Magdalena
Well-known member
Ok, I’ll start. Mormonism teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation. And that everyone has to be baptized, dead or alive. So your temples are for salvation.
The LDS view of God's grace
- Thread starter dberrie2020
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dberrie2020
Super Member
In accordance with my understanding--yes.
Then why do you preach a gospel which excludes all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ--in obtaining eternal life?
Bonnie
Super Member
Your "understanding" is flawed. Because where is any of those things commanded by Jesus or the Apostles in the NT?
Why does your church preach a gospel where the most important part is building temples all over the world, going through the endowment in them, observing the WoW, being married and having marriages "sealed" in those temples, and wearing undergarments with Masonic symbols on them for the rest of one's life, if one wants full salvation to exaltation in the CK after death? When none of these things is even remotely commanded or even hinted at in the NT?
dberrie2020
Super Member
How is that any different than the traditional Jews of the NT asking the apostles where they were getting any of the numerous doctrines they were teaching?
IMO--having a church which is founded upon the living, mortal apostles and prophets, and not having heavenly revelations is ---nothing short of an anomaly.
So--could we ask that same questions of Moses? Where was any of the numerous laws Moses was commanded to give Israel--found in the scriptures prior to Moses receiving them?
Bonnie--you aren't part of a church founded upon the living, mortal apostles and prophets-- which receives those revelations, so naturally--you wouldn't understand it, any more than the traditional Jews of the NT did.
The core salvational doctrines of the LDS church are:
1) Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ
2) Repentance
3) Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins
4) Gift of the Holy Ghost
5) Enduring to the end
Which is all made possible through the Atonement of Jesus Christ--as a free gift to all men.
Bonnie
Super Member
Founding a church on living FALSE prophets and apostles is nothing to brag about--is it?
My church is founded upon the true Jesus Christ of the Bible, and the 12 TRUE apostles who always taught the truth--unlike your prophets and apostles who, though physically alive, are spiritually dead and teach heresies, and that unclean dead works done in whitewashed tombs are necessary to reach the highest level of heaven after death....you left that out of your list of doctrines...why? Isn't the temple and what is done inside of them arguably the most important part of your faith? And where did Jesus or the apostles command the building of Mormon temples and the ordinances done inside? Can you show us these commands IN THE BIBLE?
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dberrie2020
Super Member
How is that accusation any different than the accusation the traditional Jews were leveling against the NT apostles? Where do we find any such specific term as "apostles" in the OT scriptures? (the apostles were centuries before the NT canon)
Being founded on the foundation of the living, mortal apostles and prophets isn't a brag--it's the testimony of the NT scriptures:
Ephesians 2:20---King James Version
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Bonnie
Super Member
It is different because the church the traditional Jews railed against was and IS the true church of the true Jesus Christ of the Bible...isn't it?
Is Jesus Christ dead? OR does He live still? The apostles are physically dead, but are they with Christ in heaven--or not? Weren't they TRUE apostles, who taught only truth? They are quote unlike the apostles in YOUR church, who teach lies and false doctrines, don't they? What did Paul write?
This is what Mormons have done--your lying false prophet founder and all the "prophets" since then have proclaimed "another Jesus", one who is Satan's actual brother in some supposed, pre-mortal existence. Even one of your leaders has admitted that your Christ is not the Christ of Christendom (paraphrased)--and he is so right! Our Jesus Christ is infinitely greater than the ersatz Christ that Mormons believe in--a pallid copy of the real thing! Is a copy ever as good as the original?
Paul continues:
This describes your apostles and prophets to a "t." They proclaim a false God, who had to learn how to become a God, a false savior--Satan's actual brother--and a false gospel, based not upon the cross of Christ, but upon Mormon temples--whitewashed tombs in which are performed unclean, dead works to a false God in the name of a false Savior--don't they? They have exchanged the truth for lies--who is the father of lies, dberrie?
But the LDS church is a FALSE church, founded upon a LYING FALSE PROPHET, which teaches a FALSE gospel--which is NO Gospel at all--a false God, and a false Savior--Satan's actual brother (!)....those are the major differences, aren't they?
In the NT, the traditional Jews rejected the TRUE Jesus Christ, and rejected the TRUE church.
NOW, traditional, biblical Christians reject the FALSE LDS church because it teaches a FALSE Gospel--NO Gospel at all!--a false God, who was first a man on an earth who had to LEARN how to become a God, who was once as we are NOW, before he worked his way up to "godhood"--and a false Savior, Satan's actual brother (!) in the supposed pre-mortal, spirit existence. We know this because we can compare what the LDS church teaches with what is actually written in God's actual word, the Bible...can't we? And doctrines unique to the LDS church are "commandments of men"...aren't they?
But the TRUE church of the NT, the one biblical Christians on here all belong to, is and was founded upon Jesus Christ Himself--He Himself in Matthew called it "MY church." And said that the gates of hell/hades would NOT prevail against it--didn't He? BUT--according to your lying false prophet founder, the gates of hades/hell DID prevail against His church, for nearly 1800 years, until your lying false prophet founder came upon the scene, claiming he had come to 'restore" the true church--but he was nothing by a liar and a fraud--wasn't he? Since Jesus' true church is all true believers who have in the true Jesus Christ, regardless of their denominational affiliations--isn't it, dberrie? And there have ALWAYS been those, since Pentecost--God always keeps a remnant for Himself, doesn't He, dberrie?
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brotherofJared
Well-known member
This is called answering a question with a question but the sad part is that your question is totally unrelated. You're just repeating disinformation.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
Correct. If the truth be told, temple work doesn't have anything to do with Salvation. Temple work is merely the continuation of family. No one attending the temple can be saved unless and except they keep the covenants they make in the temple which is that they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.
brotherofJared
Well-known member
Your opinion is nothing to brag about either, yet you keep repeating it as though it was.
That should be the debate here, but it's not. One can clearly see that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is. Is there any church in the world like it? No. That would seem to indicate that no other church in the world is founded upon the true Jesus Christ of the Bible.
Theo1689
Well-known member
That the LDS church is "unique" doesn't make it "true".
The LDS church has a false god.
The LDS church has a false Christ.
The LDS church has a false gospel.
The LDS church has a false heaven.
The LDS church has false apostles and prophets.
The LDS church has false elders and deacons.
So how can it POSSIBLY be "Christ's true church"?
brotherofJared
Well-known member
Which is something we don't see in any other church in the world except in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In fact, most of these other churches don't even have Jesus Christ's name in their title.
Magdalena
Well-known member
Everyone who believes in Christ and the New Testament has apostles and prophets in their church.
Bonnie
Super Member
This is most certainly true...we have the true Jesus Christ of the Bible and His true Apostles who taught only truth as the foundation of our church...poor Mormons only have a lying false prophet founder and other false prophets, and false apostles, deceitful workers, as their church's foundation--nothing to boast about, is it?
Bonnie
Super Member
When are you going to answer my simple question about Cornelius, that I asked in an earlier post? Were he and his family and friends saved AFTER they received the gift of the Holy Spirit, but BEFORE they had been baptized in water? Yes or no?
brotherofJared
Well-known member
That's not a yes or no question, it's a before or after question.
They were saved by grace after all they could do.
Magdalena
Well-known member
Have we already discussed the specific mormon works that are required as part of “all you can do?”
Theo1689
Well-known member
No, it's NOT a "before or after" question.
It is a "yes" or "no" question.
It happens to be compound question, with two factors to address for the "yes" to be true, so maybe it's too complicated for Mormons to understand.
But that's okay.... We can break it down into two separate questions:
1) Were he and his family and friends saved AFTER they received the gift of the Holy Spirit,
Yes or no?
2) Were he and his family and friends saved BEFORE they had been baptized in water?
Yes or no?
Bonnie
Super Member
FALSE! It most definitely IS a "yes or no" question?
Where does it say that, in Acts 10?
And you will notice that I did make it an AFTER and BEFORE question but I will reverse it for you: WERE Cornelius et. al. saved BEFORE they were baptized in water, but AFTER they had believed Peter's message and had been baptized by the HS?
Still requires a yes or no answer, doesn't it?
Now, please answer my simple question.
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Bonnie
Super Member
So? I learned from an expert, one of your buddies on here...didn't I?
And what "disinformation" am I repeating? What I wrote about your temples is true, isn't it?
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