Okay.
I misunderstood.
My apologies.
Thanks for helping me understand.
Best.
JAG
``
The logical truth and reality of God.
- Thread starter Tercon
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I misunderstood.
My apologies.
Thanks for helping me understand.
Best.
JAG
``
Whatsisface
Well-known member
Strider324
Member
All is well.No, it's my fault for not being clear.
Best Regards.
JAG
``
Lighthearted Atheist
Well-known member
Good luck with that. We will continue to use empirical evidence and build rockets, medicines, bridges, and everything we have ever built. We will continue to use empirical evidence to understand DNA, black holes, Dark Matter, and the nature of everything we know to be real.
If you think you can 'know' the nature of Dark Matter by 'belief in reality' then I look forward to your white paper and Nobel Prize acceptance speech. Otherwise we're going to use the data from hundreds of empirically built telescopes
Whatsisface
Well-known member
You also need reality itself to know, in order to have belief about it.
Here's objective evidence of God:
1. Time divided into BC and AD.
2. Organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army.
3. Hospitals built by Christian organizations.
4. Beautiful Christian artwork, edifices, statuary and literature.
5. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins and UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance.
6. The Ten Commandments and other literature displayed in public.
7. Christmas & Easter
8. Symbols on bumper stickers and flags.
9. Public debates in the name of Christianity.
10. Crosses and billboards erected to testify of Jesus Christ.
If God didn't exist, neither would this evidence.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
If God didn't exist, what might explain these things do you think?
Coincidence.
Of the most bizarre sort.
"Before Christ" wouldn't make sense if, say, you were talking about a belief in Thor.
Neither would Christmas or Easter.
Tetsugaku
Well-known member
Wrong. Worse, you know this is wrong and have refused to learn what evidence is.
Completely unsupported. All it takes for your listed items to exist is for people to believe that Christianty is true.
Tetsugaku
Well-known member
But it would make sense if you were talking about a crucified Jewish preacher you wrongly believed to be a supernatural messiah.
If Christianity was just a figment of imagination, would there be this much evidence, and containing so much variety?
Now add all the other evidence, and what do you have?
Tetsugaku
Well-known member
This much? You have no evidence.
Zero plus zero stlll equals zero I'm afraid.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
Yes, but Jesus existing, which I don't dispute, doesn't mean the stories about him are all true.
Your list can only get you so far because there is the real possibility that the stories about Jesus are just that, stories that grew in the telling. Your point here could just as easily be made about Mohammed and Islam which have left an enormous legacy as you say Christianity has left an enormous legacy, but you don't think Islam true.
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Sorry ... I don't believe that.
Virtually the entire world recognizes BC and AD as a valid dating method.
Not to mention Christmas, Easter, etc. and so on.
The whole world may not share its belief in Jesus Christ, but it has no choice in the matter.
That's correct.
There are myriads of stories about Jesus Christ that aren't true; from the Swoon Theory to He losing Himself in the crowd and someone else taking His place on the Cross, etc.
But those are lies, according to the Bible.
Appealing to retrospective falsification is your prerogative. Just don't expect everyone to go along with it.Whatsisface said:
That is correct. I believe Allah was a real, genuine [fallen] angel that walked the earth at one time.Whatsisface said:
Ditto for Thor, Zeus, and a myriad of other angels who paraded around, claiming to be gods.
Agreed.
Algor
Well-known member
OK, but then you are taking the things you list as evidence that the Bible is only true, but a whole bunch of things from the Muslim world (calenders, mosques, hospitals, music, countries calling themselves Muslim, etc) as evidence that the Koran is not true. I could say: objective evidence that Mohammed is the Prophet of God includes:
1. The Muslim Calender
2. Organizations such as the Red Crescent.
3. Hospitals built by Muslims
4. Beautiful Muslim artwork, edifices, calligraphy and music.
5. The Shehada on the Saudi flag
6. The lovely Muslim calligraphy glorifying Mohammed
7. Ramadan with Eid-al-Fitr
8. Symbols on bumper stickers and flags
9. Public debates in the name of Allah
10. Mecca and Medina and the Haj
Would I be mistaken in considering this objective evidence for the truth of the Koran? If so, why?
Whatsisface
Well-known member
But it's the veracity of the Bible that's in dispute, how do you know your favoured explanation as told in the Bible is the right one? It's possible Jesus died on the cross but stories of people seeing Jesus and the resurrection could still be just that, stories that grew in the telling that were later written down and became the Gospels. Do you deny this possibility?
The point is that whether Jesus rose from the dead or not, the stories of His resurrection and all that followed could still have happened which is why your list doesn't have the force you claim.
I don't expect that to be honest. My point is though that the Gospels can't prove Jesus is the Son of God and there are other possibilities for why Christianity grew and has had such an effect on our culture. Again, that's why your list isn't strong evidence that Jesus was/is the Son of God.
Which misses the point. Thousands of millions believe Islam true, there is a huge cultural legacy from Islam as there is from Christianity. Muslims can point to a list of their own such as yours and claim the same as you do for yours. Is Islam true?
This is why your list isn't a strong argument for the truth of Christianity.
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