The Lord Jesus "TWO FOLD" Return

Timtofly

Member
ERROR, not even the Lord Jesus went to Paradise that day. he went and preached unto the spirits that was in prison, 1 Peter 3:19 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" ... why? 1 Peter 4:6 "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

so even the Lord Jesus himself was in Paradise that day, but the revelation is right in the scripture before, listen, Luke 23:42 "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom."

there it is... "REMEMBER", for God has a book of REMEMBERANCE. scripture, Malachi 3:16 "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name." Malachi 3:17 "And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him." (BINGO) Malachi 3:18 "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."

see, he as well as Captian captain Cornelius, a gentile is "REMEMBERED", listen, Acts 10:4 "And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God."

see that term "memorial", it's the Greek word, G3422 μνημόσυνον mnemosunon (mnee-mo-sï '-non) n.
a reminder (memorandum), i.e. record.
[from G3421]
KJV: memorial

and in Malachi 3:16, "remembrance" is the Hebrew word, H2146 זִכרוֹן zikrown (zik-rone') n-m.
a memento (or memorable thing, day or writing).
[from H2142]
KJV: memorial, record.
Root(s): H2142

BINGO, there you have it, the thief on the cross, "THAT" DAY is REMEMBERED, as you and I will be when the Lord return.... don't worry you want be left behind, for it is "WRITTEN".... :) aint god good.

PICJAG, 101g.
The Lord God was in Paradise that day. The Spirit was in and out of Abraham's bosom and preached less than a split second. The Bodies released from Abraham's bosom were already walking around, before the thief died. Matthew 27. You are only using the question the thief learned in "Sabbath School". God told the thief where the thief was going that day. It was God's will for the thief. Not any theology taught from reading the OT. The thief was the exception to the theology taught.

Lazarus being raised again from the dead was the exception of what humans teach as theology. No one accepts that those who heard the voice of Jesus could bodily come forth even before the body of Jesus came forth, and they would ascend with Christ at the Time God wills, not when humans think God should do things. Not every thing God does is written for all to digest. Daniel had to seal up some prophecy he was given. John in Revelation could not write and give to the church all that he was witness to. The disciples were to tell no one about Jesus until the Holy Spirit would guide them to recount the experiences they had with Christ. It was not that God was keeping secrets, but that revelation is done according to God's will, and not human made up theology that makes sense to human understanding.
 

101G

Well-known member
The Lord God was in Paradise that day. The Spirit was in and out of Abraham's bosom and preached less than a split second. The Bodies released from Abraham's bosom were already walking around, before the thief died. Matthew 27. You are only using the question the thief learned in "Sabbath School". God told the thief where the thief was going that day. It was God's will for the thief. Not any theology taught from reading the OT. The thief was the exception to the theology taught.
apperance is not a resurrection, please get it RIGHT, listen, Matthew 27:52 "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose," Matthew 27:53 "And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

A. AROSE is not "resurrected",

B. "appeared", HOW? lets see, Matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him." well did they come out of their graves after our Lord resurrection? no, but they "APPEARED" .... do you understand NOW?

Lazarus being raised again from the dead was the exception of what humans teach as theology.
Lazarus was "RESTORED" not resurrected, because his flesh had not yet completely decomposed, or saw corruption, only stinketh. so he was RESTORED not RESURRECTED. those as spoken of here in the aboved statement, was both DEAD, and decomposed, so it was in "Apperance only", as was with Mose and Elijah on the Mountian top. understand now. alway remember our Lord is the FIRST FRUIT of the Resurrection, in which the great harvest is to come. even all the OT saints are in wait/sleep, as those of the NT who has died, must wait for out Lord who will desend from heaven and shout with the voice of the arch angel and we will be awarded our new bodies, our RESURRECTED bodies that God will give us.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Timtofly

Member
apperance is not a resurrection, please get it RIGHT, listen, Matthew 27:52 "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose," Matthew 27:53 "And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

A. AROSE is not "resurrected",

B. "appeared", HOW? lets see, Matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him." well did they come out of their graves after our Lord resurrection? no, but they "APPEARED" .... do you understand NOW?


Lazarus was "RESTORED" not resurrected, because his flesh had not yet completely decomposed, or saw corruption, only stinketh. so he was RESTORED not RESURRECTED. those as spoken of here in the aboved statement, was both DEAD, and decomposed, so it was in "Apperance only", as was with Mose and Elijah on the Mountian top. understand now. alway remember our Lord is the FIRST FRUIT of the Resurrection, in which the great harvest is to come. even all the OT saints are in wait/sleep, as those of the NT who has died, must wait for out Lord who will desend from heaven and shout with the voice of the arch angel and we will be awarded our new bodies, our RESURRECTED bodies that God will give us.

PICJAG, 101G.
Moses and Elijah were never in the grave. Does this post not appear, or just imagination between two minds? A forum is still real and has a body, in a computer, somewhere. Appearance has everything to do with being physically alive.

Jude 1:9

"When Mikha’el, one of the ruling angels, took issue with the Adversary, arguing over the body of Moshe, he did not dare bring against him an insulting charge, but said, “May Adonai rebuke you.”

Satan did not get the body of Moses in death. Why would he get Moses' soul? They did not just appear, they were there on the Mount. You can argue with Lazarus his condition, and I am sure he would be glad to show you his body, he recieved that day.

Paul disagrees with your assertion: 2 Corinthians 5.

"We know that when the tent which houses us here on earth is torn down, we have a permanent building from God, a building not made by human hands, to house us in heaven. For in this tent, our earthly body, we groan with desire to have around us the home from heaven that will be ours. With this around us we will not be found naked. Yes, while we are in this body, we groan with the sense of being oppressed: it is not so much that we want to take something off, but rather to put something on over it; so that what must die may be swallowed up by the Life. Moreover, it is God who has prepared us for this very thing, and as a pledge he has given us his Spirit."

"So we are always confident — we know that so long as we are at home in the body, we are away from our home with the Lord; for we live by trust, not by what we see. We are confident, then, and would much prefer to leave our home in the body and come to our home with the Lord."

Where does Paul claim having to wait more than one second for those in Christ to go from one body to the one in Paradise? "Sleep" is the symbolic term compared to physical living flesh. It is not a literal term stating a literal action.

Even calling these bodies "alive" is symbolic and not literal. We use the alledged term dead in our sins. The literal fact is we are dead in corruptible flesh. In God’s terms we are the dead that need to be resurrected. Those in Christ in Paradise do not need resurrection. They have passed from death into life. Paul claims that without that truth, we would be most miserable, having nothing to look forward to but Death itself. Paul would never have written 2 Corinthians 5, according to your theology. He would have specifically stated we would have to wait an indefinite period of time, before the permanent body would be available. There is no holding cell preventing Paradise to be realized for all those souls in Christ. Flesh and blood is referring to Adam's current state. That cannot enter. That is why this tent is left to return to dust. The change is getting that permanent incorruptible body made by God. The change happens at physical death. "We shall not all die, but all are changed who have." Paul was not planning on physically dying, but did, and we are still dying and being changed almost 2000 years later. Only those alive at the Second Coming need to be resurrected from dead corruptible bodies, and changed in mid-air. Us living need resurrection more than those in Paradise. The permanent incorruptible body does not need to be resurrected. It is not dead, but alive in Christ just like Christ is alive in Paradise.
 

101G

Well-known member
Moses and Elijah were never in the grave
well lets see what God said, Deuteronomy 34:5 "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD." Deuteronomy 34:6 "And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day."

the Moses "never in the grave lie is rebuked by God himself".

Now Elijah. he was not, and I say again that Elijah was not taken unto the THIRD HEAVEN, only lifted up off the surface of the earth, and TRANSPORTED to another place on the earth. 2 Kings 2:11 "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." heaven, here is the Hebrew word,
H8064 שָׁמַיִם shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim) n-m.
שָׁמֶה shameh (shaw-meh') [unused singular]
1. the sky (as aloft).
2. (the dual form) perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve.
[from an unused root meaning to be lofty]
KJV: air, X astrologer, heaven(-s).

as was with Philip in the NT, Acts 8:39 "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing." Acts 8:40 "But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea."

this is what happen to Elijah in the OT.

now the Revelation. if Elijah was Transported into the third heaven, then our Lord Jesus would not be the "FIRST FRUIT" from the DEAD. and if one say, well God changed his body, if so then the Lord Jesus is not the NEW MAN. it's just that Plain and simple.

so Moses, Elijah, and Enoch all died. supportive scripture, Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
and this included Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

now if Enoch was translated why did he DIE. read Hebrews chapter 11 again.

so this should put to rest the ERROR of anyone going to nheaven before the Lord Jesus the Christ.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Timtofly

Member
well lets see what God said, Deuteronomy 34:5 "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD." Deuteronomy 34:6 "And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day."

the Moses "never in the grave lie is rebuked by God himself".

Now Elijah. he was not, and I say again that Elijah was not taken unto the THIRD HEAVEN, only lifted up off the surface of the earth, and TRANSPORTED to another place on the earth. 2 Kings 2:11 "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." heaven, here is the Hebrew word,
H8064 שָׁמַיִם shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim) n-m.
שָׁמֶה shameh (shaw-meh') [unused singular]
1. the sky (as aloft).
2. (the dual form) perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve.
[from an unused root meaning to be lofty]
KJV: air, X astrologer, heaven(-s).

as was with Philip in the NT, Acts 8:39 "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing." Acts 8:40 "But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea."

this is what happen to Elijah in the OT.

now the Revelation. if Elijah was Transported into the third heaven, then our Lord Jesus would not be the "FIRST FRUIT" from the DEAD. and if one say, well God changed his body, if so then the Lord Jesus is not the NEW MAN. it's just that Plain and simple.

so Moses, Elijah, and Enoch all died. supportive scripture, Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
and this included Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

now if Enoch was translated why did he DIE. read Hebrews chapter 11 again.

so this should put to rest the ERROR of anyone going to nheaven before the Lord Jesus the Christ.

PICJAG, 101G.
The Lord Jesus Christ went to eternity and created the heavens and earth. The Lord Jesus Christ planted the Garden and was the first to enter. He was the firstfruit before Adam was named. John 14.

Moses wrote that he was going to die, so they would not come looking for him. Enoch was Elijah and came to earth twice. The last time on the Mount of Transfiguration. Moses went from the wilderness to the Mount of Transfiguration. You may be correct that they did not spend time in Paradise, but Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel were in the Garden prior to the physical birth and death of Jesus Christ, but the Lord Jesus Christ left in the first century and created all things that we now call reality.

The Cross opened up Paradise, and no Scripture is going to contradict that fact. The thief was with the Lord that day, and will be forever with the Lord along with all the OT people of Faith found in Hebrews 11. Paradise is that city in Heaven.

Three sets of people enter Paradise in order from the Cross. Those in Hebrews 11 on resurrection sunday. Those alive at the Second Coming. And the New Jerusalem will be opened after the 1000 year reign of Christ. All on earth will be able to come and go into the city in the NHNE.
 

101G

Well-known member
The Lord Jesus Christ went to eternity and created the heavens and earth. The Lord Jesus Christ planted the Garden and was the first to enter. He was the firstfruit before Adam was named. John 14.

Moses wrote that he was going to die, so they would not come looking for him. Enoch was Elijah and came to earth twice. The last time on the Mount of Transfiguration. Moses went from the wilderness to the Mount of Transfiguration. You may be correct that they did not spend time in Paradise, but Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel were in the Garden prior to the physical birth and death of Jesus Christ, but the Lord Jesus Christ left in the first century and created all things that we now call reality.

The Cross opened up Paradise, and no Scripture is going to contradict that fact. The thief was with the Lord that day, and will be forever with the Lord along with all the OT people of Faith found in Hebrews 11. Paradise is that city in Heaven.

Three sets of people enter Paradise in order from the Cross. Those in Hebrews 11 on resurrection sunday. Those alive at the Second Coming. And the New Jerusalem will be opened after the 1000 year reign of Christ. All on earth will be able to come and go into the city in the NHNE.
first thanks for your reply. lets take this one point at a time, if it's alright with you.

#1. "The Lord Jesus Christ went to eternity and created the heavens and earth".

Now what are you meaning and referring to?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Timtofly

Member
first thanks for your reply. lets take this one point at a time, if it's alright with you.

#1. "The Lord Jesus Christ went to eternity and created the heavens and earth".

Now what are you meaning and referring to?

PICJAG, 101G.
God exists outside of creation. Jesus claimed to go and prepare a place. Paradise already existed as the Garden. Eternity is outside of creation. There is no such thing as time travel, however God is not bound by time. Every single point in time is an equal point to God. What is linear to us, is just one single creation to God. Thus the week of the Cross happened in the physical at one point. To God it happened at the same time in eternity as creation itself. Jesus told the disciples they already knew about that place.
 

101G

Well-known member
God exists outside of creation. Jesus claimed to go and prepare a place. Paradise already existed as the Garden. Eternity is outside of creation. There is no such thing as time travel, however God is not bound by time. Every single point in time is an equal point to God. What is linear to us, is just one single creation to God. Thus the week of the Cross happened in the physical at one point. To God it happened at the same time in eternity as creation itself. Jesus told the disciples they already knew about that place.
first thanks for the reply, second, I'm not sure where you're going with this?

A. I know that God exists outside of creation, but his going away to prepare a place for us is not nessary outside of Eternity. now what do time travel has to do with anything concering us?

B. as for eternity? the Lord Jesus is eternity, and WE are in him.

so I'm not sure what you was speaking on there, so lets move on to,
Moses wrote that he was going to die, so they would not come looking for him. Enoch was Elijah and came to earth twice.
ERROR, "ENOCH" died, as well as Elijah, so he could not be him. listen, if you read Hebrews chapter 11, it list all the Faithful saint... who DIED, including Enoch. scripture, Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
here, the term TRANSLATED simply means to move or transport. meaning that Enoch was moved from one part of the planet to another to eacape death. not that he didn't die, because if we contuine to read Hebrews chapter 11, we see that he DIED a natural death, listen, Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

these all that "DIED", .... these, including Enoch, who was mention before this scripture. yes, all died. please understand, no natural man has entered heaven before the Lord Jesus the Christ, who died and rose and entered heave, who is the "FIRST FRUIT". so no one has went to heaven before the Christ, who is the Lord Jesus.

PICJAG. 101G.
 
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