The logical truth and reality of God.

5wize

Well-known member
I don't think you can have a 'before' the initiation of time.
Yeah, I know. Not in the sense we know of "before" given our boundaries. But we're talking to a guy that thinks disembodied minds exists, can't distinguish between existence and perception, and can't tell the difference between contingent and necessary.

How about the term "before Planck time"?
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
But we're talking to a guy that thinks disembodied minds exists, can't distinguish between existence and perception, and can't tell the difference between contingent and necessary.
Strawman. I don't believe disembodied brains exist, but I do believe that there are plenty of brains that don't possess minds that are conscious of the truth and reality. Yours for instance, you don't even know how and why the truth and reality are known to you. And that's where we are here.
How about the term "before Planck time"?
Time is a human construct, but time does not exist in reality. And if consciousness like reality is only lived and experienced in the present tense, then reality and consciousness can only be known and experienced in a constant now or in eternal nowness, we do not and cannot experience reality and consciousness in any other mode but the present.
 

Ficciones

Active member
Strawman. I don't believe disembodied brains exist, but I do believe that there are plenty of brains that don't possess minds that are conscious of the truth and reality. Yours for instance, you don't even know how and why the truth and reality are known to you. And that's where we are here.

Time is a human construct, but time does not exist in reality. And if consciousness like reality is only lived and experienced in the present tense, then reality and consciousness can only be known and experienced in a constant now or in eternal nowness, we do not and cannot experience reality and consciousness in any other mode but the present.
Tercon is now channeling Ramtha
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I don't think you can have a 'before' the initiation of time.
You cannot "have a before the initiation of time" in reality, because time doesn't exist in reality. Reality isn't limited to the past and future, but reality like consciousness is only knowable and experienced in the present tense and by a believing mind. And outside of the present tense and believing mind consciousness and reality aren't realizable nor knowable.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
You cannot "have a before the initiation of time" in reality, because time doesn't exist in reality. Reality isn't limited to the past and future, but reality like consciousness is only knowable and experienced in the present tense and by a believing mind. And outside of the present tense and believing mind consciousness and reality aren't realizable nor knowable.
How do you know there is no such thing as time? Something's going on because the speed at which time passes can be altered. It can be slowed down for you if you travel at relativistic speeds or if you are close to a strong gravitational field.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
A direct answer to your question is not evasion.
More evasion. How is it an answer to 'have you ever seen or heard of a being or reality that didn't require a believing mind in order to be known to exist? If so, then please say what it is and how it functions without a believing mind'?
No, and that is not what I'm claiming. MIPUST however is a reality that doesn't require a mind in order to exist.
The question is: how do you know that "MIPUST" "is a reality that doesn't require a mind in order to exist", when in reality everything YOU KNOW YOU require YOUR believing mind in order to make it known to you, including everything YOU KNOW about "MIPUST", if "MIPUST" is in fact "a reality" silly?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
So humans constructed something that doesn't exist in reality?

Thankyou for proving atheists right.
Strawman and you are projecting your unbelief. Some humans have constructed something in and with their minds, like the tooth fairy or thinking that unbelief (atheism) exists, but these delusions don't apply in or to reality. Rather these delusions are just the figment of a deceived mind.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member

Tercon

Well-known member
How do you know there is no such thing as time? Something's going on because the speed at which time passes can be altered. It can be slowed down for you if you travel at relativistic speeds or if you are close to a strong gravitational field.
Actually the truth here is based on reality, and the truth and reality are gained through belief based knowledge.
Is it slowed down for the person going at that rate of speed or the one observing or measuring the rate of speed?
Also, if a physical object passes "close to a strong gravitational field", would this "strong gravitational field" slow or speed up the physical object?
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Actually the truth here is based on reality, and the truth and reality are gained through belief based knowledge.
Is it slowed down for the person going at that rate of speed or the one observing or measuring the rate of speed?
Also, if a physical object passes "close to a strong gravitational field", would this "strong gravitational field" slow or speed up the physical object?
Did you read my post too quickly? I have already given this information in the post you replied to. I said that both the faster you travel and/or the proximity to a gravitational field will slow the rate at which time passes for you.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Another "lie" or strawman, whichever you want to call your insidious strawmanning.

I wasn't referring to what you quoted from me to be the strawmanning silly, I was referring and denoting the part "Thankyou for proving atheists right" part of your post.

Strawman. This isn't a quote from me silly, it's from you. This is your strawman: "Thankyou for proving atheists right"
According to you, humans are able to construct things which do not exist in reality.

Sounds exactly like your god.
Strawman. If all knowledge of the truth and reality requires a belief in reality, then it is ONLY a belief in reality that informs us of the truth and reality and not some delusional construct like unbelief (atheism) or time. Which neither possesses a object of belief that exists in reality, rather time is just the unbelief in and denial of eternity
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Did you read my post too quickly? I have already given this information in the post you replied to. I said that both the faster you travel and/or the proximity to a gravitational field will slow the rate at which time passes for you.
Does it time slow for the one observing (and not traveling at the rate of speed) or just for the one traveling at the rate of speed?
Do strong gravitational fields just slow the rate of speed or slow down time?
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
More evasion. How is it an answer to 'have you ever seen or heard of a being or reality that didn't require a believing mind in order to be known to exist? If so, then please say what it is and how it functions without a believing mind'?
It was not an answer to that, because that is not what I was replying to. MIPUST is the answer to your OP question. Your above question was answered in the next part of my post where I said: "No, and that is not what I'm claiming." So again, direct answers to your questions are definitely not evasion.

The question is: how do you know that "MIPUST" "is a reality that doesn't require a mind in order to exist?
And I've already answered that too. It is stipulated. See the letters "MI" at the start of MIPUST? They stand for Mind-Independent". Can you give any argument at all for why MIPUST cannot be an alternative to the mind of God as a hosting location for reality?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Don't worry the Reader isn't stupid they will see who is lying. You must be a Democrat.
According to you, humans are able to construct things which do not exist in reality.

Sounds exactly like your god.
Strawman. If all knowledge of the truth and reality requires a belief in reality, then it is ONLY a belief in reality that informs us of the truth and reality and not some delusional construct like unbelief (atheism) or time. Which neither possesses a object of belief that exists in reality, rather time is just the unbelief in and denial of eternity
 
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