The logical truth and reality of God.

Whatsisface

Well-known member
If absolutes exist in reality or are the product of reality, then they too require and imply some means or place in order to be known to exist. And the only way and place I know of that does and can fulfill this capacity is a believing mind.
But, if you know of some other way or place OUTSIDE of a believing mind that can fulfill this capacity, please say what it is and how it is known to work.
That would make them contingent, therefore not absolute. You can't have your cake and eat it.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
But then God being omniscient would be an observer of all the atoms and electrons in the universe, meaning all the wave functions would have collapsed already, which we know they haven't.

You're projecting. Do you know what "omniscient" means?

If God is "omniscient", then that would make the truth and reality the product of God's mind. And us rather would serve as the observers, but not the author of the truth and reality.

QM is just us observing how the truth and reality are known to us in real-time, but not us being reality. However, we still must embody the truth through our belief in order to make the reality known to us.

So, we get to participate in the reality of God with our believing minds.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
That would make them contingent, not necessary; conditional, not absolute.

It's like you don't understand what these words mean and are just making popcorn strings with them.
He's been doing the same thing for years here. He's equated God, knowledge, belief, truth and reality many many many times before this...
 

Tercon

Well-known member
That would make them contingent, therefore not absolute. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Strawman. Everything requires and implies a believing mind for their existence, including consciousness, the truth, logic and reality itself. All of these absolutes are the product of an omniscient being's believing mind.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
You're projecting. Do you know what "omniscient" means?
All knowing. If God is everywhere and can see everything, then all the wave functions should have collapsed.

I bet you can't say i'm projecting.
If God is "omniscient", then that would make the truth and reality the product of God's mind.

Why? That doesn't follow.
And us rather would serve as the observers, but not the author of the truth and reality.
Does god know everything?
QM is just us observing how the truth and reality are known to us in real-time, but not us being reality.
What? So we are not real?
However, we still must embody the truth through our belief in order to make the reality known to us.
Why are you talking about our beliefs and minds, when in the end you are really talking about God's beliefs and mind?
So, we get to participate in the reality of God with our believing minds.
How, when the majority of people on the earth don't believe in the reality of your God?
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Strawman. Everything requires and implies a believing mind for their existence, including consciousness, the truth, logic and reality itself. All of these absolutes are the product of an omniscient being's believing mind.
Strawman. If the laws of logic were contingent, they wouldn't be absolute, therefore they wouldn't be laws of logic.

Can God make a square circle?
 

5wize

Well-known member
If the truth, logic and reality always existed, because it is a violation of the Law of Non-Contradiction to suggest otherwise, then how or where could or can the truth, logic and reality have always been known to exist?
We don't know they always existed.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Strawman.
No strawman silly, as I am claiming what I know to be true and reality and not what you know, because it is fruitless to rely on someone whose mind is dependent on unbelief rather than belief for their access to the truth and reality.
If the laws of logic were contingent, they wouldn't be absolute, therefore they wouldn't be laws of logic.
Are the "laws of logic were contingent" or absolute? And if they are absolute, do they not still require a believing mind in order to be known to exist in reality?
Can God make a square circle?
No, because square circles cannot exist in reality.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
No strawman silly, as I am claiming what I know to be true and reality and not what you know, because it is fruitless to rely on someone whose mind is dependent on unbelief rather than belief for their access to the truth and reality.
This is as vague as can be. All of our minds are based on things we believe and things we don't believe.
Are the "laws of logic were contingent" or absolute? And if they are absolute, do they not still require a believing mind in order to be known to exist in reality?
They require minds to understand them, but not for what they refer to, to be true.
No, because square circles cannot exist in reality.
So then God is subject to the laws of logic. He, nor his mind, can therefore be the author of them. Or in other words, the laws of logic are not contingent.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
This is as vague as can be. All of our minds are based on things we believe and things we don't believe.

They require minds to understand them, but not for what they refer to, to be true.

So then God is subject to the laws of logic. He, nor his mind, can therefore not be the author of them. Or in other words, the laws of logic are not contingent on God nor his mind.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
This is as vague as can be. All of our minds are based on things we believe and things we don't believe.

They require minds to understand them, but not for what they refer to, to be true.

So then God is subject to the laws of logic. He, nor his mind, can therefore not be the author of them. Or in other words, the laws of logic are not contingent.
 
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