The logical truth and reality of God's believing mind.

Experts don't make anything true. That's just a appeal to authority.

You have to rely on belief in order to make the truth and reality known to you and it's only the truth and reality that can make you believe. I am just saying things that are undeniably true and you can't find a reason to disbelieve it, because if you could then you would just say what YOUR own reason is for your disagreement and not rely on someone else's.

Every bit of evidence that I have ever seen required and entailed observation and measurement, and both entail a believing mind in order to observe or undertake.
Belief doesn't make anything true either.
 
But it does make everything that is true; made known to be true.
No, if you're being rational you have to realise something is true before you can believe it. Belief doesn't make anything that is true known to be true, understanding does that then belief follows.
 
No, if you're being rational you have to realise something is true before you can believe it. Belief doesn't make anything that is true known to be true, understanding does that then belief follows.

So you disbelieve that belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to you?
 
Evasion. The point here is not the above, it's that wave function collapse doesn't need a conscious mind. This is from someone who has studied the subject in depth, and you haven't.

How do you know that wave function collapse doesn't need or entail consciousness and a believing mind?
 
So you disbelieve that belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to you?
Understanding comes first which is what makes the truth and reality known, then you believe it because of the understanding. Belief doesn't make truth and reality known, understanding does that then you believe it because of the understanding.
 
Because of what the experts tell me. How do you know it does?

Because everything that's true and is a part of reality entails and requires a believing mind in order to be made known in reality.

I don't know what these people you are calling experts are experts in, but it's definitely not in how and why the truth and reality is known to them.

Listen, if anyone, and I mean anyone tells you that consciousness or a believing mind isn't entailed and required in order to make anything and everything known to you, then they are dead wrong. You don't need a expert for this, this is something you have to know and experience for yourself and not leave it to someone else.
 
Because everything that's true and is a part of reality entails and requires a believing mind in order to be made known in reality.
No it doesn't. Understanding makes things known, belief comes after understanding and is not the element that makes things known.

Your post says nothing of quantum mechanics, nor shows you have an understanding of quantum mechanics.
I don't know what these people you are calling experts are experts in, but it's definitely not in how and why the truth and reality is known to them.
They are experts in quantum mechanics which is the point under discussion, and that you have diverted from yet again.
Listen, if anyone, and I mean anyone tells you that consciousness or a believing mind isn't entailed and required in order to make anything and everything known to you, then they are dead wrong. You don't need a expert for this, this is something you have to know and experience for yourself and not leave it to someone else.
Ah, so now its consciousness and a believing mind, instead of just a believing mind. You've changed things yet again. You need consciousness to understand something. Then you believe something because of the understanding. Your basic premise is flawed.
 
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No it doesn't. Understanding makes things known, belief comes after understanding and is not the element that makes things known.

How can you understand or know anything about the truth and reality without believing it silly?

Your post says nothing of quantum mechanics, nor shows you have ant understanding of quantum mechanics.

If QM is true or is a part of reality, then QM too requires and entails a believing mind in order for it to occur.

That's why in QM experiments the results are different when something is observed or measured from when it isn't observed or measured. It is because for even physical occurrences to occur a believing mind is necessary in order for those occurrences to occur in and with. And without a believing mind and something to observe and measure its occurrence, it can't be known to occur.

They are experts in quantum mechanics which is the point under discussion, and that you have diverted from yet again.

Their interpretation of QM is wrong. They aren't an expert in the truth and reality. They don't even know what the truth and reality is.

Ah, so now its consciousness and a believing mind, instead of just a believing mind.
You've changed things yet again. You need consciousness to understand something.

Strawman. If a believing mind requires consciousness, consciousness must entail a believing mind.

Then you believe something because of the understanding. Your basic premise is flawed.

Strawman. I believe because belief is what makes the truth and reality known to me, we can't understand or know anything about what we don't even believe exists.
 
How can you understand or know anything about the truth and reality without believing it silly?
Easy. You have to understand something before you can believe it, silly. Belief doesn't make it known, understanding does.
If QM is true or is a part of reality, then QM too requires and entails a believing mind in order for it to occur.
This is the point under debate that you are using quantum mechanics to support. Repeating your conclusion doesn't show how you are right.
That's why in QM experiments the results are different when something is observed or measured from when it isn't observed or measured. It is because for even physical occurrences to occur a believing mind is necessary in order for those occurrences to occur in and with. And without a believing mind and something to observe and measure its occurrence, it can't be known to occur.
Expwerts say that this isn't so. Forgive, but i'm going to believe them over you, who isn't an expert.
Their interpretation of QM is wrong. They aren't an expert in the truth and reality. They don't even know what the truth and reality is.
Prove it.
Strawman. If a believing mind requires consciousness, consciousness must entail a believing mind.

Strawman. I believe because belief is what makes the truth and reality known to me, we can't understand or know anything about what we don't even believe exists.
Strawman. Understanding makes things known not belief. You can't rationally believe something true before you understand it.
 
Easy. You have to understand something before you can believe it, silly. Belief doesn't make it known, understanding does.

Does understanding entail belief or does belief entail understand?

This is the point under debate that you are using quantum mechanics to support. Repeating your conclusion doesn't show how you are right.

Expwerts say that this isn't so. Forgive, but i'm going to believe them over you, who isn't an expert.

Prove it.

Name one thing you can know about the truth and reality without a believing mind or "consciousness" silly?

Strawman. Understanding makes things known not belief. You can't rationally believe something true before you understand it.

You cannot understand what you don't even believe to exist silly. You are delusional.
 
Does understanding entail belief or does belief entail understand?
I keep saying, and it is a simple enough point, you can't rationally believe something true until you understand it. The understanding comes first, then you believe it. It's the understanding that makes things known, not the belief.
Name one thing you can know about the truth and reality without a believing mind or "consciousness" silly?
This is not the asked for proof.
You cannot understand what you don't even believe to exist silly. You are delusional.
Rubbish, that's not what we're talking about. It's another bait and switch. In order to rationally believe something true, I have to understand it as true first.
 
I keep saying, and it is a simple enough point, you can't rationally believe something true until you understand it. The understanding comes first, then you believe it. It's the understanding that makes things known, not the belief.

Again, how can you understand what you don't even believe exists silly?

This is not the asked for proof.

Irrelevant, because it is still a proof, since YOU cannot know about the truth and reality without a believing mind or "consciousness"?

Rubbish, that's not what we're talking about. It's another bait and switch. In order to rationally believe something true, I have to understand it as true first.

Strawman. Again, how can you understand what you don't even believe exists silly?
 
The logical truth and reality of God's believing mind is that there's no evidence it exists.
Kinda like a consistent temp for the boiling point of water?

Is there any evidence that the truth and reality exists? YES

Can you say or suggest that the truth and reality doesn't exist without contradicting yourself? NO

Is it true that the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist is in and with a believing mind? YES

So, to suggest that there is no evidence that the truth and reality doesn't exist in God's believing mind is NOT true nor reality is it?.
 
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