The King of Kings and Lord of Lords who dwells in unapproachable light

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Sethproton

Well-known member
In the thread "The saving results of the death of Christ" Both ReverendRV and Civic denied that this passage from 1 Tim 6:15+16 is about Jesus Christ.
As far as I understand it, the church thruout history has claimed that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of Lords. The two posters deny it in the thread mentioned.
It appears that they have become so intense about calvinism and about trying to refute anything I post that they have black and white denied scripture.
This is a good lesson to warn us about being in love with our doctrine and mindlessly battling people who disagree.
Just to clarify for yourselves Read 1 Tim 6:13-16. Jesus there is the King of Kings who dwells in unapproachable light.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
The term King of Kings and Lord of Lords also refers to God the Father; but the term 'No one has seen or can see' doesn't refer to Jesus Christ. The distinction is drawn between God the Father and God the Son. Anyone who has seen Jesus has seen the Father because they are One in Spirit, but not because they are the same Person. God the Son and God the Father are the King of Kings and Lord of Lords because they are One in Spirit, but not because they are the same Person. When the Bible says that no one has seen the Person who dwells in unapproachable Light, a distinction in the Godhead MUST be drawn; or Critics like Bertrand Russell are correct in saying the Bible is full of Contradictions...

This is a Trinity discussion, have fun with Civic who is an expert on the Trinity...
 
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Sethproton

Well-known member
The term King of Kings and Lord of Lords also refers to God the Father; but the term 'No one has seen or can see' doesn't refer to Jesus Christ. The distinction is drawn between God the Father and God the Son. Anyone who has seen Jesus has seen the Father because they are One in Spirit, but not because they are the same Person. God the Son and God the Father are the King of Kings and Lord of Lords because they are One in Spirit, but not because they are the same Person. When the Bible says that no one has seen the Person who dwells in unapproachable Light, a distinction in the Godhead MUST be drawn; or Critics like Bertrand Russell are correct in saying the Bible is full of Contradictions...

This is a Trinity discussion, have fun with Civic who is an expert on the Trinity...
It is presented in the C and A forum because it is another one of those issues where the blindness of Calvinists corrupts scripture and prevents a person from reading scripture for what it says.
 

civic

Well-known member
It is presented in the C and A forum because it is another one of those issues where the blindness of Calvinists corrupts scripture and prevents a person from reading scripture for what it says.
These 2 simple questions will debunk your false premise.

Did Jesus die ? yes or no

Can you define immortal ?
 

civic

Well-known member
In the thread "The saving results of the death of Christ" Both ReverendRV and Civic denied that this passage from 1 Tim 6:15+16 is about Jesus Christ.
As far as I understand it, the church thruout history has claimed that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of Lords. The two posters deny it in the thread mentioned.
It appears that they have become so intense about calvinism and about trying to refute anything I post that they have black and white denied scripture.
This is a good lesson to warn us about being in love with our doctrine and mindlessly battling people who disagree.
Just to clarify for yourselves Read 1 Tim 6:13-16. Jesus there is the King of Kings who dwells in unapproachable light.
So lets see who actually denies Jesus as we read Jesus, John and Paul's teaching below !

Do you know what NO ONE means ?

Has anyone seen Jesus ? yes or no

Has anyone seen the Father except the Son ? yes or no


John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

John 6:46

No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Col 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

1 Tim 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Tim 6:13-16
I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

1 John 4:12
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

conclusion: you do not know how to use hermeneutics as I have demonstrated above and scripture interprets scripture as proven above. Your method is always eisegesis, 24/7 all of the time when it comes to Jesus !

hope this helps !!!
 

civic

Well-known member
And Jesus is approachable now in heaven as He is our present High Priest, Mediator and Advocate who always lives to make INTERCESSION. And you even deny that truth. UNBEIEVEABLE as there are so many holes in your cistern from your own verse. A stronghold indeed !
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
In the thread "The saving results of the death of Christ" Both ReverendRV and Civic denied that this passage from 1 Tim 6:15+16 is about Jesus Christ.
As far as I understand it, the church thruout history has claimed that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of Lords. The two posters deny it in the thread mentioned.
It appears that they have become so intense about calvinism and about trying to refute anything I post that they have black and white denied scripture.
This is a good lesson to warn us about being in love with our doctrine and mindlessly battling people who disagree.
Just to clarify for yourselves Read 1 Tim 6:13-16. Jesus there is the King of Kings who dwells in unapproachable light.

It is simple. The latter part of verse 16 is an appeal back to God the Father.

1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God

It is the consistent narrative presented in the Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the visible manifestation of Deity. The bridge between the unapproachable and man.
 

civic

Well-known member
It is simple. The latter part of verse 16 is an appeal back to God the Father.

1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God

It is the consistent narrative presented in the Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the visible manifestation of Deity. The bridge between the unapproachable and man.
Amen brother !
 

civic

Well-known member
In the thread "The saving results of the death of Christ" Both ReverendRV and Civic denied that this passage from 1 Tim 6:15+16 is about Jesus Christ.
As far as I understand it, the church thruout history has claimed that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of Lords. The two posters deny it in the thread mentioned.
It appears that they have become so intense about calvinism and about trying to refute anything I post that they have black and white denied scripture.
This is a good lesson to warn us about being in love with our doctrine and mindlessly battling people who disagree.
Just to clarify for yourselves Read 1 Tim 6:13-16. Jesus there is the King of Kings who dwells in unapproachable light.
Another fallacious argument.

We never said Jesus is not the king of kings and lord of lords.

Do you know that the Father and Son share the same names. titles and attributes ?

1-God is our judge (Ps 50:6, Eccl 12:14) Jesus is our judge (2Tim 4:1, Rev 20:12)
2-God is the temple of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:22) Jesus Christ (the Lamb)is the temple of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:22)
3-God is the first and the last (Is 44:6, 48:12) Jesus is the first and the last (Rev 22:13)
4-God is the beginning and the end (Rev 21:6) Jesus is the beginning and the end (Rev 22:13)
5-Only God can forgive sins (Lk 5:21) Jesus forgives sins (Lk 5:20)
6-God is our hope (Ps 71:5) Jesus is our hope (1Tim 1:11)
7-God is eternal(Deut 33:27) Jesus is eternal (Is 9:6, Heb 1:10-11)
8-God will come with the holy ones (Zech 14:5) Jesus will come with the holy ones (1Thess 3:13)
9-Only God is our savior (Is 43:11) Jesus is our savior (Tit 2:13, 2Pet 1:1)
10-God is the creator of the universe (Is 44:24, Jer 27:5) Jesus is (Jn 1:3)
To God, every knee will bow and every tongue confess (Is 45:22-23) To Jesus (Phil 2:10-11)
11-God is the same and His years will have no end (Ps 102:27) Jesus is the same and His years will have no end (Heb 1:12)
12-God is immutable (Mal 3:6) Jesus is immutable (Heb 13:8)
13-God is over all (Ps 97:9) Jesus is over all (Jn 3:31)
14-The spirit of God dwells in us (Rom 8:9) The spirit of Jesus dwells in us (Gal 4:6)
15-God is a stone of offence and a stumbling block (Is 8:14) Jesus is a stone of offence and a stumbling block (1Pet 2:8)
16-God is our shepherd (Ps 23:1) Jesus is our shepherd (Jn 10:11, 1Pet 5:4, Heb 13:20)
17-God is our Lord of Lords (Deut 10:17, Ps 136:3) Jesus is Lord of Lords (Rev 17:14)
18-God is our only rock (Is 44:8, Ps 18:2, 94:22) Jesus is our rock (1Cor 10:4)
19-No one can snatch us out of Gods hand (Deut 32:39) No one can snatch us out of Jesus hand (Jn 10:28)
20-God is the horn of salvation (2Sam 22:3) Jesus is the horn of salvation (Lk 1:68-69)
21-God renders according to our works (Ps 62:12) Jesus renders according to our works (Mt 16:27, Rev 22:12)
22-God loves and corrects (Prov 3:12) Jesus loves and corrects (Rev 3:19)
23-Gods words will stand forever (Is 40:8) Jesus words will stand forever (Mt 24:35)
24-God is the eternal light (Is 60:19) Jesus is the eternal light (Jn 8:12, Rev 21:3)
25-God seeks to save the lost (Ez 34:16) Jesus seeks to save the lost (Lk 19:10)
26-Paul is a slave of God (Tit 1:1) Paul is a slave of Christ (Rom 1:1)
27-God raised Jesus from the dead (Gal 1:1) Jesus raised himself from the dead (Jn 2:19-21)
28-God is our guide (Ps 48:14) Jesus is our guide (Lk 1:79)
29-God is our deliverer (Ps 70:5, 2Sam 22:2) Jesus is our deliverer (Rom 11:26)
30-God is called God (Is 44:8) Jesus is called God (Jn 20:28)
31-God is the king of Israel (Is 44:6) Jesus is the king of Israel (Mt 27:42, Jn 1:19)
32- God is the Alpha and Omega(Rev 1:8) Jesus is the Alpha and Omega(Rev 22:!3)
33- God is the king of Kings (1 Tim 5:15-16) Jesus is the King of Kings ( Rev 17:14)

hope this helps !!!
 

civic

Well-known member
You really dug yourself into the deepest pit with this thread. You are way out of your league and this is embarrassing to watch. Its like watching a little league baseball blowout 28 to 0 in the first inning where they call the game. 🤣
 

civic

Well-known member
You see this has nothing whatsoever to do with calvinism but the truth concerning Jesus and His true identity and how to make scripture harmonize. But you like to pit scripture against scripture and cannot see the truth. The Trinity is something you do not know or understand. Calvinism in not in my wheelhouse but the Trinity and Deity of Christ is and you just opened up a can of worms. So the more you oppose the more I will expose. I'm giving you a fair warning now so its up to you what you are going to do with it.

hope this helps !!!
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Another fallacious argument.

We never said Jesus is not the king of kings and lord of lords.

Do you know that the Father and Son share the same names. titles and attributes ?

1-God is our judge (Ps 50:6, Eccl 12:14) Jesus is our judge (2Tim 4:1, Rev 20:12)
2-God is the temple of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:22) Jesus Christ (the Lamb)is the temple of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:22)
3-God is the first and the last (Is 44:6, 48:12) Jesus is the first and the last (Rev 22:13)
4-God is the beginning and the end (Rev 21:6) Jesus is the beginning and the end (Rev 22:13)
5-Only God can forgive sins (Lk 5:21) Jesus forgives sins (Lk 5:20)
6-God is our hope (Ps 71:5) Jesus is our hope (1Tim 1:11)
7-God is eternal(Deut 33:27) Jesus is eternal (Is 9:6, Heb 1:10-11)
8-God will come with the holy ones (Zech 14:5) Jesus will come with the holy ones (1Thess 3:13)
9-Only God is our savior (Is 43:11) Jesus is our savior (Tit 2:13, 2Pet 1:1)
10-God is the creator of the universe (Is 44:24, Jer 27:5) Jesus is (Jn 1:3)
To God, every knee will bow and every tongue confess (Is 45:22-23) To Jesus (Phil 2:10-11)
11-God is the same and His years will have no end (Ps 102:27) Jesus is the same and His years will have no end (Heb 1:12)
12-God is immutable (Mal 3:6) Jesus is immutable (Heb 13:8)
13-God is over all (Ps 97:9) Jesus is over all (Jn 3:31)
14-The spirit of God dwells in us (Rom 8:9) The spirit of Jesus dwells in us (Gal 4:6)
15-God is a stone of offence and a stumbling block (Is 8:14) Jesus is a stone of offence and a stumbling block (1Pet 2:8)
16-God is our shepherd (Ps 23:1) Jesus is our shepherd (Jn 10:11, 1Pet 5:4, Heb 13:20)
17-God is our Lord of Lords (Deut 10:17, Ps 136:3) Jesus is Lord of Lords (Rev 17:14)
18-God is our only rock (Is 44:8, Ps 18:2, 94:22) Jesus is our rock (1Cor 10:4)
19-No one can snatch us out of Gods hand (Deut 32:39) No one can snatch us out of Jesus hand (Jn 10:28)
20-God is the horn of salvation (2Sam 22:3) Jesus is the horn of salvation (Lk 1:68-69)
21-God renders according to our works (Ps 62:12) Jesus renders according to our works (Mt 16:27, Rev 22:12)
22-God loves and corrects (Prov 3:12) Jesus loves and corrects (Rev 3:19)
23-Gods words will stand forever (Is 40:8) Jesus words will stand forever (Mt 24:35)
24-God is the eternal light (Is 60:19) Jesus is the eternal light (Jn 8:12, Rev 21:3)
25-God seeks to save the lost (Ez 34:16) Jesus seeks to save the lost (Lk 19:10)
26-Paul is a slave of God (Tit 1:1) Paul is a slave of Christ (Rom 1:1)
27-God raised Jesus from the dead (Gal 1:1) Jesus raised himself from the dead (Jn 2:19-21)
28-God is our guide (Ps 48:14) Jesus is our guide (Lk 1:79)
29-God is our deliverer (Ps 70:5, 2Sam 22:2) Jesus is our deliverer (Rom 11:26)
30-God is called God (Is 44:8) Jesus is called God (Jn 20:28)
31-God is the king of Israel (Is 44:6) Jesus is the king of Israel (Mt 27:42, Jn 1:19)
32- God is the Alpha and Omega(Rev 1:8) Jesus is the Alpha and Omega(Rev 22:!3)
33- God is the king of Kings (1 Tim 5:15-16) Jesus is the King of Kings ( Rev 17:14)

hope this helps !!!
Thank you for all of those scriptures. I’m very interested in leaning more about the trinity and this really is very helpful .
 

civic

Well-known member
Thank you for all of those scriptures. I’m very interested in leaning more about the trinity and this really is very helpful .
You are welcome its my passion and I use to spend 90% of my time on the Trinity forum but now its reversed where 80-90 % on this one. There is not anyone over there these days who can challenge the Trinity like there was in then old days when we had a few astute unitarians, so I do not frequent it much these days but I still post over there once in a while.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
You are welcome its my passion and I use to spend 90% of my time on the Trinity forum but now its reversed where 80-90 % on this one. There is not anyone over there these days who can challenge the Trinity like there was in then old days when we had a few astute unitarians, so I do not frequent it much these days but I still post over there once in a while.
Thank you that is good for me to know . I’m studying a couple books on the trinity and will wait before posting much over there . I want to be armed better with my knowledge about the trinity. I need to learn to defend it better than I can now.
 

civic

Well-known member
Thank you that is good for me to know . I’m studying a couple books on the trinity and will wait before posting much over there . I want to be armed better with my knowledge about the trinity. I need to learn to defend it better than I can now.
That is very wise of you but you do ask some good questions . Keep that up ! Its how we learn and grow in our faith.

The OP literally opened up Pandora's box and thought he was clever not knowing what whirlwind was heading his way.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
In the thread "The saving results of the death of Christ" Both ReverendRV and Civic denied that this passage from 1 Tim 6:15+16 is about Jesus Christ.
As far as I understand it, the church thruout history has claimed that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of Lords. The two posters deny it in the thread mentioned.
It appears that they have become so intense about calvinism and about trying to refute anything I post that they have black and white denied scripture.
This is a good lesson to warn us about being in love with our doctrine and mindlessly battling people who disagree.
Just to clarify for yourselves Read 1 Tim 6:13-16. Jesus there is the King of Kings who dwells in unapproachable light.

No, it is referring to the Father whom Jesus will show when he returns in the glory of the Father.

I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in his own time will show He who is the Blessed and only Power, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal might. Amen.
 

civic

Well-known member
It is referring to the Father whom Jesus will show when he returns in the glory of the Father.

I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in his own time will show He who is the Blessed and only Power, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal might. Amen.
I hardly ever agree with you but you are 100% correct in this case.
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
No, it is referring to the Father whom Jesus will show when he returns in the glory of the Father.

I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in his own time will show He who is the Blessed and only Power, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal might. Amen.

This is detail that anyone can accept. More responses of this sort would do us all good.
 

civic

Well-known member
The term King of Kings and Lord of Lords also refers to God the Father; but the term 'No one has seen or can see' doesn't refer to Jesus Christ. The distinction is drawn between God the Father and God the Son. Anyone who has seen Jesus has seen the Father because they are One in Spirit, but not because they are the same Person. God the Son and God the Father are the King of Kings and Lord of Lords because they are One in Spirit, but not because they are the same Person. When the Bible says that no one has seen the Person who dwells in unapproachable Light, a distinction in the Godhead MUST be drawn; or Critics like Bertrand Russell are correct in saying the Bible is full of Contradictions...

This is a Trinity discussion, have fun with Civic who is an expert on the Trinity...
Amen to the truth snd how to apply proper hermeneutics. As we see it’s eisegesis he practices with assumptions he reads into the text to deny Jesus is a man. It effects every passage he reads to deny Christ and His humanity . It’s the spirit of antichrist work as per 1 John 4:2 and 2 John 1:7. It’s a real stronghold .
 

civic

Well-known member
It is presented in the C and A forum because it is another one of those issues where the blindness of Calvinists corrupts scripture and prevents a person from reading scripture for what it says.
The Trinity has nothing to do with Calvinism . It has everything to go with the Trinity which obviously you are not equipped to discuss. This has everything to do with biblical and historical Christianity . I’m on the side of both whereas you are in opposition to both .

hope this helps !!!
 
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