The KJV is a "Model T" version...

robycop3

Active member
The Model T was produced from 1909 through 1927. Henry Ford had it made from the best materials available, with the latest engineering designs. His assembly lines became so efficiant that a car could be made from parts every 93 minutes.

During its production run, the Model T was made into dozens of variations. American LaFrance Co. modified some 900 of them into firetrucks. Some of the other variants made were touring cars, racing cars, various kinds of trucks, "sportabouts", & luxury cars. Over time, innovations such as electric starters, electric windshield wipers, better headlights & brake lights, etc. were added.

The Model T was the original SUV, being able to negotiate many wagon paths & rough, unpaved roads, & to cross many creek beds. However, this car still rode roughly over smooth surfaces. But this car remained easy for most owners to keep in repair.

However, tech for cars was increasing, & other cars were offering more features than the Model T, & also, modern paved roads were being laid, enabling cars to go faster more-smoothly. So, Ford replaqced the Model T with the Model A, suited for modern roads. But to this day, the Model T remains the 8th best-selling car model of all time, with over 16 million units made.

The KJV is a "Model T" Bible version. It was the best English version of its day, offering such features as easily-read marginal notes, the Apocrypha, an "Easter-Finder", & an outstanding preface. In time, it replaces virtually every other English version in common use. And the British govt. which held sway over most of the English-using world, outlawed the printing or sale of any other English version.

But the English language changed over time, especially in countries outside of Britain, & the language style of the KJV fell increasingly out of use. Also, many more Scriptural mss.had been discovered, bringing the wording of some verses into question, as well as better translation tools being used, which showed some goofs & booboos in the KJV. Thus, modern English Bible versions began to be made, which are in modern language, & correct many of the KJV's errors.

Now, the KJV remains a viable Bible version, same as the Model T remains a car. However, same as the Model T, the KJV is behind times when compared to modern versions.

God has caused His word to be translated into OUR language, & there's no valid reason not to read it & preach it in our own language. We don't drive Model Ts every day, so there's no reason to use only a "Model T" Bible version!
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
The Model T was produced from 1909 through 1927. Henry Ford had it made from the best materials available, with the latest engineering designs. His assembly lines became so efficiant that a car could be made from parts every 93 minutes.

During its production run, the Model T was made into dozens of variations. American LaFrance Co. modified some 900 of them into firetrucks. Some of the other variants made were touring cars, racing cars, various kinds of trucks, "sportabouts", & luxury cars. Over time, innovations such as electric starters, electric windshield wipers, better headlights & brake lights, etc. were added.

The Model T was the original SUV, being able to negotiate many wagon paths & rough, unpaved roads, & to cross many creek beds. However, this car still rode roughly over smooth surfaces. But this car remained easy for most owners to keep in repair.

However, tech for cars was increasing, & other cars were offering more features than the Model T, & also, modern paved roads were being laid, enabling cars to go faster more-smoothly. So, Ford replaqced the Model T with the Model A, suited for modern roads. But to this day, the Model T remains the 8th best-selling car model of all time, with over 16 million units made.

The KJV is a "Model T" Bible version. It was the best English version of its day, offering such features as easily-read marginal notes, the Apocrypha, an "Easter-Finder", & an outstanding preface. In time, it replaces virtually every other English version in common use. And the British govt. which held sway over most of the English-using world, outlawed the printing or sale of any other English version.

But the English language changed over time, especially in countries outside of Britain, & the language style of the KJV fell increasingly out of use. Also, many more Scriptural mss.had been discovered, bringing the wording of some verses into question, as well as better translation tools being used, which showed some goofs & booboos in the KJV. Thus, modern English Bible versions began to be made, which are in modern language, & correct many of the KJV's errors.

Now, the KJV remains a viable Bible version, same as the Model T remains a car. However, same as the Model T, the KJV is behind times when compared to modern versions.

God has caused His word to be translated into OUR language, & there's no valid reason not to read it & preach it in our own language. We don't drive Model Ts every day, so there's no reason to use only a "Model T" Bible version!
Well - I drive a Model "A" every day to work (since they're good for 45-50 m.p.h.), and the "T" wasn't safe much over 35 (with "NO wheel" brakes). And since I've been using the KJV for 70 years, and know most of the "Work arounds" for KJV lousy areas of translation, I won't be changing any time soon. I found out a while back that there's a DRVO group in the Catholic Church that worships the Douay-Rheims translation. Go Figure.
 

praise_yeshua

Active member
Well - I drive a Model "A" every day to work (since they're good for 45-50 m.p.h.), and the "T" wasn't safe much over 35 (with "NO wheel" brakes). And since I've been using the KJV for 70 years, and know most of the "Work arounds" for KJV lousy areas of translation, I won't be changing any time soon. I found out a while back that there's a DRVO group in the Catholic Church that worships the Douay-Rheims translation. Go Figure.

Just a "while back"? That shows how little you know about the subject. Hebrew Onlyists have been around for a very long time. Latin Onlyists as well.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Just a "while back"? That shows how little you know about the subject. Hebrew Onlyists have been around for a very long time. Latin Onlyists as well.
"The Subject" was the superiority of the NIV over and above the KJV. I just interjected that "Protestant lunatic fringe groups" aren't the ONLY ones with a contemporary "Onlyness" Hang up.
 

travelah

Active member
The Model T was produced from 1909 through 1927. Henry Ford had it made from the best materials available, with the latest engineering designs. His assembly lines became so efficiant that a car could be made from parts every 93 minutes.

During its production run, the Model T was made into dozens of variations. American LaFrance Co. modified some 900 of them into firetrucks. Some of the other variants made were touring cars, racing cars, various kinds of trucks, "sportabouts", & luxury cars. Over time, innovations such as electric starters, electric windshield wipers, better headlights & brake lights, etc. were added.

The Model T was the original SUV, being able to negotiate many wagon paths & rough, unpaved roads, & to cross many creek beds. However, this car still rode roughly over smooth surfaces. But this car remained easy for most owners to keep in repair.

However, tech for cars was increasing, & other cars were offering more features than the Model T, & also, modern paved roads were being laid, enabling cars to go faster more-smoothly. So, Ford replaqced the Model T with the Model A, suited for modern roads. But to this day, the Model T remains the 8th best-selling car model of all time, with over 16 million units made.

The KJV is a "Model T" Bible version. It was the best English version of its day, offering such features as easily-read marginal notes, the Apocrypha, an "Easter-Finder", & an outstanding preface. In time, it replaces virtually every other English version in common use. And the British govt. which held sway over most of the English-using world, outlawed the printing or sale of any other English version.

But the English language changed over time, especially in countries outside of Britain, & the language style of the KJV fell increasingly out of use. Also, many more Scriptural mss.had been discovered, bringing the wording of some verses into question, as well as better translation tools being used, which showed some goofs & booboos in the KJV. Thus, modern English Bible versions began to be made, which are in modern language, & correct many of the KJV's errors.

Now, the KJV remains a viable Bible version, same as the Model T remains a car. However, same as the Model T, the KJV is behind times when compared to modern versions.

God has caused His word to be translated into OUR language, & there's no valid reason not to read it & preach it in our own language. We don't drive Model Ts every day, so there's no reason to use only a "Model T" Bible version!
This is foolish. The KJV defined the English language for generations, well into our own until the current nearly illiterate generation that can hardly sit still long enough to read a book. The KJV prose is awesome and unmatched by any modern version. That doesn't make me KJV Only; it means I can understand it's beauty and purpose.
 

JDS

Active member
Do you guys all go to the same church and do you all agree on major doctrinal issues that will determine if you go to heaven or hell when you die. If your answer is no, my next question is "does it matter?" Next, what advantage is it that you all have brand new bible translations and it has caused you to agree on nothing, not even which new bible translation is best. With every new bible version it just gives you another reason to divide and argue.

How many people do you know that have changed their minds on a major doctrinal issue because they graduated from a KJV to a new and easier to read bible version? How many have reported to you that, wow, I didn't get it til I read this NIV?

It is silly to spend your life and energy here unless someone is trying to compel you to be KJV only and I doubt that is happening to you. I post over on the Calvinist forum and most of those guys over there have a philosophy and many rarely quote any bible with regard to context. So, what does it matter what bible they ignore context in? I doubt a lot of them and probably people posting on this forum have never even read the whole bible. It wouldn't surprise me none if that were true.
 

Beloved

Member
2 Peter 1:19–21 (NASB)

19. So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.

20. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

21. for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God


QUOTE
As per John MacArthur:The four most popular formal equivalency translations in English are the King James Version (KJV), the New King James Version (NKJV), the New American Standard Bible (NASB), and the English Standard Version (ESV)

The NASB, completed in 1971 and updated in 1995, is a revision of the American Standard Version of 1901. It is a literal translation from the Hebrew and Greek languages. The New Testament of the KJV is 83% Tyndale’s translation from the early 1500s.

Ideally, as a serious student of Scripture, you should become familiar enough with concordances, word-study aids, and conservative commentaries even without a thorough knowledge of the original languages, END OF QUOTE

I go to MacArthurs web site and read some of his sermons. I have seen where he writes he uses the King James version at times and he likes that it is poetically beautiful. I believe the one that he uses most is the NASB. Also at times the NKJV. I saw where he says it is also true to the 1611 version of the KJV. But I notice the KJV ONLY group refuses to acknowlege that.

IMO they should spend some time researching the background as the group that translated KJV wrote an Epistle Dedicatory titled:
To The Most High And Mighty Prince James By The Grace Of God, King of Great Britian, France, And Ireland DEFENDER OF THE FAITH. In fact that is in my KJV.

They wrote that they might be maligned but that the King had not interferred in any way in their endeavor and if there were errors they followed Scripture and went to great lengths that would not happen.

If we study with the guidance of the Holy Spirit we should be in good company.

I came in here a little late but I agree with Bob, travelah and JDS.
Sorry robycop3 I usually agree with you too but I think we can learn from The Geneva Bible and many of the older ones. It mostly is changing words to language we use now.
 

robycop3

Active member
This is foolish. The KJV defined the English language for generations, well into our own until the current nearly illiterate generation that can hardly sit still long enough to read a book. The KJV prose is awesome and unmatched by any modern version. That doesn't make me KJV Only; it means I can understand it's beauty and purpose.
The Model T can still cross a creek bed or climb thru a field of rocks as well as a Land Rover. But it's still unsuited for modern roads. The KJV's English has thus been overtaken by current English. It has quite a few goofs & booboos. Beautiful prose or not, it's still obsolete & no one talks that way any more, except Shakespearian actors/actresses while rehearsing/performing.
 

robycop3

Active member
Do you guys all go to the same church and do you all agree on major doctrinal issues that will determine if you go to heaven or hell when you die. If your answer is no, my next question is "does it matter?" Next, what advantage is it that you all have brand new bible translations and it has caused you to agree on nothing, not even which new bible translation is best. With every new bible version it just gives you another reason to divide and argue.

How many people do you know that have changed their minds on a major doctrinal issue because they graduated from a KJV to a new and easier to read bible version? How many have reported to you that, wow, I didn't get it til I read this NIV?

It is silly to spend your life and energy here unless someone is trying to compel you to be KJV only and I doubt that is happening to you. I post over on the Calvinist forum and most of those guys over there have a philosophy and many rarely quote any bible with regard to context. So, what does it matter what bible they ignore context in? I doubt a lot of them and probably people posting on this forum have never even read the whole bible. It wouldn't surprise me none if that were true.
I use Bible versions in MY language that I know anyone I witness to can understand.

The other day, I had a KJVO ask me what an "ossifrage" is (Lev. 11:13, Deut. 14:12) I knew, of course, that it's a bearded vulture, common in the wilderness thru which the Israelis traveled. But how many other people know it ? Modern versions simply read vulture or black vulture.

And I know several folks whose view of eschatology has changed after abandoning the KJV for a modern version.
 

JDS

Active member
I use Bible versions in MY language that I know anyone I witness to can understand.

The other day, I had a KJVO ask me what an "ossifrage" is (Lev. 11:13, Deut. 14:12) I knew, of course, that it's a bearded vulture, common in the wilderness thru which the Israelis traveled. But how many other people know it ? Modern versions simply read vulture or black vulture.
I did not ask that question but I did ask several other questions that you just ignored.

And I know several folks whose view of eschatology has changed after abandoning the KJV for a modern version.

Anybody could make that claim. Names and phone numbers please.
 

travelah

Active member
The Model T can still cross a creek bed or climb thru a field of rocks as well as a Land Rover. But it's still unsuited for modern roads. The KJV's English has thus been overtaken by current English. It has quite a few goofs & booboos. Beautiful prose or not, it's still obsolete & no one talks that way any more, except Shakespearian actors/actresses while rehearsing/performing.
Enjoy your Lexus, whatever version you think that is.
 

Buzzard

Active member
Deut. 14:21
Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself:
thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates,
that he may eat it;
or
thou mayest sell it unto an alien:
for thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God.

Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Those that claim to be
Teachers of the Law,
should know these things

explain please
 
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Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
I use Bible versions in MY language that I know anyone I witness to can understand.

The other day, I had a KJVO ask me what an "ossifrage" is (Lev. 11:13, Deut. 14:12) I knew, of course, that it's a bearded vulture, common in the wilderness thru which the Israelis traveled. But how many other people know it ? Modern versions simply read vulture or black vulture.

And I know several folks whose view of eschatology has changed after abandoning the KJV for a modern version.
I've never PERSONALLY considered "Eschatology" as anything other than "RANK SPECULATION", regardless of which translation is used to teach it.
 

JDS

Active member
I've never PERSONALLY considered "Eschatology" as anything other than "RANK SPECULATION", regardless of which translation is used to teach it.
The personal testimonies, like the one above, is sometimes so outrageous that it should leave little doubt that deception and obfuscation has got to be the end game for some on these boards. One of the main ways God has given to confirm the veracity of his revelation to us is prophecy. For 4 thousand years he said in the OT that Jesus Christ was coming and gave particular descriptions of his coming. The appeal to his person and work that Jesus Christ made was what was written about him in those 39 books, all prophetic. If one of those things had not come to pass he could have been disqualified by the writings of the Jews own books. The very fact that every single one of them came to pass and the Jews did not believe them is the reason that generation committed the unpardonable sin and went to hell when they died. God puts up with only so much foolishness and then the line is crossed and there is no more hope. Following is just one warning for the people today who thinks like this poster and are too smart to believe what they read. The idea that God had was for them to match Jesus Christ life and work with what was written about him
beforetime and if everything was exactly like God said many years before, then there would be no excuse for not believing.

2 Thess 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Jesus Christ at his first coming was the subject of eschatology because he often refers to the time of his first coming as "the last days."
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
The personal testimonies, like the one above, is sometimes so outrageous that it should leave little doubt that deception and obfuscation has got to be the end game for some on these boards. One of the main ways God has given to confirm the veracity of his revelation to us is prophecy. For 4 thousand years he said in the OT that Jesus Christ was coming and gave particular descriptions of his coming. The appeal to his person and work that Jesus Christ made was what was written about him in those 39 books, all prophetic. If one of those things had not come to pass he could have been disqualified by the writings of the Jews own books. The very fact that every single one of them came to pass and the Jews did not believe them is the reason that generation committed the unpardonable sin and went to hell when they died. God puts up with only so much foolishness and then the line is crossed and there is no more hope. Following is just one warning for the people today who thinks like this poster and are too smart to believe what they read. The idea that God had was for them to match Jesus Christ life and work with what was written about him
beforetime and if everything was exactly like God said many years before, then there would be no excuse for not believing.

2 Thess 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Jesus Christ at his first coming was the subject of eschatology because he often refers to the time of his first coming as "the last days."
And for all the above breast beating and threats above, YOU HAVE NO IDEA when the time of His Coming will be.

Clue - He'll come when it's time.
 

robycop3

Active member
Do you guys all go to the same church
OK, I'll answer the questions you said I ignored: The answer to this one is, No.
and do you all agree on major doctrinal issues that will determine if you go to heaven or hell when you die.
Far as I know, we do. We even agree with many KJVOs on this.
If your answer is no, my next question is "does it matter?"
it matters for each individual.
Next, what advantage is it that you all have brand new bible translations and it has caused you to agree on nothing, not even which new bible translation is best. With every new bible version it just gives you another reason to divide and argue.
Can't speak for all, but when ministering to others, I use the NKJV, NASV, or ESV. Now, lemme remind you of this: Many Hebrew, Aramaic, or Koine Greek words/phrases have multiple meanings in English, which is a much-more-complex language, with more words than any other. When context & a general overview of all Scripturedoesn't offer a clear clue as to which is the best of those multiple meanings for a particular use, the translator must make a choice. And, of course, different translators make different choices.
How many people do you know that have changed their minds on a major doctrinal issue because they graduated from a KJV to a new and easier to read bible version? How many have reported to you that, wow, I didn't get it til I read this NIV?
Answered elsewhere.
It is silly to spend your life and energy here unless someone is trying to compel you to be KJV only and I doubt that is happening to you. I post over on the Calvinist forum and most of those guys over there have a philosophy and many rarely quote any bible with regard to context. So, what does it matter what bible they ignore context in? I doubt a lot of them and probably people posting on this forum have never even read the whole bible. It wouldn't surprise me none if that were true.
My purpose in this sub-forum is to first, warn new Christians that the KJVO myth is false, & provide proof of that falsehood, & to educate some veteran KJVOs of those same things, of which they may not have been aware.
 

JDS

Active member
And for all the above breast beating and threats above, YOU HAVE NO IDEA when the time of His Coming will be.

Clue - He'll come when it's time.
The study of the scriptures is not rank speculation. What? Do you think God made prophecies to confuse us?
 

JDS

Active member
Now, lemme remind you of this: Many Hebrew, Aramaic, or Koine Greek words/phrases have multiple meanings in English, which is a much-more-complex language, with more words than any other. When context & a general overview of all Scripturedoesn't offer a clear clue as to which is the best of those multiple meanings for a particular use, the translator must make a choice. And, of course, different translators make different choices.

.........Proving God is not within 100 light years of any of these guys. We have the words of men and we put our eternal souls in their hands. You are a tool, but not of God.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
The study of the scriptures is not rank speculation. What? Do you think God made prophecies to confuse us?
I didn't say "Study of the Scriptures". I Said "ESCHATOLOGY". "Eschatology" isn't Scripture!! It's nothing but Man's "THEOLOGY". ALL God's Chilluns gots "Theologies". And "Prophets" come in two convenient versions: Genuine, and FALSE.

Humans come in only ONE version: IGNORANT.

As I recall, Biblically, ONLY ONE prophesy was actually understood before the time: the restoration of the walls and the temple in Jerusalem after the captivity.

The coming of the Messiah, in fact, wasn't understood OR received by the people it was given to, so they murdered Him. AND YOU THINK that your "Eschatology" is any more accurate than the next person's???

The "Prophets" are saying the TRUMP will win the election. on January 20, we'll find out if they REALLY ARE PROPHETS, or just run of the mill religious talking heads ( I know what my opinion is).
 
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