The law verses the glory that was done away; the ministration of death

Truther

Well-known member
Does not mean it was done away with.

Are you insisting the commandment not to murder has been done away with?

Let me state it this way.
The requirement for justification by keeping the Law has been done away with. Christ fulfilled the Law, and justification is now by grace through faith.

The Law is still perfect, and it has not been done away with, you are not saved through obedience to the law, but it does not take away from it's perfection.

Romans 2 through 3 explains it quite well.
If you cannot murder because you are led of the Spirit, the Law does not apply to you. If you are not walking in the Spirit and can murder, the Law applies to you.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
If you cannot murder because you are led of the Spirit, the Law does not apply to you. If you are not walking in the Spirit and can murder, the Law applies to you.
So why do you say it is done away with? The Law of the Spirit leads you not to kill. Nothing is done away with. God's Law will not fall away.

12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
(Rom 7)
 

Truther

Well-known member
So why do you say it is done away with? The Law of the Spirit leads you not to kill. Nothing is done away with. God's Law will not fall away.

12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
(Rom 7)
I have said it is done away with for the Saints. The Spirit of God keeps us from committing sin therefore we are not under the law. Only sinners are under the law.

The law of the Spirit as you describe is not the law of the old testament. That is a different description. It is being led by the Spirit alone, not by the letter of the law.

Only the saints are led by the law of the Spirit(Love).
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I have said it is done away with for the Saints. The Spirit of God keeps us from committing sin therefore we are not under the law. Only sinners are under the law.

The law of the Spirit as you describe is not the law of the old testament. That is a different description. It is being led by the Spirit alone, not by the letter of the law.

Only the saints are led by the law of the Spirit(Love).
Yes, we are in agreement.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
The 10 Commandments have been done away for the born-again Spirit led Christians, but not for sinners. This is what the apostles taught.
By definition, the sinner breaks the commandments, therefore they were done away with as soon as they were born due to the fact that all fallen human beings are born sinners. If the born again Christian is also a sinner, then there is no difference between them and the lawless sinner.

If those who are born again spirit led, are born to keep God's commandments as the bible teaches, then it is the sacrificial system that is done away, not the commandments. Those who do not sin, are in no need of a sacrifice any longer.
 

Truther

Well-known member
By definition, the sinner breaks the commandments, therefore they were done away with as soon as they were born due to the fact that all fallen human beings are born sinners. If the born again Christian is also a sinner, then there is no difference between them and the lawless sinner.

If those who are born again spirit led, are born to keep God's commandments as the bible teaches, then it is the sacrificial system that is done away, not the commandments. Those who do not sin, are in no need of a sacrifice any longer.
There is no verse that gets rid of only part of the Law for sinners. The Bible teaches it is all or nothing.

It is all for sinners, to condemn them into finding Grace, ....it is nothing for saints that have grace.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
There is no verse that gets rid of only part of the Law for sinners.
False. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11:19;36:25-27; Hebrews 8:9,10; 10:26 all show that the sacrificial laws are done away for those who have been selected for the New Covenant. The primary reason being that they no longer sin, hence the reason why "there remains no more sacrifice for sins"
 

Truther

Well-known member
False. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11:19;36:25-27; Hebrews 8:9,10; 10:26 all show that the sacrificial laws are done away for those who have been selected for the New Covenant. The primary reason being that they no longer sin, hence the reason why "there remains no more sacrifice for sins"
Only for the saints.

Can’t you see what I am saying?

The sinners are still under the old system... all of it.

No scripture says sinners are only condemned by failing some commandments, but all of them.
 

Truther

Well-known member
For example, why is the Jew condemned? Simple. He cannot keep every single old testament command. They are all or nothing commands. Jews and gentiles are both required to seek Grace instead of the law of condemnation. The law from Genesis to Malachi is the law of sin and death. It reveals what sin is and the result is death to the unrepentant sinners.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Only for the saints.
Agreed.
Can’t you see what I am saying?
Your posts are far too vague and ambiguous to be understood.
The sinners are still under the old system... all of it.
Agreed. The old system relies upon one's own decision, will and effort to follow God's will while the new system is guaranteed by God.
No scripture says sinners are only condemned by failing some commandments,
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, or why you're posting this.
but all of them.
All sinners, or all commandments? I can only assume you mean all sinners as one need only fail to observe one commandment to be damned. Of course this is only within the context of those who are attempting to justify themselves. Those who are a new creation, no longer need to justify themselves because they are all justified in, with, and through Christ who keeps the commandments perfectly. This can only be if they are in Christ, and there is no sin in Christ. Those who continue to sin are still under the old system.
 

Truther

Well-known member
Agreed.

Your posts are far too vague and ambiguous to be understood.

Agreed. The old system relies upon one's own decision, will and effort to follow God's will while the new system is guaranteed by God.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, or why you're posting this.

All sinners, or all commandments? I can only assume you mean all sinners as one need only fail to observe one commandment to be damned. Of course this is only within the context of those who are attempting to justify themselves. Those who are a new creation, no longer need to justify themselves because they are all justified in, with, and through Christ who keeps the commandments perfectly. This can only be if they are in Christ, and there is no sin in Christ. Those who continue to sin are still under the old system.
All sinners are under all of the commandments. The Commandments were given because sin increased. It was designed to condemn mankind. What we have done is disregard some of them and emulate others. Nobody can do that. That’s not in the Bible. With the Bible every command is a condemning command. It doesn’t matter if it’s moral ceremonial or judicial. It’s all law. It’s all condemnation. It does not matter if all of the infrastructure is there or not. Just because it is impossible to do the sacrificial system doesn’t make it null and void. It can be against the law to sacrifice an animal. However, it’s still must be kept. Because it is impossible to keep in many countries, sinners are condemned. That is why the temple was destroyed in the first place. It was not to destroy the law but to destroy the infrastructure and condemn Jews/sinners, rendering the Law impossible to keep and causing man to seek Grace as the alternative .
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
All sinners are under all of the commandments. The Commandments were given because sin increased.
Sin can't increase without the commandments. By definition, sin is transgression of the commandment, therefore what was added was not a commandment, but laws to deal with transgressions of the commandments, e.g. "the law that was added to deal with transgressions", "the curse of the law", "the law that was against us", etc. You're conflating the commandments with the system that was put in place to deal with transgressions.
It was designed to condemn mankind.
The law written in a book and placed "beside" the Ark is a witness against us, and should never be confused with the commandments that were placed "inside" the Ark which are for our benefit, e.g. "The Sabbath was made FOR man....etc."
With the Bible every command is a condemning command.
False. Love your neighbor as yourself is not a condemning command. Love the Lord your God is not a condemning command. There are plenty of others as well.
It doesn’t matter if it’s moral ceremonial or judicial. It’s all law.
Laws that are for your benefit are not laws that serve as witnesses against you. Big difference.
It’s all condemnation. It does not matter if all of the infrastructure is there or not. Just because it is impossible to do the sacrificial system doesn’t make it null and void. It can be against the law to sacrifice an animal. However, it’s still must be kept. Because it is impossible to keep in many countries, sinners are condemned. That is why the temple was destroyed in the first place. It was not to destroy the law but to destroy the infrastructure and condemn Jews/sinners, rendering the Law impossible to keep and causing man to seek Grace as the alternative .
This is too incoherent for me to address. Go with God. Be blessed.
 

Truther

Well-known member
Sin can't increase without the commandments. By definition, sin is transgression of the commandment, therefore what was added was not a commandment, but laws to deal with transgressions of the commandments, e.g. "the law that was added to deal with transgressions", "the curse of the law", "the law that was against us", etc. You're conflating the commandments with the system that was put in place to deal with transgressions.

The law written in a book and placed "beside" the Ark is a witness against us, and should never be confused with the commandments that were placed "inside" the Ark which are for our benefit, e.g. "The Sabbath was made FOR man....etc."

False. Love your neighbor as yourself is not a condemning command. Love the Lord your God is not a condemning command. There are plenty of others as well.

Laws that are for your benefit are not laws that serve as witnesses against you. Big difference.

This is too incoherent for me to address. Go with God. Be
Sin can't increase without the commandments. By definition, sin is transgression of the commandment, therefore what was added was not a commandment, but laws to deal with transgressions of the commandments, e.g. "the law that was added to deal with transgressions", "the curse of the law", "the law that was against us", etc. You're conflating the commandments with the system that was put in place to deal with transgressions.

The law written in a book and placed "beside" the Ark is a witness against us, and should never be confused with the commandments that were placed "inside" the Ark which are for our benefit, e.g. "The Sabbath was made FOR man....etc."

False. Love your neighbor as yourself is not a condemning command. Love the Lord your God is not a condemning command. There are plenty of others as well.

Laws that are for your benefit are not laws that serve as witnesses against you. Big difference.

This is too incoherent for me to address. Go with God. Be blessed.
Compare your first sentence to this verse....

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


It means transgressions created the law.

In other words, as men created sin, God created laws to counter men’s sin.

Also, love your neighbor is the fulfillment of the command. It is not in the 10 Commandments. It is per the NT, the law of love, the law of the Spirit, the law of liberty, which is love.

Love has replaced the entire Old Testament of Laws. If we love we will not offend in anyway. This is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

The love that I am speaking of is divine love imparted inside of us. It is God loving our neighbor through us. This is what is called yielding to the Spirit of God. The law does not provide that.

This is the very core of walking in the spirit per Galatians 5, which frees us from the law.
 

Truther

Well-known member
FYI, Jesus and Paul both taught the law to be including Psalms and the Prophets. All the books, not just 5 of them.
 

Truther

Well-known member
Jesus quoting psalms....

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Paul quoting the Prophets...

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.


Which completely contradicts the teaching that the five books Genesis through Deuteronomy are the law.
 
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