The most important doctrine in Scripture- The bodily Resurrection of Jesus !

civic

Active member
Which is at the heart and center of the Gospel Message.

Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (Timothy 2:5) post ascension.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Hebrews 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Corinthians 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.


In Heaven....Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Philippians 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.

hope this helps !!!
 

Thistle

Well-known member
If you are starting where the Jews did, I would agree. The resurrection in one step crystallized the essence of Christian doctrine. If you've not had time to let the teaching of the Old Testament sink in, I would think the most fundamental doctrine is "In the beginning God . . . " From this all the other hard questions that are put to the biblical message are ultimately be answered.
 

civic

Active member
If you are starting where the Jews did, I would agree. The resurrection in one step crystallized the essence of Christian doctrine. If you've not had time to let the teaching of the Old Testament sink in, I would think the most fundamental doctrine is "In the beginning God . . . " From this all the other hard questions that are put to the biblical message are ultimately be answered.
And we can see that John in his Prologue parallels the Genesis 1 account of Creation once again pointing to the Son. All Scripture point to Him. Its all about Him from cover to cover.

Jesus declared the OT was about Himself

Luke 24:25-27
25
And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.


John 5:39-40
39
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.


Luke 24:44-45
44
Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,


Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM

John 15:26

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7-9
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me

John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

So I always bear witness to the Son who is God, Creator, Redeemer, Savior, Lord, YHWH, Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, The King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord God Almighty, The True God and Eternal life. The Only Sovereign and Lord, the One Lord, God in the flesh, etc...........

hope this helps !!!
 

Thistle

Well-known member
And we can see that John in his Prologue parallels the Genesis 1 account of Creation once again pointing to the Son. All Scripture point to Him. Its all about Him from cover to cover.
Excellent point.
Jesus declared the OT was about Himself

Luke 24:25-27
25
And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.


John 5:39-40
39
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.


Luke 24:44-45
44
Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
Terrific citations underscoring your point.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM

John 15:26

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7-9
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me

John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

So I always bear witness to the Son who is God, Creator, Redeemer, Savior, Lord, YHWH, Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, The King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord God Almighty, The True God and Eternal life. The Only Sovereign and Lord, the One Lord, God in the flesh, etc...........

hope this helps !!!
Very good. John 16:8 is especially relevant to the advance of God's kingdom here on earth.
 
If you are starting where the Jews did, I would agree. The resurrection in one step crystallized the essence of Christian doctrine. If you've not had time to let the teaching of the Old Testament sink in, I would think the most fundamental doctrine is "In the beginning God . . . " From this all the other hard questions that are put to the biblical message are ultimately be answered.
But even when preaching to Gentiles (cf. Acts 17) Paul drives toward the resurrection the central point of the gospel.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
But even when preaching to Gentiles (cf. Acts 17) Paul drives toward the resurrection the central point of the gospel.
That is really an excellent point. But note Paul started with his knowledge of the Hellenist and their cosmology and in verse 24 says "the God who made the world and everything in it . . ." thereby laying the foundation for the gospel. So Paul shows we can lay that foundation quite quickly if we understand our audience.
 

e v e

Active member
Christ was resurrected not into a flesh type material fallen body such as ours. His body at resurrection was and is the gorgeous eden-body of Genesis.
 

e v e

Active member
That is really an excellent point. But note Paul started with his knowledge of the Hellenist and their cosmology and in verse 24 says "the God who made the world and everything in it . . ." thereby laying the foundation for the gospel. So Paul shows we can lay that foundation quite quickly if we understand our audience.
The earth He made in Genesis at creation is not this current one. Different land.
 

TrevorL

Member
Christ was resurrected not into a flesh type material fallen body such as ours. His body at resurrection was and is the gorgeous eden-body of Genesis.
Greetings eve,

The bodies of Adam and Eve before the fall were not immortal and glorious. Jesus' body is now both immortal and glorious. We had a preview when he was on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

e v e

Active member
Greetings eve,

The bodies of Adam and Eve before the fall were not immortal and glorious. Jesus' body is now both immortal and glorious. We had a preview when he was on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Kind regards
Trevor
adam is the topic many times in prophets, he being still quite alive in the other world, where eden is, though working for the wrong realm. per prophet chapters he will die soon and return to God.
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings again eve,
adam is the topic many times in prophets, he being still quite alive in the other world, where eden is, though working for the wrong realm. per prophet chapters he will die soon and return to God.
I believe that Adam and Eve died and returned to the dust. If saved before their death, then when Jesus returns they will be resurrected and given eternal life and will be participants in the Kingdom of God upon the earth, Eden restored.
Genesis 3:19 (KJV): In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Daniel 12:2–3 (KJV): 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.


The resurrection of Jesus from the dead and his being granted immortality is the assurance that the faithful will be raised from the dead and given immortality.
2 Timothy 1:10 (KJV): But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Kind regards
Trevor
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
There was no need for a Mediator prior to the fall. But the Lord provided coats of skin for them in Genesis 3:21.
So you must conclude there was a time man didnt have a mediator which seems to contradict 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus


There was no need for a Mediator prior to the fall.

What would be wrong with a Mediator setup before the fall, that would be prudent on Gods Part, for He foresaw the evil
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The resurrection of Jesus Christ affirmed that those whom sins He was delivered for, were Justified from them Rom 4:25

25 who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
 
Which is at the heart and center of the Gospel Message.

Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (Timothy 2:5) post ascension.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Hebrews 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Corinthians 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.


In Heaven....Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Philippians 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.

hope this helps !!!
I would believe the most powerful doctrine in Christianity is in a beginning with John the Baptist preaching in Matthew 3:11 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Jesus would come and baptized with the Holy Spirit.

MARK 16:16
For those who believe and are baptized will be saved
 

civic

Active member
I would believe the most powerful doctrine in Christianity is in a beginning with John the Baptist preaching in Matthew 3:11 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Jesus would come and baptized with the Holy Spirit.

MARK 16:16
For those who believe and are baptized will be saved
The gospel is the power of God to salvation -Romans 1:16.

We are born again by His word.

John 1:13
children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

1 Peter 1:23- For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Hebrews 4:12- For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

hope this helps !!!
 
The gospel is the power of God to salvation -Romans 1:16.

We are born again by His word.

John 1:13
children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

1 Peter 1:23- For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Hebrews 4:12- For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

hope this helps !!!
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Would you believe there's an event in your life when you're born again? it's a Christian experience ?

MARK 16:16

For those who believe and are baptized will be saved

Belief in Jesus is not enough Jesus himself has to baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved
 
Do you believe Adam had a Mediator?
Interesting question. Moses was the mediator of the old covenant, Jesus the mediator of the new. Adam existed before either covenant, so he would n
So you must conclude there was a time man didnt have a mediator which seems to contradict 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus




What would be wrong with a Mediator setup before the fall, that would be prudent on Gods Part, for He foresaw the evil
The definition of a mediator would help in this discussion. It is the person who helps the two parties at court to come to an agreement before they appear before the judge.
Moses was the Old Covenant mediator. Jesus was the New Covenant mediator.
Once a covenant is in place, the mediator's job is over
 
Last edited:

brightfame52

Well-known member
Interesting question. Moses was the mediator of the old covenant, Jesus the mediator of the new. Adam existed before either covenant, so he would n

The definition of a mediator would help in this discussion. It is the person who helps the two parties at court to come to an agreement before they appear before the judge.
Moses was the Old Covenant mediator. Jesus was the New Covenant mediator.
Once a covenant is in place, the mediator's job is over
So did Moses have a Mediator? Scripture says Christ is the one Mediator between God and Men 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
 
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