The Love for God

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
God's love toward us is necessary for our salvation (something God does, HE loves).
Our love for God is not necessary for salvation.

That's a very telling revelation, IMO--and possibly the mindset of faith alone theology. The Savior's testimony takes a different course:

Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

So--is the love of God necessary for eternal life to occur in one?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
That's a very telling revelation, IMO--and possibly the mindset of faith alone theology. The Savior's testimony takes a different course:

Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

So--is the love of God necessary for eternal life to occur in one?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
If one loves God you will receive His Love as your own disposition. It is who we become like Him and in His same image by His same Spirit be in you who was in Christ jesus, which simply is is Love.

And salvation is God manifest in you, He in you and you in Him as one Jpohn 17 and walk as He walks in His same light. lowing.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
God's love toward us is necessary for our salvation (something God does, HE loves).
Our love for God is not necessary for salvation.

Please note my response to dberrie was in response to his QUESTION.
Since we are "dead in trespasses and sins", there is nothing we CAN offer up for salvation.

But please not my response was about "OUR love for GOD".

That's a very telling revelation, IMO--and possibly the mindset of faith alone theology. The Savior's testimony takes a different course:


Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Yes, this is a commandment (as I already responded to dberrie in a separate thread).
Yes, we are commanded to love God (as I already responded to dberrie in a separate thread).

But this does NOT say it is "necessary for salvation".

As I have pointed out to dberrie about a THOUSAND times already, and he refuses to EVER address, salvation is "not by works" (such as, "you have to love God, first"):

Eph. 2:8 ... And this is not your own doing ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Tim. 1:9 who saved us ... not because of our works
Tit. 3:5 he saved us, not because of works ...
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;



So--is the love of God necessary for eternal life to occur in one?

I have no idea what he is asking me this irrelevant and very insulting question.

He's responding to my statement about "OUR love for GOD".
But then he asks me if GOD's love for US is necessary (which it is).

Either the poster isn't reading very carefully, and he doesn't understand that the premise of his question is the exact OPPOSITE of what I actually said, or else the poster is intentionally trying to misrepresent me.

You be the judge.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Please note my response to dberrie was in response to his QUESTION.
Since we are "dead in trespasses and sins", there is nothing we CAN offer up for salvation.

But please not my response was about "OUR love for GOD".

Yes, this is a commandment (as I already responded to dberrie in a separate thread).
Yes, we are commanded to love God (as I already responded to dberrie in a separate thread).

But this does NOT say it is "necessary for salvation".

Again--denying loving God is necessary for salvation to occur within us--that is a very strange doctrine, considering the testimony of Christ:

Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

For example:

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Can a liar enter into the kingdom of God?

And since keeping the commandments is connected to the love for God--that seems to connect those points together.

Now--about the " I know him, and keepeth not his commandments,"...

John 17:3---King James Version

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Again--denying loving God is necessary for salvation to occur within us--that is a very strange doctrine, considering the testimony of Christ:

Yes, I am well aware that Mormons find the Bible to be "very strange doctrine".


Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I'm not sure why you're posting this.
This doesn't say, "You must first love God before you're saved".

For example:

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I'm not sure why you're posting this.
This doesn't say, "You must first love God before you're saved".

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I'm not sure why you're posting this.
This doesn't say, "You must first love God before you're saved".

Can a liar enter into the kingdom of God?

The answer is pretty obvious, and completely irrelevant to what we're discussing.

John 17:3---King James Version
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast
sent.

Exactly!

One who is (first) saved WILL "know" God and "love" God.

What exactly is the difficulty you're not comprehending?
 

John t

Active member
dberrie2020 said:
Again--denying loving God is necessary for salvation to occur within us--that is a very strange doctrine, considering the testimony of Christ


Unfortunately, (and I really mean it) this is precisely WHY you shall never enter into the dwelling place of God, Heaven as things now seem to be.

You LDS guys and gals uniformly put the work of humankind as a precondition for salvation. Y'all interpolate that from passages that say the opposite. Y'all twerk Scripture to make it seem that God has left us on our own, and then he "kicks in" to do what none of us can do to get us "over the hump and into heaven. Your LDS motto "Do your best, and let god do the rest" is really an anathema.

The reality is that because we are all sinners, there is absolutely NOTHING that any human can do to please a just, pure, righteous and holy God. It is first God Who works within us to call us unto Him. THEN we can do work pleasing unto God.

But this is not new; many times we Christians explained it to you very patiently. You in particular have consistently rejected that message. Therefore, instead of rejecting our message outright, I ask you to join me in what is to your belief, a hypothetical.

If it were true that dberrie needed to do nothing, and that his going into heaven was fully guaranteed by the absolute unconditional love of God towards him, what (if anything) would you change?

No, it is not a trick question, so I request a straight forward answer of that "hypothetical"
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Yes, I am well aware that Mormons find the Bible to be "very strange doctrine".




I'm not sure why you're posting this.
This doesn't say, "You must first love God before you're saved".



I'm not sure why you're posting this.
This doesn't say, "You must first love God before you're saved".



I'm not sure why you're posting this.
This doesn't say, "You must first love God before you're saved".



The answer is pretty obvious, and completely irrelevant to what we're discussing.



Exactly!

One who is (first) saved WILL "know" God and "love" God.

What exactly is the difficulty you're not comprehending?
You harp on Mormons when in fact you are exactly like them, only different laws to govern your beliefs.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Yes, I am well aware that Mormons find the Bible to be "very strange doctrine".

What is strange is the testimony of the Biblical text verses faith alone theology:

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So--why do the faith alone adherents preach keeping the commandments has nothing to do with inheriting eternal life?

I'm not sure why you're posting this.
This doesn't say, "You must first love God before you're saved".

Are you claiming one receives of God's grace unto life--independent of loving God?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exactly!

One who is (first) saved WILL "know" God and "love" God.

No liar will be saved in the Kingdom of God:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Unfortunately, (and I really mean it) this is precisely WHY you shall never enter into the dwelling place of God, Heaven as things now seem to be.

You LDS guys and gals uniformly put the work of humankind as a precondition for salvation.

John--could you explain how one excludes all works in obtaining salvation--when the Savior testifies all men will be judged according to their own works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
That's a very telling revelation, IMO--and possibly the mindset of faith alone theology. The Savior's testimony takes a different course:

Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

So--is the love of God necessary for eternal life to occur in one?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Are you aware there is an "Order of Salvation"
a theological order (not chronological) of events that must occur for salvation?

As in "We love him, because He first loved us."
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
John--could you explain how one excludes all works in obtaining salvation--when the Savior testifies all men will be judged according to their own works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Because some one is Regenerated, has Faith, and Repented; has been Justified and has been Adopted.
They are indwelt by the Holy Spirit: they are in Christ: Christ is in them: the new nature is here their old nature has passed away
PRIOR TO PERFORMING ANY GOOD WORKS

dberrie; is anyone saved in this life?
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
Are you aware there is an "Order of Salvation"
a theological order (not chronological) of events that must occur for salvation?

As in "We love him, because He first loved us."

And how does that preclude the love of God being necessary for salvation to occur?

Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Because some one is Regenerated, has Faith, and Repented; has been Justified and has been Adopted.
They are indwelt by the Holy Spirit: they are in Christ: Christ is in them: the new nature is here their old nature has passed away
PRIOR TO PERFORMING ANY GOOD WORKS

If indeed it is prior to performing any good works--then how does one fit that claim--- with the testimony of the Savior?

Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Unfortunately, (and I really mean it) this is precisely WHY you shall never enter into the dwelling place of God, Heaven as things now seem to be.

You LDS guys and gals uniformly put the work of humankind as a precondition for salvation. Y'all interpolate that from passages that say the opposite. Y'all twerk Scripture to make it seem that God has left us on our own, and then he "kicks in" to do what none of us can do to get us "over the hump and into heaven. Your LDS motto "Do your best, and let god do the rest" is really an anathema.

The reality is that because we are all sinners, there is absolutely NOTHING that any human can do to please a just, pure, righteous and holy God. It is first God Who works within us to call us unto Him. THEN we can do work pleasing unto God.

Before you can have new life in Christ, you must first die with Christ. Resurrection life in Christ does not precede dying with Christ.

But this is not new; many times we Christians explained it to you very patiently. You in particular have consistently rejected that message. Therefore, instead of rejecting our message outright, I ask you to join me in what is to your belief, a hypothetical.

If it were true that dberrie needed to do nothing, and that his going into heaven was fully guaranteed by the absolute unconditional love of God towards him, what (if anything) would you change?

No, it is not a trick question, so I request a straight forward answer of that "hypothetical"
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
dberrie; is anyone saved in this life?

Of course--but not to the exclusion of obedience to Jesus Christ:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
And how does that preclude the love of God being necessary for salvation to occur?

Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
BECAUSE the unregenerate (those not born again) do not / CANNOT love God:
Once they are born again: THEN then will love God

What is the Mormon's understandings of Ordo Salutis?

 

1Thess521

Well-known member
And how does that preclude the love of God being necessary for salvation to occur?

Mark 12:30-31---King James Version
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
you have been told all of this before:

your turn: when is someone saved?
after the first work? after 100?

is someone saved the moment they are born again/regenerated?
are the justified (those declared righteous by God) saved?
 
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John t

Active member
Before you can have new life in Christ, you must first die with Christ. Resurrection life in Christ does not precede dying with Christ.
Because neither you, nor anyone else can prove that statement by taking Scripture in its context, it is therefore, by definition a heresy.
 

John t

Active member
It is STATED in your Bible that new life in Christ comes after dying with Christ.

For the second time, I invite you to prove it by stating the entire verse in its context, with references, of course.

It is one thing to "claim something is true" but it is quite another thing to demonstrate that it exists. You haven't.
 
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