The Lord Jesus "TWO FOLD" Return

101G

Well-known member
Scripture,
Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

Luke 9:26 "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels."

Many scholars have said, these verses have not yet been fulfilled. we disagree. these verses has been fulfilled, and they were fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, by the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, coming in the manifestation of his "GIFTS", meaning it is the Lord Jesus who manifested in his Spiritual "Gifts" the Holy Spirit, which he is.

this RETURN, is the First of his TWO FOLD RETURN. A. in Spirit, (the Day of Pentecost, which fulfills all three verses above). and B. his Parousia, in Glorified flesh, per Hebrews 9:28. which upon his resurrection, GLORIFIED in his own Spirit.

this is all recorded in John's Gospel chapter 14. do any agree, or disagree?

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Arkycharlie

Super Member
Scripture,
Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

Luke 9:26 "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels."

Many scholars have said, these verses have not yet been fulfilled. we disagree. these verses has been fulfilled, and they were fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, by the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, coming in the manifestation of his "GIFTS", meaning it is the Lord Jesus who manifested in his Spiritual "Gifts" the Holy Spirit, which he is.

this RETURN, is the First of his TWO FOLD RETURN. A. in Spirit, (the Day of Pentecost, which fulfills all three verses above). and B. his Parousia, in Glorified flesh, per Hebrews 9:28. which upon his resurrection, GLORIFIED in his own Spirit.

this is all recorded in John's Gospel chapter 14. do any agree, or disagree?

PICJAG,
101G.
Are you disputing the pretribulation rapture assertion?
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings 101G,
do any agree, or disagree?
Yes, I have a different perspective. First consider the basic definition of the term “the Kingdom of God”. What is it, and when will it be established. The following are a few references, but many more could be added.
Daniel 2:44 (KJV): And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
The vision of Daniel 2 depicts four world empires and then Jesus as the stone will replace these kingdoms of men when he returns to establish the future Kingdom of God upon the earth.

Jesus was promised this Kingdom when Gabriel spoke to Mary, using similar language:
Luke 1:30–33 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Paul looked forward to the time when Jesus would return and establish this Kingdom:
2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Now looking at the first of your quotes and I suggest that the reference to the Kingdom of God is the same Kingdom of God as mentioned in the above references, when Jesus returns to replace the present kingdoms of men:
Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Immediately after this we have the vision of the Transfiguration of Jesus:
Matthew 17:1–9 (KJV): 1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

I suggest that the Transfiguration is a vision of what will happen at the return of Jesus. Peter confirms that the vision of the Transfiguration is connected with the return of Jesus:
2 Peter 1:16–18 (KJV): 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

101G

Well-known member
Are you disputing the pretribulation rapture assertion?
first thanks for the reply, second, there is no pretribulation rapture. third, this shows that the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit who returned in Spirit on the Day of pentecoast, and fulfilled those scriptures.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
Yes, I have a different perspective. First consider the basic definition of the term “the Kingdom of God”. What is it, and when will it be established. The following are a few references, but many more could be added.
Daniel 2:44 (KJV): And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
The vision of Daniel 2 depicts four world empires and then Jesus as the stone will replace these kingdoms of men when he returns to establish the future Kingdom of God upon the earth.

Jesus was promised this Kingdom when Gabriel spoke to Mary, using similar language:
Luke 1:30–33 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Paul looked forward to the time when Jesus would return and establish this Kingdom:
2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Now looking at the first of your quotes and I suggest that the reference to the Kingdom of God is the same Kingdom of God as mentioned in the above references, when Jesus returns to replace the present kingdoms of men:
First thanks for the reply, but is this not the KOG, the "Holy Spirit" in us?.

Immediately after this we have the vision of the Transfiguration of Jesus:
Matthew 17:1–9 (KJV): 1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

I suggest that the Transfiguration is a vision of what will happen at the return of Jesus. Peter confirms that the vision of the Transfiguration is connected with the return of Jesus:
2 Peter 1:16–18 (KJV): 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Kind regards
Trevor
I thank you for the reply, and the scriptures you posted, I will ask you to hear what the SCRIPTURES are saying, NOTE: it is the Son of MAN, (spirit), not the Son of God that returns, listen,

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

hold it, "I Will come to you?", YOU, here is audience relevance, meaning some of those whom he was speaking to, THEN, at that TIME, will be there alive when he returns. now one have a dilemma, either A. the Lord Jesus LIED, (God forbid), or B. he did return when some whom he was speaking to was alive. and here's the proof. lets keep on reading, next verse,

John 14:19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also."
John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (STOP RIGHT THERE. HOW CAN THE LORD JESUS BE IN THEM AS IN US? ANSWER "SPIRIT")
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." (THERE IT IS, HE WILL "MANIFEST" HIMSELF. BINGO). notice the Lord Jesus said, "manifest", not "appear", but manifest. well lets see what "manifestation" went on after his resurrection. answer,

Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place." Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting." Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." BINGO.
is not the speaking inf tongues one of the "GIFTS" of the "MANIFESTED" Spirit? lets see,

1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." (there is that manifestation Judas asked of)
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" (there is the Gifts of Tongues)
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

so clearly the "MANIFESTATION" of the Spirit is the Lord Jesus return. John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
and he did come... in "manifestation" of the Spiritual Gifts, and the Lord Jesus did not lie.... never.

so his return was in "Spirit", Manifestation.

this was foretold by Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"
Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit."

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Algernon

Active member
Scripture,
Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

Luke 9:26 "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels."

Many scholars have said, these verses have not yet been fulfilled. we disagree. these verses has been fulfilled, and they were fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, by the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, coming in the manifestation of his "GIFTS", meaning it is the Lord Jesus who manifested in his Spiritual "Gifts" the Holy Spirit, which he is.

this RETURN, is the First of his TWO FOLD RETURN. A. in Spirit, (the Day of Pentecost, which fulfills all three verses above). and B. his Parousia, in Glorified flesh, per Hebrews 9:28. which upon his resurrection, GLORIFIED in his own Spirit.

this is all recorded in John's Gospel chapter 14. do any agree, or disagree?

PICJAG,
101G.
Presumably you meant to quote Luke 9:27 rather than 26.

If you're interested in what Jesus had in mind in Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27, then those verses should be understood as a warning rather that prophecy. As such, there is no prophecy needing to be fulfilled per se.

To understand this, look at the passage from Matthew 16 in context.

Matthew 16
24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26For what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. 28“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

The "death" of which Jesus speaks in 16:28 is not a literal physical death, rather is that of those "whoever loses his life for My sake". As such it's a warning to those who fail to "lose his life for My sake".

As an aside, in the above note that Jesus says that "every person" will be repaid "according to his deeds". This is the criteria upon which ALL will be judged. The following sheds light on what Jesus has in mind there:
John 5
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
 
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101G

Well-known member
Presumably you meant to quote Luke 9:27 rather than 26.
Thank you, you are correct, my bad. thanks for the check-up.
The "death" of which Jesus speaks in 16:28 is not a literal physical death, rather is that of those "whoever loses his life for My sake". As such it's a warning to those who fail to "lose his life for My sake".
thanks for the reply, I read your post carefully, intresting. but we must disagree with that assessment, and here's why. the verses states, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

well lets start at the end of the scripture and work back.

A. "till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." well if they are dead, then they cannot "SEE" either " literal", or "spiritual" DEAD.

B. "There be some standing here", so that rule out "lose his life for My sake". STANDING signify Alive, physically, and not DEAD.

C. "the Son of man coming in his kingdom." the SON OF MAN is "spirit", which one cannot see with the NATURAL "EYE" so the only way to see the Son of Man is in "MANIFESTATION, just as was on the Day of Pentecost. and the KOG is the Holy Ghost, Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."

the Holy Ghost came on Pentecost, and not in observation, but in MANIFESTATION, which the Son of Man is , (spirit).

but I thank you for your assessment, but I must go with God.

thanks very much, and if you have maybe something else please post it.

again, thanks for the reply.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Algernon

Active member
Thank you, you are correct, my bad. thanks for the check-up.

thanks for the reply, I read your post carefully, intresting. but we must disagree with that assessment, and here's why. the verses states, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

well lets start at the end of the scripture and work back.

A. "till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." well if they are dead, then they cannot "SEE" either " literal", or "spiritual" DEAD.

B. "There be some standing here", so that rule out "lose his life for My sake". STANDING signify Alive, physically, and not DEAD.

C. "the Son of man coming in his kingdom." the SON OF MAN is "spirit", which one cannot see with the NATURAL "EYE" so the only way to see the Son of Man is in "MANIFESTATION, just as was on the Day of Pentecost. and the KOG is the Holy Ghost, Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."

the Holy Ghost came on Pentecost, and not in observation, but in MANIFESTATION, which the Son of Man is , (spirit).

but I thank you for your assessment, but I must go with God.

thanks very much, and if you have maybe something else please post it.

again, thanks for the reply.

PICJAG,
101G.
You seem to have missed the point which is that they are NOT physically dead. Only in a figurative sense. If you believe it physical, then you must also believe that when Jesus says "whoever loses his life for My sake", He is calling on people to physically end their life.

No thoughts on "good deeds"?
 

101G

Well-known member
You seem to have missed the point which is that they are NOT physically dead. Only in a figurative sense. If you believe it physical, then you must also believe that when Jesus says "whoever loses his life for My sake", He is calling on people to physically end their life.

No thoughts on "good deeds"?
thanks for your reply, but after reading your post, I must still rely on what I said, "Standing" is not in a figurative sense, it's a physical action, so your assessment is not figurative, so re-read my rebuttal post #9, once more.

and again thanks for the reply.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Algernon

Active member
thanks for your reply, but after reading your post, I must still rely on what I said, "Standing" is not in a figurative sense, it's a physical action, so your assessment is not figurative, so re-read my rebuttal post #9, once more.

and again thanks for the reply.

PICJAG,
101G.
I didn't say that "Standing" was figurative. The point was that ""whoever loses his life for My sake" IS figurative. They are NOT physically dead. As such, they are physically alive. Therefore, the foundation of your argument quoted below does not hold:
A. "till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." well if they are dead, then they cannot "SEE" either " literal", or "spiritual" DEAD.

B. "There be some standing here", so that rule out "lose his life for My sake". STANDING signify Alive, physically, and not DEAD.


Understand now?
 

101G

Well-known member
""whoever loses his life for My sake" IS figurative. They are NOT physically dead. As such, they are physically alive. Therefore, the foundation of your argument quoted below does not hold:
again cannot buy that, because the loss of life for his sake is a G3144 μάρτυς martus (mar'-tïs) n.

and he said that he wull raise him up, not figurative, but literally. so you have to try again.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Keraz

Active member
I didn't say that "Standing" was figurative. The point was that ""whoever loses his life for My sake" IS figurative. They are NOT physically dead. As such, they are physically alive. Therefore, the foundation of your argument quoted below does not hold:
A. "till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." well if they are dead, then they cannot "SEE" either " literal", or "spiritual" DEAD.

B. "There be some standing here", so that rule out "lose his life for My sake". STANDING signify Alive, physically, and not DEAD.


Understand now?
I agree.
They did die, or were martyred, but as their names are Written in the Book of Life, their death is just temporary. When they, along with everyone who has ever lived; stand before God on His Great White Throne after the Millennium, Revelation 20:1-15, their names will be found in the BoL and they will receive Eternal life.

Jesus is with Hs people spiritually now, as He said He would be, Matthew 28:20
 

101G

Well-known member
I agree.
They did die, or were martyred, but as their names are Written in the Book of Life, their death is just temporary. When they, along with everyone who has ever lived; stand before God on His Great White Throne after the Millennium, Revelation 20:1-15, their names will be found in the BoL and they will receive Eternal life.

Jesus is with Hs people spiritually now, as He said He would be, Matthew 28:20
thanks for the reply, but you still have a problem, listen, "SOME".... NOT ALL, but "SOME", STANDING, well what about the ones still STANDING/LIVING?.


PICJAG,
101G.
 

Algernon

Active member
again cannot buy that, because the loss of life for his sake is a G3144 μάρτυς martus (mar'-tïs) n.

and he said that he wull raise him up, not figurative, but literally. so you have to try again.

PICJAG,
101G.
"There be some standing here", so that rule out "lose his life for My sake". STANDING signify Alive, physically, and not DEAD.

Here you seem to be asserting that because "standing" signifies "Alive, physically". I don't disagree. What you seem to be missing is that "lose his life for My sake" is not speaking of a physical death. So they ARE physically alive. As such, how does it "rule out 'lose his life for My sake'"?

Similarly for your other foundational premise:
"till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." well if they are dead, then they cannot "SEE" either " literal", or "spiritual" DEAD.

Once again, they ARE physically alive.

Your argument does not hold water.
 

101G

Well-known member
Here you seem to be asserting that because "standing" signifies "Alive, physically". I don't disagree. What you seem to be missing is that "lose his life for My sake" is not speaking of a physical death. So they ARE physically alive. As such, how does it "rule out 'lose his life for My sake'"?
here it do, and let the bible tell us, listen, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

stood? yes, back from the DEAD, because he "STAND", or is resurrected, for he LIVES. BINGO.

NOW,
Similarly for your other foundational premise:
"till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." well if they are dead, then they cannot "SEE" either " literal", or "spiritual" DEAD.

Once again, they ARE physically alive.

Your argument does not hold water.
YES, listen, Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place."
Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting."
Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." (well I wonder how that knew that? because they .... "SAW" it?).
Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

well they clearly saw the KINGDOM "COME". how in "MANIFESTATION" .... BINGO.

remember what the Lord Jesus said, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." and he did, so the scriptures are fulfilled.

thanks for the reply, but you must try again.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
May I help ou fellas oout a bit,

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?" BINGO.

the key here is he, JESUS, THE SPIRIT, "MANIFESTED" HIMSELF TO THEM........ THAT'S THE key.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Algernon

Active member
here it do, and let the bible tell us, listen, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

stood? yes, back from the DEAD, because he "STAND", or is resurrected, for he LIVES. BINGO.

NOW,

YES, listen, Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place."
Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting."
Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." (well I wonder how that knew that? because they .... "SAW" it?).
Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

well they clearly saw the KINGDOM "COME". how in "MANIFESTATION" .... BINGO.

remember what the Lord Jesus said, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." and he did, so the scriptures are fulfilled.

thanks for the reply, but you must try again.

PICJAG,
101G.
None of that helps to save your ill-thought-out argument. In the passage below, Jesus is NOT referring to Himself where He says, "there are some of YOU who are STANDing here". This is made clear by the word YOU which necessarily refers to people other than Jesus. Those are the people who are "STANDing".

Matthew 16
24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26For what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. 28“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

It's as if you don't care what Jesus actually did and didn't say, though you likely call Jesus "Lord" and yourself a "follower of Jesus".

As a matter of curiosity, what is PICJAG?
 
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101G

Well-known member
None of that helps to save your ill-thought-out argument. In the passage below, Jesus is NOT referring to Himself where He says, "there are some of YOU who are STANDing here". This is made clear by the word YOU which necessarily refers to people other than Jesus. Those are the people who are "STANDing".

Matthew 16
24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26For what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. 28“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

It's as if you don't care what Jesus actually did and didn't say, though you likely call Jesus "Lord" and yourself a "follower of Jesus".

As a matter of curiosity, what is PICJAG?
My GOD are you reading my post with clarity? LISTEN, DEAD MEN DON'T "STAND" not upright, unless resurrected. see you have tried to make this confusing, but it's not. the Lord Jesus is CLEAR, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

some standing "HERE", present tense, "ALIVE" physically, shall not "TASTE DEATH", die .... WHEN Lord Jesus? ....... "till they , (those STANDING, ALIVE), see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

now there is no confusion there. some standing "here" will not taste death ..... until .... they see the son of MAN coming in his Kingdom.

now one cannot cloud or mess that up.

so you're reproved again. try again.... I just love this....


PICJAG,
101G.
 

Algernon

Active member
My GOD are you reading my post with clarity? LISTEN, DEAD MEN DON'T "STAND" not upright, unless resurrected. see you have tried to make this confusing, but it's not. the Lord Jesus is CLEAR, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

some standing "HERE", present tense, "ALIVE" physically, shall not "TASTE DEATH", die .... WHEN Lord Jesus? ....... "till they , (those STANDING, ALIVE), see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

now there is no confusion there. some standing "here" will not taste death ..... until .... they see the son of MAN coming in his Kingdom.

now one cannot cloud or mess that up.

so you're reproved again. try again.... I just love this....


PICJAG,
101G.
Listen. Go back through my posts. I've addressed this numerous times. Most recently in the following from post #16 where I wrote:
Here you seem to be asserting that because "standing" signifies "Alive, physically". I don't disagree. What you seem to be missing is that "lose his life for My sake" is not speaking of a physical death. So they ARE physically alive. As such, how does it "rule out 'lose his life for My sake'"?

What part of the above don't you understand?

Fascinating how you keep getting the wrong end of the stick, and try to put the blame on me. You're the one who doesn't understand what's being said.
 
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