the message of the cross of Jesus.

SteveB

Well-known member
The message is really simple.

You've sinned against a Holy, and Righteous God.
The price for your sin is death. You've died spiritually, and will die physically, and at that point, be cut off from God, for all eternity.

God loves you, and doesn't want you to be cut off from him for all eternity. Because of this, he has agreed with Jesus, and so he came, lived a life that is one hundred percent pleasing and honorable with God.
Once this was achieved, at the right time, Jesus died for your sin. For the sin of all humanity.
To demonstrate that God was pleased with the death of Jesus, that it satisfied his justice due sin, he raised Jesus from the dead.

He's displayed this for all the human race to hear, so that whosoever will place their trust in Jesus, they may be made 100% right with God, and adopted as sons or daughters of God. God will provide the down payment of his Spirit, who will reside in us, making us spiritually alive, and once we die, we will pass from this life to eternity, where we will ever be with God, never to be separated from him again.
 

Ficciones

Active member
The message is really simple.

You've sinned against a Holy, and Righteous God.
The price for your sin is death. You've died spiritually, and will die physically, and at that point, be cut off from God, for all eternity.

God loves you, and doesn't want you to be cut off from him for all eternity. Because of this, he has agreed with Jesus, and so he came, lived a life that is one hundred percent pleasing and honorable with God.
Once this was achieved, at the right time, Jesus died for your sin. For the sin of all humanity.
To demonstrate that God was pleased with the death of Jesus, that it satisfied his justice due sin, he raised Jesus from the dead.

He's displayed this for all the human race to hear, so that whosoever will place their trust in Jesus, they may be made 100% right with God, and adopted as sons or daughters of God. God will provide the down payment of his Spirit, who will reside in us, making us spiritually alive, and once we die, we will pass from this life to eternity, where we will ever be with God, never to be separated from him again.

I'm fascinated that this is all expressed in the language of prices, percentages and down payments. Even the soul doesn't escape commoditization.
 

Nouveau

Active member
The message is really simple.

You've sinned against a Holy, and Righteous God.
The price for your sin is death. You've died spiritually, and will die physically, and at that point, be cut off from God, for all eternity.

God loves you, and doesn't want you to be cut off from him for all eternity. Because of this, he has agreed with Jesus, and so he came, lived a life that is one hundred percent pleasing and honorable with God.
Once this was achieved, at the right time, Jesus died for your sin. For the sin of all humanity.
To demonstrate that God was pleased with the death of Jesus, that it satisfied his justice due sin, he raised Jesus from the dead.

He's displayed this for all the human race to hear, so that whosoever will place their trust in Jesus, they may be made 100% right with God, and adopted as sons or daughters of God. God will provide the down payment of his Spirit, who will reside in us, making us spiritually alive, and once we die, we will pass from this life to eternity, where we will ever be with God, never to be separated from him again.
That is indeed your belief.

Belief does not a fact, or truth make.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I'm fascinated that this is all expressed in the language of prices, percentages and down payments. Even the soul doesn't escape commoditization.
Considering that God stated in Genesis 1:26-27 that he created us in his own likeness and image, and we later learned that God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever would believe him will not perish but will have everlasting life, I'd say that it's pretty clear that the human being possesses infinite value and worth to God....

That God himself would be willing to experience death so we wouldn't have to, that sounds far beyond any concept of commoditization to me.

Who else have you ever heard being willing to experience such agony, and humiliation as Jesus has? Just to keep you out of hell.
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
That is indeed your belief.

Belief does not a fact, or truth make.
Oh, it's been true for millennia.

Your lack of belief only excludes you from experiencing it for yourself.

Rom 3:3 WEB For what if some were without faith? Will their lack of faith nullify the faithfulness of God?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
That is indeed your belief. Belief does not a fact, or truth make.


A recipe for confirmation bias: Believe first! Then you can experience it to be true!
It's your eternity.

Not believing is actually the recipe for confirmation bias.
As long as you don't believe, you'll be able to ignore it.... until it's too late to do anything about it.
Then you're stuck with your unbelief for eternity.

A prison cell from which there is no escape. It's extremely hot, miserable, the voices of your past constantly reminding you of everything you did, and the lingering regret living with the awareness that you could have said yes, but instead said no.

Then the day of judgment due sin comes, and you'll find yourself standing before God.

Rev 20:11-15 WEB 11 I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them. 12 I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

And to think..... you can still change your direction in life, and be freed from your sin.
 

Ficciones

Active member
he gave his only begotten son

You have to admit that it sounds rather squalid when you speak of it as a "down payment".

But this tendency to speak of spiritual matters in financial terms is quite common, according to anthropologist David Graeber:

In Sanskrit, Hebrew, Aramaic, ‘debt,’ ‘guilt,’ and ‘sin’ are actually the same word. Much of the language of the great religious movements – reckoning, redemption, karmic accounting and the like – are drawn from the language of ancient finance. But that language is always found wanting and inadequate and twisted around into something completely different. It’s as if the great prophets and religious teachers had no choice but to start with that kind of language because it’s the language that existed at the time, but they only adopted it so as to turn it into its opposite: as a way of saying debts are not sacred, but forgiveness of debt, or the ability to wipe out debt, or to realize that debts aren’t real – these are the acts that are truly sacred.
 

J regia

Member
I'm fascinated that this is all expressed in the language of prices, percentages and down payments. Even the soul doesn't escape commoditization.
That's because preacher men selling after-death salvation with money-back guarantees can make payments on their private jets and pay for their fancy ladies and fancy houses.
 

J regia

Member
The message is really simple.

You've sinned against a Holy, and Righteous God.
The price for your sin is death. You've died spiritually, and will die physically, and at that point, be cut off from God, for all eternity.

God loves you, and doesn't want you to be cut off from him for all eternity. Because of this, he has agreed with Jesus, and so he came, lived a life that is one hundred percent pleasing and honorable with God.
Once this was achieved, at the right time, Jesus died for your sin. For the sin of all humanity.
To demonstrate that God was pleased with the death of Jesus, that it satisfied his justice due sin, he raised Jesus from the dead.

He's displayed this for all the human race to hear, so that whosoever will place their trust in Jesus, they may be made 100% right with God, and adopted as sons or daughters of God. God will provide the down payment of his Spirit, who will reside in us, making us spiritually alive, and once we die, we will pass from this life to eternity, where we will ever be with God, never to be separated from him again.
And that's why Abraham & Moses & Abraham & David etc never went to heaven (John 3:16) since they didn't believe in Jesus and didn't repent and didn't tithe to preacher men selling after-death salvation, even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7).
 

J regia

Member
Considering that God stated in Genesis 1:26-27 that he created us in his own likeness and image, and we later learned that God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever would believe him will not perish but will have everlasting life, I'd say that it's pretty clear that the human being possesses infinite value and worth to God....

That God himself would be willing to experience death so we wouldn't have to, that sounds far beyond any concept of commoditization to me.

Who else have you ever heard being willing to experience such agony, and humiliation as Jesus has? Just to keep you out of hell.
But Jesus didn't claim to be a god, nor to be without sin (Mark 10:18). And afterall Jesus unsuccessfully asked for help from his god when he was executed for sedition by the Romans and mocked as the false "King of the Jews", which is hardly a god-like trait (Matt 27:46).
And where did Jesus say that he wanted to be executed by the Romans for sedition in order to pay for your crime.
 

Mr Laurier

Active member
The message is really simple.

You've sinned against a Holy, and Righteous God.
The price for your sin is death. You've died spiritually, and will die physically, and at that point, be cut off from God, for all eternity.

God loves you, and doesn't want you to be cut off from him for all eternity. Because of this, he has agreed with Jesus, and so he came, lived a life that is one hundred percent pleasing and honorable with God.
Once this was achieved, at the right time, Jesus died for your sin. For the sin of all humanity.
To demonstrate that God was pleased with the death of Jesus, that it satisfied his justice due sin, he raised Jesus from the dead.

He's displayed this for all the human race to hear, so that whosoever will place their trust in Jesus, they may be made 100% right with God, and adopted as sons or daughters of God. God will provide the down payment of his Spirit, who will reside in us, making us spiritually alive, and once we die, we will pass from this life to eternity, where we will ever be with God, never to be separated from him again.
So essentially, it is a lie, resting on a lie, resting on yet another lie. Got it.
It's lies all the way down
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You have to admit that it sounds rather squalid when you speak of it as a "down payment".
Jesus isn't the down payment.
But consider this.... God's Son gave his life so you would not have to spend your eternity in the lake of fire, in absolute agony, misery, without any hope of escape.


But this tendency to speak of spiritual matters in financial terms is quite common, according to anthropologist David Graeber:

So?
I see he died several weeks ago.

It seems to me that you simply don't grasp the nature of reality.

6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ​

(Gen. 3:1–19 )

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

Temujin

Active member
The Dollar, the Coin and the Holy Margin
Why do you think that Christianity has been popular with ruling elites throughout the ages? It is all a scam, from selling pardons and holy relics through tithes to TV evangelism. Just a way of removing money from the gullible. Even the reactions against this, such as Luther, end up soiled by the same corruption in time.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
And that's why Abraham & Moses & Abraham & David etc never went to heaven (John 3:16) since they didn't believe in Jesus and didn't repent and didn't tithe to preacher men selling after-death salvation, even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7).
Isn't it nice to believe you know so much, with so little information?

Rather curious that you base your beliefs on just one out of 31,102 verses.
Why would you do this to yourself?

10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
 
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