The Mosaic Law and Keeping the Commandments

Bonnie

Super Member
As long as you keep DODGING and RUNNING AWAY from the Bible, I will continue to put your feet to the fire:

Rom. 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Gal. 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
And those who are in Christ Jesus our Lord ARE led by the Spirit. And how is the Law fulfilled in us? Paul tells us here in Romans 8:

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

Christ's perfect keeping of the Law is credited to us by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. So, HIS righteousness becomes OURS, for we have none of our own to boast about!
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
And those who are in Christ Jesus our Lord ARE led by the Spirit. And how is the Law fulfilled in us? Paul tells us here in Romans 8:

Christ's perfect keeping of the Law is credited to us by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. So, HIS righteousness becomes OURS, for we have none of our own to boast about!
I have a couple of questions for this retort:

1) How does Jesus fulfilling the Law--cover up or cancel out Jesus connecting keeping the commandments with eternal life?

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


2) If Jesus' righteousness is imputed to us--then why are all men judged according to their own works--after death--and that for life or damnation?


John 5:28-29----King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Peter 1:16-17---King James Version (KJV)

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Romans 2:5-11----King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Did you miss Romans 3:31,

Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Romans 8:4-8,

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

and Romans 13:8-10

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[fn] “You shall not covet,”[fn] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[fn] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


I'm especially fond of verses 4-5 in Rom 8.

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

I.e., it's ONLY possible to fulfill God's Law, by walking in the Spirit, which means we have to focus our thinking on spiritual things.

Seems to me that it'd be a good idea to spend more time studying this issue.
Hi Steve:

I agree.

Abraham had the commandments:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

As Paul stated--Abraham lived under the gospel:

Galatians 3:8---King James Version
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

And--that the Mosaic Law was added to the gospel because of disobedience:

Galatians 3:19---King James Version
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


That is the reason why--when the Mosaic Law was fulfilled--the commandments remained--as part of the gospel--which is where it was before the Law was added, in Abraham.(who was 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law)

So--can we find Paul separating out the rituals of the Mosaic Law--from keeping the commandments?
I think so:

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Hi Steve:

I agree.

Abraham had the commandments:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

As Paul stated--Abraham lived under the gospel:

Galatians 3:8---King James Version
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

And--that the Mosaic Law was added to the gospel because of disobedience:

Galatians 3:19---King James Version
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


That is the reason why--when the Mosaic Law was fulfilled--the commandments remained--as part of the gospel--which is where it was before the Law was added, in Abraham.(who was 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law)

So--can we find Paul separating out the rituals of the Mosaic Law--from keeping the commandments?
I think so:

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
I think you overlooked something.

Romans 8:4-8,

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

and Romans 13:8-10

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[fn] “You shall not covet,”[fn] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[fn] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


I'm especially fond of verses 4-5 in Rom 8.

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

I.e., it's ONLY possible to fulfill God's Law, by walking in the Spirit, which means we have to focus our thinking on spiritual things.

Seems to me that it'd be a good idea to spend more time studying this issue.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I think you overlooked something.

Romans 8:4-8,

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

and Romans 13:8-10

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[fn] “You shall not covet,”[fn] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[fn] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


I'm especially fond of verses 4-5 in Rom 8.

4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

I.e., it's ONLY possible to fulfill God's Law, by walking in the Spirit, which means we have to focus our thinking on spiritual things.

Seems to me that it'd be a good idea to spend more time studying this issue.
As I stated--I agree with your premise above. To be sure, the scriptures do also:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

That defies faith alone theology.
 

Bob Dobbalina

Active member
Again--how are you relating the Mosaic Law--to the commandment to keep the commandments?



1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:3--King James Version (KJV)
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:24--King James Version (KJV)
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

John 14:21---King James Version (KJV)
21, He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to hi

So when are you going to stop RUNNING AWAY from the following, dberrie?:


Rom. 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Gal. 3:24
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Post #8 Hawkeye says it best-

One of the most misunderstood doctrines of scripture is that Yahweh gave two (2) Laws to the children of Israel. Only one was ever referred to as the Law of Moses. Both contained the Ten Commandments.....so to say that they are not important to Yahweh and his children is to ignore scripture.
 

Bob Dobbalina

Active member
How are you relating any of that to the commandment to keep the commandments? What do you feel is the relationship between your scriptures--and the command to keep the commandments?

John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Post #8 Hawkeye-

One of the most misunderstood doctrines of scripture is that Yahweh gave two (2) Laws to the children of Israel. Only one was ever referred to as the Law of Moses. Both contained the Ten Commandments.....so to say that they are not important to Yahweh and his children is to ignore scripture.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Forgive me for waiting so long to answer.

Yes, the Law of Moses was a temporary thing which had many different commands to do this....and that....and was enforced by a "Levitical Priesthood" to insure that Israel stayed in compliance with the law. This was not Yahweh's original intent. He wanted them to be a nation of priests [Exodus 19:5-6] but soon realized they could not do this [Deuteronomy 5:29; 29:4].

Guaranteed forgiveness was also part of the Law of Moses with the appropriate sacrifice as a sin offering. Yahweh's Law likely would have guaranteed death for the same offense as the Levitical Priesthood did not yet exist. They carried Yahweh's Law in the Ark and carried the Law of Moses on its side [Deuteronomy 31:24-26].

Hebrews is one of two Biblical Books that mention an "Old Covenant" and speaks of two Covenants....the first being at fault. The word "First" also appears in verses [8:13][9:1;15;18]. The Greek is PROTE....not PROTO and means the first of two that is under discussion. This word does not refer to Yahweh's Covenant of [Exodus 20] commonly known as the Sinai Covenant as opposed to the Law of Moses which was the Moab Covenant [Deuteronomy 1:5].

The "First Covenant" mentioned in Hebrews is the Law of Moses and the writer of the book specifically identifies it as such:

[Hebrews 9:18-22]Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

When the Law of Yahweh was ratified at Sinai there is a marked difference in the two ceremonies:

[Exodus 24:4-8] And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD. And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

The reason we know Hebrews speaks of the Law of Moses is the simple fact that blood was sprinkled on the Tabernacle and the vessels of the ministry during its ratification. When the Law of Yahweh was ratified (90 days out of Egypt) the Tabernacle had not yet been built.....and would not built until the second year:

[Exodus 40:17-19] And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first day of the month, that the tabernacle was reared up. And Moses reared up the tabernacle, and fastened his sockets, and set up the boards thereof, and put in the bars thereof, and reared up his pillars. And he spread abroad the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above upon it; as the LORD commanded Moses.

In addition....no goats were sacrificed at Sinai.

Hebrews speaks of the Old Covenant which has now passed with the giving of the New Covenant of Yeshua:

[Hebrews 7:11-12]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Remember......There was no Levitical Priesthood set up under the Law of Yahweh. They all were to become a nation of Priests [Exodus 19:6].
Adam lived in the old the laws of Eden, He lived in the new when he was removed from the laws of Eden and became like the God of SPirit to know this difference, Gen 3:22. Abraham did the very same went from the law to SPirit, Moses did the same went from law to Spirit, Mary did, Jesus did the very same from teaching the laws of the temples to teaching SPirit in the streets, 120 in an upper room went from law to SPirit. And when the same SPirit comes to anyone today, we do the very same thing.

The pold and the new always has been inforce from the very beginning.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
And those who are in Christ Jesus our Lord ARE led by the Spirit. And how is the Law fulfilled in us? Paul tells us here in Romans 8:



Christ's perfect keeping of the Law is credited to us by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. So, HIS righteousness becomes OURS, for we have none of our own to boast about!

The Law of Faith


Indeed, the law is to be regarded in the same light as works. “For through the law a hatred of the law is awakened, but through faith a love for the law is infused.” For with the love of God who loves us, the love of his law is born in us. One could say that only when we have found God who does not speak in the language of the law by saying, “You should,” but rather says, “I am the Lord your God”—only then can we love the law. In the former we hear the command of a tyrant; in the latter we hear the will of the Father.

Of course here, as with works, a change is effected in terms of the law. For the law that we love is now not the same law that was “against us,” namely, the law that we love is not the letter of the law; the law of works; the old law; the law of the flesh; the laws of Moses; the laws of sin and of death; the law that condemns everyone and declares everyone guilty.

The law that we love is not the law that fosters resentment and in which death is hidden and all the more so as it has the appearance of spirituality (Luther has innumerable names to describe the breadth and depth of this kind of law), but is the law that we begin to love as the “law of faith.”

It is the new law, the law of Christ, the law of grace and of the Spirit. It is, as Luther says, “the living will itself and the life of experience … that is written in the heart only by the finger of God.”​

THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH ACCORDING TO LUTHER

I just Love that!
 
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