Why do RCs and their poor translation need to change the pronoun used. The pronoun is He. No where does it say Mary is sinless. In some way the devil is crushed whenever a person is saved because Jesus crushed Him on the cross. But it is not them who is doing the crushing, it is Jesus and everyone He saves is just adding pressure to Him crushing the enemy. All real believers have enmity with the devil.

Gen 3

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel
 
Baptism is a work?

Also, the CC teaches baptism by desire. The Thief had faith and desire to be with Christ.

People who die without baptism but desire to can be saved.

NCs say one has to have faith. right? What of people who do not understand, like mentally ill people? What of severely mentally retarded people? What if someone never truly understands what faith is, or who Jesus is because of an inability to do so? It is the same situation. God is outside of time. He is outside of the 'regular' means that most of us live by. God alone is judge of our hearts.
How is baptism a work?
 
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