The Kingdom of God & the Error of Calvinism

JDS

Active member
In the thread "Born Again" Civic and others advanced the proposition that the subjects of the kingdom of God had already come and the OT saints were in it. This of course is not true and it highlights the harm that can be done by spiritualizing the OT like most religious systems do.

I suppose this is the sentiment of all Calvinists, with the possible exception of some few dispensational Calvinists. The kingdom needs to be discussed and it is my position that Calvinists are wrong about everything they teach because they teach a system of theology that forces the words of scriptures to conform to the system. IOW, they do not believe what they read and they do not read carefully. Context means nothing at all and the promises of God concerning the kingdom is first spiritualized, and then ignored, because this doctrine does not fit the narrative. The entire OT doctrine of the kingdom is a spiritualized mess in their theological system

I would like to address this subject, by first of all just giving some statements and a limited amount of commentary, and adding more information as I go along.

First of all, John the Baptist came to Israel and fulfilled a prophecy of one who would introduce the King to Israel. He did that and his message was not that the savior was at hand, but that the kingdom of God was at hand because the promised Messiah of all those OT prophecies was among them. This nation had OT promises to them concerning a person who would be the Messiah and would sit on the throne of his father David and rule over them, and by extension, the world, in righteousness. This person would make them righteous by taking away their sins. That is what their OT scriptures promised. When Jesus came his message to Israel for the entire 3 1/2 years was "repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." If it was "at hand" it means that it was not established yet. There were some things that had to be accomplished before the kingdom is established and so his ministry was preparatory to that end. When Jesus was rejected by the rulers of this nation he was crucified, not for claiming he was the savior of Israel and the world, but for claiming he is the promised King.
"This is Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews" the inscription on the cross stated.

During the time of his ministry on earth he sent out his disciples to Israel only and instructed them to preach "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" and to confirm the promises with kingdom signs. They need to repent and prepare their hearts because God would be sending the promised Spirit to indwell them soon. This would require a bended knee to Jesus Christ because, unlike the world's political leaders, the kingdom of God is not by force but by acceptance. No one will enter into the kingdom of Christ who does not choose him as King. Never!

There are some things one must believe about Jesus Christ before one can believe in him as savior. There are some preparatory doctrines to understand about him. If one does not understand and accept these things then he will not save them. This was true about Israel when Jesus came. They must believe what their scriptures said about the Messiah and they must compare those things to what Jesus said and did. If those things matched, and they did perfectly, they must accept him as their Messiah, and Savior, and King and as the Son of God.

Jesus did not teach his disciples about his death and resurrection until the last few weeks of his time on earth. He did not send his preachers out to preach about it. When he finally began to speak about it his disciples did not even understand it and in Matt 16, Peter received a strong rebuke from Jesus for resisting the idea that Jesus would die and be buried and rise from the dead. These preachers were dejected and saddened by his crucifixion and thought it was over and none of them even believed the report that Jesus had risen from the dead when it was given to them. Rising from the dead is just not something that people do every day. Especially when they have been so mutilated by the beatings from the Romans that Jesus received first. There is no internal evidence that the message they had heard from him and had preached to others is that Jesus would die for them, be buried in a tomb, and rise from the dead on the third day. They did not go to the tomb on Sunday morning to watch him rise from the dead. The women went out to anoint his dead body.

In my next post I will supply a series of scripture quotes that will prove what I am saying here if Calvinists and others will believe the words they read and be able to process information from the scriptures of God that do not agree with the information they have received from their teachers that have led them astray. I have a busy day today and it might be few hours but they are important.

Matt 10 1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
 
Last edited:

JDS

Active member
Matt 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Israel needed to get their hearts right because something big was coming from God that required it.

Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

"that time" was right after Jesus was tempted of the devil to participate in his kingdom and had overcome him with the word of God.

Matt 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This woman was a gentile. Jesus said in other verses that whoever came to him he would not turn them away. She was not one to whom he was sent.

Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Lk 10: After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. 2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

The law of the harvest. The harvest comes at the end of a growing season.

8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

That is what Jesus preached during his ministry on earth to Israel to whom he was sent. That is the gospel, good news, glad tidings, that his preachers was sent to preach.
__________________________________________________________

A transition at the end of his ministry after Israel had rejected the kingdom through her rulers and the harvest was about to perish.
__________________________________________________________

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

The reaction to this transition by his disciples through the spokesman Peter:

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

________________________________________

Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
____________________

Mark 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
_____________________________

Lk 18:8 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken
.
__________________________________

John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
_______________________________________

Lk 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
________________________________


These men and women knew nothing about death, burial, and resurrection and di not believe it even after it took place. They were ppreaching and believing Jesus was the Messiah, the King and they preached that it was he who would establish it. That is what they preached to Israel in the gospel record during the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
These men and women knew nothing about death, burial, and resurrection and di not believe it even after it took place. They were ppreaching and believing Jesus was the Messiah, the King and they preached that it was he who would establish it. That is what they preached to Israel in the gospel record during the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ.

Its only one Gospel !
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Would you please stop wearing everybody out with your inability to reason, even a little. You can read the same words I read. There is some logic that is expected from the reader. Your pracice of just jumping in and making a ridiculous statement after someone presents an argument that can only produce one conclusion, and that is the point that is presented is wearisome . Your MO is not convincing anyone that you are the sharpest knife in the drawer.

The top posters with "inability to reason" include:

Edit per mod

... as well as a number of posters I have on ignore.

If the solution to those with "inability to reason" requires "please stop wearing everybody out", then you should take the lead and follow your own advice.

Just sayin'.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TomFL

Well-known member
The top posters with "inability to reason" include:

Edit per mod

... as well as a number of posters I have on ignore.

If the solution to those with "inability to reason" requires "please stop wearing everybody out", then you should take the lead and follow your own advice.

Just sayin'.

You left off the top one

Yourself

Edit per mod
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Theo1689

Well-known member
Your failures in defending your views however points to the truth

Okay... So then YOUR failures in defending YOUR views (in any convincing way) points to the truth as well.

I can do this all day, Tom...

The sad thing is that you apparently couldn't recognize a fallacious argument if Edit per mod
Which is kind of the point....
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Okay... So then YOUR failures in defending YOUR views (in any convincing way) points to the truth as well.

I can do this all day, Tom...

The sad thing is that you apparently couldn't recognize a fallacious argument if you tripped over it.
Which is kind of the point....
Except we have post after post of you refusing to defend your views when rebutted
 

JDS

Active member
Quote box deleted
I reasoned that our Lord Jesus Christ spent 3 1/2 years preaching what he calls the gospel of the kingdom and at the end of that time he began to speak to his disciples about his death and resurrection soon to come at Jerusalem and I quoted all four of the gospel writers testifying that they did not know anything about it. A dunce in the mental ward would be able to reason out that the gospel of the kingdom that he had been preaching and that his disciples, who were the ones who were baffled by his revelation concerning his impending death, was not preaching the same good news that they preached after it happened. They preached then that Jesus had died and was buried and rose from the dead after 3 days and they had all seen him and whoever would put their trust in him would receive forgiveness of sins and be brought into a right relationship with God. Edit per mod
 
Last edited by a moderator:

JDS

Active member
The reason that this thread has not generated any more interest is because the scriptural argument I have presented here is not covered in the Calvinist playbook. To accept the truth of this information would require some thoughtful reflection on why one's theology does not take these things concerning the gospel of the kingdom into account. I am sure this is a brand new concept to the minds of most Calvinists here.

One must take into account that the ministry of Jesus Christ was to fulfill his prophecies in the OT concerning his person and his work as King of the Jews and of the world. It was not to build his church. The church with the inclusion of gentiles in it as a result of Israel's failure to repent as a nation, the people of God when Jesus came.

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

These are not idle words just to have something to say to impress someone. They are the words of God. One may read the OT promises in covenants and find that those promises were all to Israel. If someone else was included it is because they were included through Israel and not apart from them. The one thing one will not find in the OT is a word prophecy about the church because it is not there. The church is a different aspect of the kingdom and it is not presented as an earthly kingdom with Jesus Christ sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem, being the sovereign over all the nations and peoples of the world and ruling through the chief nation, Israel, as all the OT promises declare. The church is God dealing with only the remnant of Israel who believed in him and received him and were washed from their sins in his blood. When few of them would repent and believe in him, he sent his men to the gentiles with the message that God is favoring them in his salvation work in this age and will receive us on the same basis as he has received the remnant of Jews, faith.

Do not think this in any ways annuls the promises of God to Israel. See Matt 5:18 above and believe the words. It only delays his work and gives him the opportunity to display a wonderful aspect of his character that could never be manifested in any more spectacular way, his grace to the world. Do not miss that. The kingdom now is called "the mystery of the kingdom of God." It has lasted some 2000 years already. The King is absent and ruling only from the heart of his subjects. He actually indwells his subjects and while we who are born again, the only entrance into this kingdom, the new birth, we are under the power of the physical kingdoms where we live and obey them as long as their laws do not conflict with his rules. This is what Jesus did while he was on the earth.

The gospel of Matthew has for it's theme the kingdom. For 12 chapters Jesus is preaching to these rulers and the showdown comes between he and them in this last chapter. This is where they refused him as Messiah and this generation committed the unpardonable sin. The kingdom preaching ended here and in chapter 13, Jesus began to preach to the people of Israel and to individuals calling them to repentance and faith. He outlines this whole age from beginning to end is a series of parables he calls the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. The NT writers, especially Paul, would take up the pen and expound on the mysteries and this age when they are unfolding just as he predicted they would. even further. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 4 that he and the apostles had been made stewards of the mysteries. We are given new truths for a new direction of the kingdom that are nowhere prophesied by the prophets of the OT. This is why they are mysteries. We learn from the "mystery of Christ" that Jesus Christ is forming his church on the testimony of his death, burial, and resurrection, which has a gentile character (Israel as a nation being dispersed throughout all nations in AD 70 and Jews being considered by God as gentiles when without a national identity) and the bride of Jesus Christ. This has an OT precedence which is Eve taken from the sleeping body of Adam then given him as a wife and a helpmeet. The church is also called the body of Jesus Christ. It has a beginning and it has an end and it has nothing to do with whether God will keep his immutable promises to the nation to whom he made them in the OT, Israel.

The practice of being taught to not believe the words of God will cause men to not believe them and will send men to hell in spite of all that God has done and said. Calvinism is one of these end time teachers and I encourage all people on this form to forsake it and believe the words God has given us in the context he has given them.
 

civic

Well-known member
The reason no one is interested is because its a strawman and to be honest no one cares what you think with your sermonettes jds.
Every Christian believes in the Kingdom of God/Christ- the Kingdom of heaven. They are one in the same Kingdom. they have one in the same King. . They have one in the same purpose, they have one in the same message that can only be understood by and through the Holy Spirit. The reason the disciples didn't understand was because they were in the flesh trying to understand Jesus teaching by their human wisdom and reasoning. Christ is the Kingdom of God in the flesh. To see Him is to see the Kingdom.

BTW- Jesus promised them they He would bring to REMEMBRENCE everything He had taught them once Pentecost came.

hope this helps !!!
 

JDS

Active member
The reason no one is interested is because its a strawman and to be honest no one cares what you think with your sermonettes jds.
Every Christian believes in the Kingdom of God/Christ- the Kingdom of heaven. They are one in the same Kingdom. they have one in the same King. . They have one in the same purpose, they have one in the same message that can only be understood by and through the Holy Spirit. The reason the disciples didn't understand was because they were in the flesh trying to understand Jesus teaching by their human wisdom and reasoning. Christ is the Kingdom of God in the flesh. To see Him is to see the Kingdom.

BTW- Jesus promised them they He would bring to REMEMBRENCE everything He had taught them once Pentecost came.

hope this helps !!!
Listen to yourself deny the words I presented to you and casually dismiss them without even considering that these disciples were commissioned as apostles (sent ones) to go and preach what Jesus was preaching for more than 3 years. Now, you are telling me that they could be in the very presence of God and not know what he was saying. Are you serious? No, you are serious and you will not believe because you would have to reconsider your religion.

The fact is that Jesus Christ came to fulfill his ministry as the Messiah of Israel and their King according to OT prophecies. These men preached this message and did not consider that his kingdom was predicated upon his being their savior through death and resurrection. He is the Son of God and God is his Father. All Israel must believe that first about him and these men preached that to none but Israel until the very end.

That is a fact whether you will believe what you read or not and the reason you are easily led into serious false doctrine is because you will not believe the words.
 

civic

Well-known member
says the spin doctor but hey like burger kings says you can build your burger anyway you want so have it your way jds and I will have it my way.
 

JDS

Active member
says the spin doctor but hey like burger kings says you can build your burger anyway you want so have it your way jds and I will have it my way.
You cannot prove I have spun anything, and as a tribute to your wisdom, you haven't tried. How can making a logical and reasonable conclusion from the stated information be a spin? Can you explain that?
 
Top