organgrinder
Super Member
Sin nature is what it is. I let God sort that out. Beyond my pay grade to determine anything else.
The Immaculate Conception
- Thread starter Mysterium Fidei
- Start date
A new day
Well-known member
There is NO double standard. Please link us to where any one of us non-rc's posting in this forum ever said it was ok to sin. The rcc is NOT being singled out. Many Christian t.v evangelists have also been called out and received a lot of public back lashes for abuses that have or are currently ongoing.
We non-rc's don't disagree that these scandals have occurred in other denominations as well. We do NOT applaud such behavior. The abuses prove that no human is infallible. The thing that is the most bothersome, is the attempts by the rcc to prevent such activities from becoming public knowledge and the lack of empathy towards the victims of those who commit the crimes.
BornAgainRN
Active member
I understand that God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. That's not the issue. You're not understanding what I am saying. Please pay attention to the details of what I am saying:
If Mary is the DAUGHTER of God the Father, and she is SPOUSE to the Holy Spirit, and she is QUEEN MOTHER of Heaven because Jesus is her SON, then - theologically - that would NOT make God the "Father" of Jesus, but His "GRAND-Father"...IF Mary is "Queen MOTHER" of Jesus in Heaven. That is why Roman Catholic Mariology fails, but it doesn't consider the theological consequences of their Mariolatry.
BornAgainRN
Active member
Jesus is only our "brother" is the same sense that those who are His SPIRITUAL family who do the will of God are His "brother & sister & mother" (Mark 3:34-35) And by "mother," Jesus was NOT saying that Mary is "Mother of the Church" or "Queen Mother" of Heaven. He is using this phrase "brother & sister & mother" to CONTRAST His biological mother Mary & biological brothers with His DISCIPLES. But this does not transition to Mary being "Mother of Jesus" in Heaven. Rather, Mary is part of the "bride of Christ" like the rest of it. We are the bridegroom, because that is a different analogy to being united as one with Christ, just as a married couple are. Don't confuse the analogies.
Bonnie
Super Member
Of COURSE YOU do not see Catholic teachings as going beyond what is written. That is a given. Catholics have blinded themselves to the truth, refusing to see the truth, because they will be forced to admit mother church has been teaching for doctrine the precepts of men, NOT God, for many centuries.
But unless you can clearly show us the Biblical basis for the following, then that is
EXACTLY what your church has been doing for centuries:
1. 4 Marian Dogmas
2. Mariolatry, and all it entails
3. Indulgences
5. Salvation by grace through faith PLUS our works
6. Celibate, unmarried clergy
7. Praying to Saints dead in the Lord, as one would to God
8. Submission to pope is necessary for salvation
9. Purgatory
Paul was also clear that leaders should have a good reputation and so many RCs leaders have very bad reputations.
1 Tim 3:
7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
Bonnie
Super Member
Agreed. And Paul said both overseers and elders should be husbands of only one wife, with well-run households, and respectful children.
Doesn't sound like the RCC clergy one bit!
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romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
You think posting teachings you think are unbiblical------somehow constitutes an argument, do you?
Newsflash: It doesn't.
Fine, You think the above teachings are unbiblical. That would be why you aren't Catholic, I assume?
I do NOT think the above teachings are unbiblical. Given this, I do not understand why I am supposed to have a problem with any of them.
Of course it does. You say one thing without providing evidence and Bonnie provided something else with evidence. If you think what you claims is biblical prove it, that should be so easy to do. The scriptures are available to all to use.
In total agreement.
pilgrim
Well-known member
We become children of God by adoption.
Gal 4: 4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children. 6 And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God.
Bonnie
Super Member
Same here. God will do what is best and merciful. We can count on that!
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Bonnie
Super Member
Then prove they are Biblical.
Then prove they are Biblical.
One good reason.
You think this last paragraph constitutes an argument FOR those doctrines being Biblical?
News Flash--IT DOES NOT!
BornAgainRN
Active member
Yes, but that quotation from Galatians isn't addressing the context of my previous post.
Bonnie
Super Member
Oh, you noticed!
I thought of that, too. Of course we are God's children by adoption, through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with that.romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Why do I have to? I am not asking you to believe the doctrines.
I am not asking you to be Catholic Bonnie.
What I think is that I am not asking you to convert to Catholicism and believe these doctrines. Thus, why do you care what I believe?
Because maybe she's concerned about where you'll spend eternity?
Do you not understand that following "men" who have lied, killed, committed sexual sin with children, raped nuns, and made up un-Biblical nonsense will not end well for you? I don't understand the average catholic who will blindly follow the ridiculous "rules" that the RCC makes up without being concerned that they're totally opposite to what Scriptures say. And it doesn't bother them at all. I have many family members, (my wife's family are mostly catholic) and none of them ever pick up a Bible, know any Scripture, and couldn't find Genesis in the Bible if you asked them where it was. And the scary part is, they don't care! They go by whatever "Father Know It All" tells them to believe, and that's it. Show up for mass, get your "Jesus cookie" and all is well for another week. Oh, and don't forget those $$$ for the family members that are in purgatory, ya know!! I always say being catholic is a lazy religion because you never have to read your Bible, study anything, or think for yourself. Just do what the "church" tells you and you're good to go. Oh, and never, never say anything about Mary not being THE primary person to them. They go to her for everything, Jesus is a side note. I had someone tell me, when talking about the abortion issue......"if anybody can do anything about abortion, it's Mary! Pray to her!"..... Nothing about God or Jesus. Just Mary! How sad.
Christians don't follow a "church", a "pope", or ANY man! Christians follow Scripture. I have left churches because what they were teaching was not found in Scripture. I even walked out of a catholic funeral for one of my wife's family because I couldn't listen to another blasphemous minute of that service! The Holy Spirit made me so uncomfortable listening to them pray to Mary to intercede for people long dead! I was just so uncomfortable I had to get up and walk out. I waited for my wife in the car.
You're going to spend eternity somewhere RPO, so......
Perhaps that is why we care what you believe.
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pilgrim
Well-known member
Your remarks would not be filled with such animosity if you truly "cared". That is a false charity.
Actually, what is lazier than saying "Jesus did it all. I don't have to do anything"?
Because Jesus DID do it all! It's a free gift. Nothing about Mary, or anyone else! Anything more is a "works" salvation.
pilgrim
Well-known member
There you go!