The logical truth and reality of God's believing mind.

Tercon

Well-known member
Tiburon said belief is not sufficient. You have responded by saying that belief is necessary. Tiburon did not say belief isn't necessary - he said it was not sufficient. Do you see your disconnect here, or do you still not understand the difference?

Not at all, as if belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to you, then who cares about your opinion about belief's capacity, when belief MUST occur before the truth and reality is known to you. So your opinion of belief is irrelevant, because the truth and reality demands your belief before it will give up its treasure. Your opinion is foolishness in regards to the truth and reality, because you either believe it and it is known to you, or you disbelieve and pretend your opinion counts here somehow and the truth and reality is unknowable to you.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Not at all, as if belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to you, then who cares about your opinion about belief's capacity, when belief MUST occur before the truth and reality is known to you. So your opinion of belief is irrelevant, because the truth and reality demands your belief before it will give up its treasure. Your opinion is foolishness in regards to the truth and reality, because you either believe it and it is known to you, or you disbelieve and pretend your opinion counts here somehow and the truth and reality is unknowable to you.
So you still don't understand the difference between necessary and sufficient. That's what I thought.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Despite you never having shown what I have said to be false or illogical, then you are either extremely ignorant or a outright liar. And I will even let you choose which one you want to be known as?
I see someone else is saying the same to you, that no one here takes you seriously.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
So you still don't understand the difference between necessary and sufficient. That's what I thought.

Strawman.
You haven't shown that I "don't understand the difference between necessary and sufficient". Rather I just believe that a belief in reality is necessarily sufficient to make the truth known. Justified True Beliefs are still beliefs and they had to still occur in reality before the truth is known.
And all you have done is show how you pretend to believe belief is necessary. The truth and reality doesn't care about your opinion or feelings about the necessity or sufficiency of belief, as if belief is necessary then it MUST occur in order to make the truth and reality known to you. So, your opinion as to it capacity to make the truth and reality known to you is just you projecting of your own unbelief. Since in reality you cannot know the truth by disbelieving in belief's capacity to make the truth known.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Nor do you, silly. But I know what they think here.

Sure I do, as all believers without exception believe God is the truth and reality. And if they don't, then they aren't believers.

I see someone else is saying the same to you, that no one here takes you seriously.

I don't take anyone who disbelieves in the truth and reality of God seriously, because if the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality and all of its occurrences must be the product of a believing mind. And if something is true and a part of reality, then it must have come from a believing mind, because there is no other way or place that the truth and reality can be known to occur. And you have shown none of these things to be false or illogical about the truth and reality. So your words are very hollow to say the least. What can be more silly than arguing with strangers for years over something you don't even believe to exist, that's the foolishness of believing your unbelief (atheism) exists.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Sure I do, as all believers without exception believe God is the truth and reality. And if they don't, then they aren't believers.
Yeah, same old bait and switch from you. This isn't the point, being, no one, not atheist or believer think as you that reality is contained within a mind.
I don't take anyone who disbelieves in the truth and reality of God seriously, because if the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality and all of its occurrences must be the product of a believing mind. And if something is true and a part of reality, then it must have come from a believing mind, because there is no other way or place that the truth and reality can be known to occur. And you have shown none of these things to be false or illogical about the truth and reality. So your words are very hollow to say the least. What can be more silly than arguing with strangers for years over something you don't even believe to exist, that's the foolishness of believing your unbelief (atheism) exists.
You've been here for years saying the same old same old, and no one believes you.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Yeah, same old bait and switch from you. This isn't the point, being, no one, not atheist or believer think as you that reality is contained within a mind.

Do you know what the word 'ONLY' means?

If the ONLY way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and can be known to occur is in and with a believing mind, then what other way or place outside of a believing mind can the truth and reality be known to exist and known to occur silly?

Some believers may not realize that God has a believing mind. But the Bible does indicate Christ had faith and believed. And God commands us, recommends us and commends us for believing 245 times in the New Testament alone. So, if Christ is the truth incarnate and God reality and the truth and reality can ONLY be known to exist and occur in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must have originated in and with God's believing mind

You've been here for years saying the same old same old, and no one believes you.

Yup. And you have not refuted my claims yet. You have come up with many schemes to hide these truths from yourself, but the truth keeps you coming back for more. God does say that My truth will not come back empty.

For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (Isaiah 55:10-11)
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Do you know what the word 'ONLY' means?

If the ONLY way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and can be known to occur is in and with a believing mind, then what other way or place outside of a believing mind can the truth and reality be known to exist and known to occur silly?
Do you know what the word IF means?
Yup. And you have not refuted my claims yet. You have come up with many schemes to hide these truths from yourself, but the truth keeps you coming back for more. God does say that My truth will not come back empty.
You seem incapable of realising when your claims have been refuted.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Strawman. You haven't shown that I "don't understand the difference between necessary and sufficient".
You just showed me that. Do you think you do understand the difference between necessary and sufficient? Please explain it with examples.
 

Tiburon

Member
More nonsense. I knew the logical truth and reality existed without perceiving it, because it is belief and a believing mind that makes the logical truth and reality known to us. No perception needed.
You perceive reality. You perceive logical truth based upon that reality. Without perception you know nothing.
 

Tiburon

Member
Illogical nonsense, as belief is what makes the truth and reality known to everyone, because without belief or a believing mind the truth and reality is unknowable to you.
Belief, as you have been told many times, is not sufficient.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
You perceive reality. You perceive logical truth based upon that reality. Without perception you know nothing.

Not true. The logical truth and reality are belief based, because without belief neither is knowable neither has no way or place to occur without a believing mind. Even physical occurrences require and entail a believing mind in order to occur and exist.

Belief, as you have been told many times, is not sufficient.

Disbelieving in belief's capacity to make the truth and reality known to you is universal unbelief and is the reason you don't know the truth and reality of God.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
You just showed me that. Do you think you do understand the difference between necessary and sufficient? Please explain it with examples.

Do you understand what necessary means? It would seem you don't, belief is necessary because YOU cannot know the truth and reality without it. So, it is belief that makes the truth and reality known to you and not your silly opinion of its sufficiency.

Disbelieving in belief's capacity to make the truth and reality known to you is universal unbelief and is the reason you don't know how and why the truth and reality is known. The truth and reality doesn't care about what you think. Belief being necessary means you have to believe it regardless and if you don't you get to wallow around on a Christian website arguing with strangers for decades over what you don't even believe to exist.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Do you understand what necessary means? It would seem you don't, belief is necessary because YOU cannot know the truth and reality without it. So, it is belief that makes the truth and reality known to you and not your silly opinion of its sufficiency silly.

Disbelieving in belief's capacity to make the truth and reality known to you is universal unbelief and is the reason you don't know how and why the truth and reality is known. The truth and reality doesn't care about what you think silly. Belief being necessary means you have to believe it regardless and if you don't you get to wallow around on a Christian website arguing with strangers for decades over what you don't even believe to exist.
You keep confirming that you have no understanding at all of the difference between necessary and sufficient. Would you like to try again?

Do you think you do understand the difference between necessary and sufficient? Please explain it with examples.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
You keep confirming that you have no understanding at all of the difference between necessary and sufficient. Would you like to try again?

Do you think you do understand the difference between necessary and sufficient? Please explain it with examples.

Name one belief you have that you disbelieve is sufficient to make its truthfulness and reality known to you bluff?
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Name one belief you have that you disbelieve is sufficient to make its truthfulness and reality known to you bluff?
You've again failed to show that you understand the difference between necessary and sufficient. Would you like to try again? You are welcome to consult a dictionary first, if you think that might help.
 

Tiburon

Member
Not true. The logical truth and reality are belief based, because without belief neither is knowable neither has no way or place to occur without a believing mind. Even physical occurrences require and entail a believing mind in order to occur and exist.



Disbelieving in belief's capacity to make the truth and reality known to you is universal unbelief and is the reason you don't know the truth and reality of God.
Without perception you have nothing to base your belief or knowledge on. Belief requires incoming information. That requires perception.

Belief doesn't 'make' things true.
 

Tiburon

Member
Name one belief you have that you disbelieve is sufficient to make its truthfulness and reality known to you bluff?
All of them. Every belief I have is insufficient to make its truthfulness and reality known. They all require more than just belief.
 
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