The Lord Jesus is the omniscient Grand Creator (Proverbs 15:3)

Fred

Well-known member
Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of Jehovah are everywhere,
Watching both the bad and the good. (New World Translation)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Proverbs+15%3A3

1. The Jehovah's Witnesses cite Proverbs 15:3 in reference to Jehovah's omniscience as the Grand Creator.
a. Insight on the Scriptures: Of Jehovah's omniscience and his purpose to exercise justice toward all, the apostle Paul wrote: "There is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting." (Heb 4:13; 2Ch 16:9; Ps 66:7; Pr 15:3) (Eye, page 789)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001465

b. The Watchtower: We should realize that nothing escapes the notice of our Grand Creator. (Proverbs 15:3) (Are You Fulfilling Your Whole Obligation to God?, November 15, 1999, page 22)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1999844

2. Jehovah's omniscience as the Grand Creator is used in reference to the Lord Jesus (Revelation 5:6).
a. Revelation—Its Grand Climax: Like his Father, Jesus has perfect discernment. Nothing escapes his notice. ("Who is Worthy to Open the Scroll?", page 85)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988015




Further evidence
1 Peter 2:25

For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls. (New World Translation)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=1+Peter+2%3A25

1. The Jehovah's Witnesses affirm that the "Grand Creator" (see "b" above) is being referred to in 1 Peter 2:25, but also teach 1 Peter 2:25 is in reference to Jesus!
a. The Watchtower: “The shepherd and overseer of your souls,” our Grand Creator, Jehovah God, will help you to achieve that goal.—1 Peter 2:25. (Shepherding With Our Grand Creator, January 1, 1993, page 19)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993003

b. The Watchtower: Jesus' disciples were grateful for his fellowship. Though they called him Lord and Master, he proved himself to be a fellow worker. He was their overseer, but one who set the example for them by sharing right along with them in the work that was to be done. (1 Pet. 2:25) (Giving Encouragement to Others, July 15, 1963, page 434).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1963523
 

Nathan P

Active member
Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of Jehovah are everywhere,
Watching both the bad and the good. (New World Translation)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Proverbs+15%3A3

1. The Jehovah's Witnesses cite Proverbs 15:3 in reference to Jehovah's omniscience as the Grand Creator.
a. Insight on the Scriptures: Of Jehovah's omniscience and his purpose to exercise justice toward all, the apostle Paul wrote: "There is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting." (Heb 4:13; 2Ch 16:9; Ps 66:7; Pr 15:3) (Eye, page 789)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001465

b. The Watchtower: We should realize that nothing escapes the notice of our Grand Creator. (Proverbs 15:3) (Are You Fulfilling Your Whole Obligation to God?, November 15, 1999, page 22)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1999844

2. Jehovah's omniscience as the Grand Creator is used in reference to the Lord Jesus (Revelation 5:6).
a. Revelation—Its Grand Climax: Like his Father, Jesus has perfect discernment. Nothing escapes his notice. ("Who is Worthy to Open the Scroll?", page 85)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988015




Further evidence
1 Peter 2:25

For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your souls. (New World Translation)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=1+Peter+2%3A25

1. The Jehovah's Witnesses affirm that the "Grand Creator" (see "b" above) is being referred to in 1 Peter 2:25, but also teach 1 Peter 2:25 is in reference to Jesus!
a. The Watchtower: “The shepherd and overseer of your souls,” our Grand Creator, Jehovah God, will help you to achieve that goal.—1 Peter 2:25. (Shepherding With Our Grand Creator, January 1, 1993, page 19)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993003

b. The Watchtower: Jesus' disciples were grateful for his fellowship. Though they called him Lord and Master, he proved himself to be a fellow worker. He was their overseer, but one who set the example for them by sharing right along with them in the work that was to be done. (1 Pet. 2:25) (Giving Encouragement to Others, July 15, 1963, page 434).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1963523
All b does is prove the Word according to their information is that he was a fellow worker and not the main one. So why are you saying it has to do with someone who is the creator other than the Father because they clearly denote the Father as the creator there?
 
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Fred

Well-known member
All b does is prove the Word according to their information is that he was a fellow worker and not the main one.

Your assertion is incorrect, because according to the Jehovah's Witness the Grand Creator in Proverbs 15:3 is the Almighty.
The Watchtower: The Scriptures tell us: “The eyes of Jehovah are in every place, keeping watch upon the bad ones and the good ones.” (Prov. 15:3) With this comforting thought in mind, we can content ourselves with doing our assigned tasks, happy in the knowledge that the Almighty Sovereign himself is in complete control of his organization. (Finding Contentment with Jehovah's Organization, August 1, 1967, page 468)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1967563

So why are you saying it has to do with someone who is the creator other than the Father because they clearly denote the Father as the creator there?

They apply the "Grand Creator" in 1 Peter 2:25, and they also affirm that this passage is in reference to Jesus.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Your assertion is incorrect, because according to the Jehovah's Witness the Grand Creator in Proverbs 15:3 is the Almighty.
The Watchtower: The Scriptures tell us: “The eyes of Jehovah are in every place, keeping watch upon the bad ones and the good ones.” (Prov. 15:3) With this comforting thought in mind, we can content ourselves with doing our assigned tasks, happy in the knowledge that the Almighty Sovereign himself is in complete control of his organization. (Finding Contentment with Jehovah's Organization, August 1, 1967, page 468)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1967563



They apply the "Grand Creator" in 1 Peter 2:25, and they also affirm that this passage is in reference to Jesus.
No they do not refer to Jesus as the grand creator because as you were just told they refer to him as a fellow worker. They clearly refer to his God as the grand creator.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Your confusion doesn't matter.

The JW's apply 1 Peter 2:25 to the Grand Creator Jesus.
No they do not as they talk about the grand creator without a name. They then talk about Jehovah God as our grand creator and Jesus name is not used as being the grand creator in neither a or b.
 
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bluedog1us

Well-known member
No they do not as they talk about the grand creator without a name. They then talk about Jehovah God as our grand creator and Jesus name is not used as being the grand creator in neither a or b.
One has to look no further than John chapter 1 to see Who created EVERYTHING:

John 1
1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Everything was made by Him ( the Word).
So IF He is not God, He would have had to create Himself, before He was, according to your theology.
 

bluedog1us

Well-known member
One has to look no further than John chapter 1 to see Who created EVERYTHING:

John 1
1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Everything was made by Him ( the Word).
So IF He is not God, He would have had to create Himself, before He was, according to your theology.
You must be hard of reading. The CONTEXT is the WORD. And the WORD is Jesus. Pretty simple. The Word became flesh. Jesus became flesh. 2+2=4
 

Nathan P

Active member
One has to look no further than John chapter 1 to see Who created EVERYTHING:

John 1
1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Everything was made by Him ( the Word).
So IF He is not God, He would have had to create Himself, before He was, according to your theology.
Nothing was created by the Word and that has been proven many times as they agree the him was the creator in John 1 and since the life in the him was Jesus then the him can not be Jesus too. That leaves the Father as being the him or the creator. You need to keep reading to see who the life in the him was as you have to look further to see what it is saying as you are stopping at vs 3 and are not continuing.
 

bluedog1us

Well-known member
Nothing was created by the Word and that has been proven many times as they agree the him was the creator in John 1 and since the life in the him was Jesus then the him can not be Jesus too. That leaves the Father as being the him or the creator. You need to keep reading to see who the life in the him was as you have to look further to see what it is saying as you are stopping at vs 3 and are not continuing.
Well looks like you need reading aids. You are just hard of reading. Paul speaking of Jesus:

Col. 1

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So, will you call the Holy Spirit a liar? If you do, that is blasphemy, for which there is NO forgiveness! Be very careful!
 

Nathan P

Active member
Well looks like you need reading aids. You are just hard of reading. Paul speaking of Jesus:

Col. 1

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So, will you call the Holy Spirit a liar? If you do, that is blasphemy, for which there is NO forgiveness! Be very careful!
Like you were told you have to identify who the him is and the him can not be Jesus because the life in the him was Jesus and that leaves the him as being the Father because the life in the him and the him can not both be Jesus. Like you were told read further and tell me who the life in the him was?
 

bluedog1us

Well-known member
Like you were told you have to identify who the him is and the him can not be Jesus because the life in the him was Jesus and that leaves the him as being the Father because the life in the him and the him can not both be Jesus. Like you were told read further and tell me who the life in the him was?
Have a great day. I can explaining it to you but I can't understand it for you!
 

Nathan P

Active member
Have a great day. I can explaining it to you but I can't understand it for you!
I see you do not want to say who the life in the him was because it will prove my point.

Now let us say for instance you are right? First if I told you to put the stuff in the room and on the chair in the truck, that means you only put the stuff in the room and on the chair in the truck and you are not to put the room and the chair in the truck correct?. Likewise when it says at vs 16 he created everything in heaven and on earth concerning thrones and dominions and so forth that means he did not create the heaven and the earth and he only created what was in the heaven and on the earth concerning thrones, dominions and so forth? Also no life or land or water was created at vs 16 because God created the heavens and the earth at gen. 1 and brought up the dry land and water later.
 

Nathan P

Active member
Have a great day. I can explaining it to you but I can't understand it for you!
It is not what you want it to say and instead we go by what it means and since there is only one Jesus then since the life in the him was Jesus, then the him (the creator) could not have been Jesus too. And I do not need reading aids to understand that there is only one Jesus.
 
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