Another lie, Roger. Here is what you said from the beginning:You tried to recover there but your original statement was not qualified.
So that was 0/1.
In this quote, you said that you could achieve the meaning "I believe in my Lord and my God" by supplying only a verb with the meaning "believe."I see. At John 20:28 you follow those who supply a subject and verb to "My Lord and my God" for "You are My Lord and my God." This is the predicative view as "You" becomes the predicate of "My Lord and my God."
I supply my verb from the immediate context. In verse 27 Jesus told Thomas to believe, just like at John 14:1.
So Thomas naturally says "I believe in my Lord and my God." I call this the contextual objective view.
Just days earlier Jesus singles out Thomas and said: Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me. (ASV, John 14:1,5)
Both views are grammatical. I believe mine is more contextual.
In this quote, I pointed out the text can't mean "I believe in my Lord and my God" because it does not have datives. You then replied:Except that in John 14:1, 5 Thomas is not "singled out" by Jesus, and he doesn't express a lack of faith in God. He says they (the apostles) don't know where Jesus is going, and he questions how they will know where he went.
John 20 tells us what Thomas doesn't believe. ἔλεγον οὖν αὐτῷ οἱ ἄλλοι μαθηταί· ἑωράκαμεν τὸν κύριον. ὁ δὲ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· ἐὰν μὴ ἴδω ἐν ταῖς χερσὶν αὐτοῦ τὸν τύπον τῶν ἥλων καὶ βάλω τὸν δάκτυλόν μου εἰς τὸν τύπον τῶν ἥλων καὶ βάλω μου τὴν χεῖρα εἰς τὴν πλευρὰν αὐτοῦ, οὐ μὴ πιστεύσω. He didn't believe that the apostles had seen the Lord, as they kept telling him they had, and says he wouldn't believe it unless he had visual and tangible evidence. He seems to be indicating that he required more proof that Jesus had been raised than Jesus granted to the apostles earlier, where the text records only that they saw the Lord (καὶ τοῦτο εἰπὼν ἔδειξεν τὰς χεῖρας καὶ τὴν πλευρὰν αὐτοῖς. ἐχάρησαν οὖν οἱ μαθηταὶ ἰδόντες τὸν κύριον). When he saw Jesus on this occasion, he finally recognized that by seeing Jesus he had seen God (λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς· τοσούτῳ χρόνῳ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωκάς με, Φίλιππε; ὁ ἑωρακὼς ἐμὲ ἑώρακεν τὸν πατέρα).
It is likely to suppose that Thomas lost faith in Jesus as the Messiah (like those in Luke 24:41), but not likely that he stopped believing in God. The main point of John 14 is that access to God is impossible without belief in Jesus. This reinforced in John 21:31, "ταῦτα δὲ γέγραπται ἵνα πιστεύ[σ]ητε ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν ὁ χριστὸς ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, καὶ ἵνα πιστεύοντες ζωὴν ἔχητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι αὐτοῦ." It is this belief in Jesus that John builds his gospel around.
And since you seem so keen to talk about the Greek grammar I don't think you understand, I will also point out that πιστεύω would take datives...
And I rebutted you:I cited John 14:1 as support for my reading and respectfully point out that there we find it has the verb "believe" (πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεον) taking the accusative, not dative
The text cannot be understood in the manner you suggested since the dative case isn't present in the text. You did not mention adding a preposition along with a verb, so your example wasn't relevant.You find it there with a preposition that takes an accusative. You could also have it with ἐν with a dative. But you don't have either of these cases in John 20:28. Your newly proposed rendering requires you to supply both a verb and a preposition and would still require something different than the nominative case present in the verse, which you would know if you knew Greek...