The logical truth and reality of God's believing mind.

Tercon

Well-known member
If the logical truth and reality exists and the only way and place that it can be known to exist and reside is in and with a believing mind, then the logical truth and reality must exist in God's believing mind.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
If the logical truth and reality exists and the only way and place that it can be known to exist and reside is in and with a believing mind, then the logical truth and reality must exist in God's believing mind.
If the laws of logic are absolute, they can't be contingent on anything, including a god, and would pertain no matter the worldview.
 

HouOz

Active member
If the logical truth and reality exists and the only way and place that it can be known to exist and reside is in and with a believing mind, then the logical truth and reality must exist in God's believing mind.
Prove god has a "believing mind".
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Prove god has a "believing mind".

If the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and reside is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the product of Someone's believing mind. And that Someone is God.
 

5wize

Well-known member
If the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and reside is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the product of Someone's believing mind. And that Someone is God.
There is no such thing as a mind detached from a biological brain. Therefore your concept of God cannot possibly exist.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
If the laws of logic are absolute, they can't be contingent on anything, including a god, and would pertain no matter the worldview.

Even the truth, logic, reality and physicality requires a believing in order to occur or to provide a way and place that wave function collapse can occur. The only way and place that anything can occur is in and with a believing mind, because it is only a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to occur to begin with. Nothing can be known to exist outside of a believing mind, because it is ONLY a believing mind that can believe and outside of belief the truth and reality is unknowable.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
There is no such thing as a mind detached from a biological brain. Therefore your concept of God cannot possibly exist.

I have seen lots of brains with no believing minds, I have even held a few in my hands and not one of them indicated in any way that something existed in them other than brain matter. So believing minds don't exist in brains, rather belief is only known to exist in and with a believing mind. And believing is purely a mental action of a mind and not the physical brain at all. Belief and believing minds are conceptual and abstract in nature like an idea. Belief is like logic, truth and morality. It contains no physicality, but it can still be known to exist in reality.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Even the truth, logic, reality and physicality requires a believing in order to occur or to provide a way and place that wave function collapse can occur.
You have no evidence for this claim.

aka. your argument boils down to faith.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Even the truth, logic, reality and physicality requires a believing in order to occur or to provide a way and place that wave function collapse can occur. The only way and place that anything can occur is in and with a believing mind, because it is only a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to occur to begin with. Nothing can be known to exist outside of a believing mind, because it is ONLY a believing mind that can believe and outside of belief the truth and reality is unknowable.
You're making it up as you go along.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
If the logical truth and reality exists and the only way and place that it can be known to exist and reside is in and with a believing mind, then the logical truth and reality must exist in God's believing mind.
What on Earth made you think this nonsense warranted yet another new thread? You're still committing all the same errors as the last thousand times you posted the exact same claims: You are misusing the term 'logical truth', your language remains ambiguous (between locating knowledge and locating existence), your conclusion does not follow, and it remains impossible for reality to be located in a mind (as this requires the existence of something not a part of reality).
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Evasion. Show me how and why what I said is false. I made a statement, a claim, now say why it is false. Just saying it isn't true isn't refuting it. That's called scoffing.
Your understanding of quantum mechanics is naïve. The collapse of the wave function doesn't need an actual observer, if that's what you meant. It was hard to tell, you weren't clear.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
What on Earth made you think this nonsense warranted yet another new thread? You're still committing all the same errors as the last thousand times you posted the exact same claims: You are misusing the term 'logical truth', your language remains ambiguous (between locating knowledge and locating existence), your conclusion does not follow, and it remains impossible for reality to be located in a mind (as this requires the existence of something not a part of reality).

Actually it just requires something outside of physicality. And belief and a believing mind is not physical at all and does fall outside of physicality. Belief and a believing mind is purely abstract and conceptual in nature. That's why the past and future doesn't apply to belief and a believing mind and reality is knowable like a believing mind is knowable, because there is nothing knowable like a believing mind in reality. A matter of fact the only way and place that reality can be known to exist and reside is in and by a believing mind. Like I told you, I seen lots of physical brains and even held them in my hands and they could not tell me a darn thing. However, a believing mind opens up the truth and reality to us. What else is capable of that unbeliever?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Your understanding of quantum mechanics is naïve. The collapse of the wave function doesn't need an actual observer, if that's what you meant. It was hard to tell, you weren't clear.

I don't see where you refuted what I said about QM. Does wave function collapse require "an observer" or measurer in order for wave function collapse to occur or not?
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Actually it just requires something outside of physicality. And belief and a believing mind is not physical at all and does fall outside of physicality. Belief and a believing mind is purely abstract and conceptual in nature. That's why the past and future doesn't apply to belief and a believing mind and reality is knowable like a believing mind is knowable, because there is nothing knowable like a believing mind in reality. A matter of fact the only way and place that reality can be known to exist and reside is in and by a believing mind. Like I told you, I seen lots of physical brains and even held them in my hands and they could not tell me a darn thing. However, a believing mind opens up the truth and reality to us. What else is capable of that unbeliever?
I listed four objections, and you've only responded to one and got it very wrong. Locating reality in something else requires more than just that the thing be non-physical. So long as the thing is non-physical but still REAL it will be a part of reality, and therefore not something that reality itself can be located within. Nothing else you've said here even addresses what I said, but I will note that beliefs are very much a part of spatio-temporal reality, and are obviously subject to time. Anything believed is believed by a certain person at a certain time and place.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I listed four objections, and you've only responded to one and got it very wrong.

I see no refutation bluff.

Locating reality in something else requires more than just that the thing be non-physical.

How do you know?

So long as the thing is non-physical but still REAL it will be a part of reality, and therefore not something that reality itself can be located within.

Illogical nonsense.

Belief, logic, truth, morality, consciousness and existence itself are all exist in reality and thus are reality. And to suggest that just because something can be known to be a part of reality doesn't mean that a believing mind can't be reality. After all, it is only in and by a believing mind that any of these things can be known and experienced. Therefore, if it is only in and by a believing mind that the truth, logic, morality, goodness, beauty, consciousness and existence can be known to exist and be experienced, then there is no other way or place that reality can be known to exist, because it is only in a believing mind that these things can be known to reside. Like I told you; if you can't show the truth and reality to be known to exist anywhere outside or without a believing mind, then there is nowhere else that these thing can be made known to exist. And you have even begun to even deal with this truth.

Nothing else you've said here even addresses what I said, but I will note that beliefs are very much a part of spatio-temporal reality, and are obviously subject to time. Anything believed is believed by a certain person at a certain time and place.

Belief is not limited to or by time.

I can know right now, in the present, not the past or future but right now in the present tense that something that was only discovered a 100 years ago existed before it was discovered, as it is only a believing mind that can do that.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I see no refutation bluff.
I'm not responsible for your failure to read.

How do you know?
I just told you.

Illogical nonsense.
Unsupported.

Belief, logic, truth, morality, consciousness and existence itself are all exist in reality and thus are reality. And to suggest that just because something can be known to be a part of reality doesn't mean that a believing mind can't be reality. After all, it is only in and by a believing mind that any of these things can be known and experienced. Therefore, if it is only in and by a believing mind that the truth, logic, morality, goodness, beauty, consciousness and existence can be known to exist and be experienced, then there is no other way or place that reality can be known to exist, because it is only in a believing mind that these things can be known to reside. Like I told you; if you can't show the truth and reality to be known to exist anywhere outside or without a believing mind, then there is nowhere else that these thing can be made known to exist. And you have even begun to even deal with this truth.
None of this addresses my point.

Belief is not limited to or by time.
Of course it is.

I can know right now, in the present, not the past or future but right now in the present tense that something that was only discovered a 100 years ago existed before it was discovered, as it is only a believing mind that can do that.
Which no-one disputes, and which also refutes your own claims.
 
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