The most important doctrine in Scripture- The bodily Resurrection of Jesus !

[guest1]

This does not change what the verse actually states. funny how you made a big deal about me getting the verse numbers wrong (which is meaningless) but here you intentionally misquote scripture and think nothing about it.

Nothing is misquoted but I have provided exegetical comments from the GREEK SCHOLARS.

any more fallacious arguments...............................................

BTW- We have yet see you ever exegete a single verse in the bible in your 10 plus years on CARM. That speaks volumes about your lack of being a serious bible student.

And you are a self proclaimed bible study teacher. James has some strong words of condemnation for such persons.

Jesus will say to me well done good and faithful servant for my defense of His bodily Resurrection/Ascension, His Deity and that He forever remains God in the flesh. This is SALVIFIC.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Sethproton]

Greetings again Sethproton,

I understand metonymy as sometimes representing cause for effect and other examples. We say someone is drunk, but the meaning is that he has drunk too much alcohol, or figuratively "he's been on the bottle again". Jesus is going to bring our life from heaven, but life is what the individual has or is given, and therefore it is not life that Jesus brings, nor does he bring a new body. The word "sin" is used as a metonymy in Romans 8:3 "condemned sin in the flesh".

That is your theology, not mine. I believe that what people saw of the Angels is what they are, except I believe that they can withhold their glory. I believe that after the resurrection the disciples saw Jesus as he is, but he withheld his glory. He revealed his glory to Paul on the way to Damascus.

I disagree with this logic. I do not understand the spiritual world to be comprised of ethereal creatures, like ghosts. I believe that Jesus and the Angels are substantial physical beings. They are spiritual bodies, not spirits. The word "spirit" comes from "breath", but it has a far wider meaning than is usually claimed.

Kind regards
Trevor

Here is an example of a metonymy. Using the word "suit" to mean "business man"
Perhaps you are looking for another word describing figurative language. It does not change your point, but would add to your post to use the correct terminology.
Angels are spiritual creatures who live in the spiritual world, vastly different from our physical world. Flesh only exists in our world, though spirit exists in both. The Bible teaches that angels take on forms to be seen, and generally those forms are men. But angels are not men and would not "look" like men but angels.
Jesus is indeed a Spirit. The Bible states so. But that word has a variety of uses. God is spirit. That does not mean He is an angel. Context is needed to know what the word means. You have noted already that the word can mean breath, Or wind, or an angel or God. It also means the animate force in a man. So context is crucial.
One mistake you are making is that when the Bible uses the word "body" (a physical body) to explain that there is a spiritual body, that cannot mean that a physical body id the same as a spiritual body. Otherwise there is no reason for the comparison.

 

[Sethproton]

Nothing is misquoted but I have provided exegetical comments from the GREEK SCHOLARS.

any more fallacious arguments...............................................

BTW- We have yet see you ever exegete a single verse in the bible in your 10 plus years on CARM. That speaks volumes about your lack of being a serious bible student.

And you are a self proclaimed bible study teacher. James has some strong words of condemnation for such persons.

Jesus will say to me well done good and faithful servant for my defense of His bodily Resurrection/Ascension, His Deity and that He forever remains God in the flesh. This is SALVIFIC.

hope this helps !!!

The verse does not say or imply that Jesus is still here on earth as a man. You should stop claiming that.

 

[guest1]

The verse does not say or imply that Jesus is still here on earth as a man. You should stop claiming that.

sure it does but since you cannot read Greek you are lost in the darkness.

if you can remember( which I doubt) on the old forum you posted about this , you were corrected on the language forum by numerous members and refused to listen to anyone. They supported me on these passages because its what the GREEK STATES in those 2 verses.

next.........................

 

[Sethproton]

sure it does but since you cannot read Greek you are lost in the darkness.

if you can remember( which I doubt) on the old forum you posted about this , you were corrected on the language forum by numerous members and refused to listen to anyone. They supported me on these passages because its what the GREEK STATES in those 2 verses.

next.........................

Posters, please pay attention to what this poster is saying.
I said to him: the verse does not teach that Jesus is still on earth as a man
He responded: sure it does

Can you really take seriously anything this person says if he teaches that Jesus is still on earth as a man?

 

[guest1]

Posters, please pay attention to what this poster is saying.
I said to him: the verse does not teach that Jesus is still on earth as a man
He responded: sure it does

Can you really take seriously anything this person says if he teaches that Jesus is still on earth as a man?

who said he was on earth how absurd are you off topic accusations.

He has come in the flesh and remains in the flesh ( a man ) in heaven.

How desperate can you get ?

This is what I said then you twisted it and I overlooked your on earth words.

civic said:
Nothing is misquoted but I have provided exegetical comments from the GREEK SCHOLARS.

any more fallacious arguments...............................................

BTW- We have yet see you ever exegete a single verse in the bible in your 10 plus years on CARM. That speaks volumes about your lack of being a serious bible student.

And you are a self proclaimed bible study teacher. James has some strong words of condemnation for such persons.

Jesus will say to me well done good and faithful servant for my defense of His bodily Resurrection/Ascension, His Deity and that He forever remains God in the flesh. This is SALVIFIC.

hope this helps !!!

 

[guest1]

Here is an example of a metonymy. Using the word "suit" to mean "business man"
Perhaps you are looking for another word describing figurative language. It does not change your point, but would add to your post to use the correct terminology.
Angels are spiritual creatures who live in the spiritual world, vastly different from our physical world. Flesh only exists in our world, though spirit exists in both. The Bible teaches that angels take on forms to be seen, and generally those forms are men. But angels are not men and would not "look" like men but angels.
Jesus is indeed a Spirit. The Bible states so. But that word has a variety of uses. God is spirit. That does not mean He is an angel. Context is needed to know what the word means. You have noted already that the word can mean breath, Or wind, or an angel or God. It also means the animate force in a man. So context is crucial.
One mistake you are making is that when the Bible uses the word "body" (a physical body) to explain that there is a spiritual body, that cannot mean that a physical body id the same as a spiritual body. Otherwise there is no reason for the comparison.

more JW heresy

you should go to your local JW congregation as you have much more in common with them than the church you attend now.

 

[Sethproton]

who said he was on earth how absurd are you off topic accusations.

He has come in the flesh and remains in the flesh ( a man ) in heaven.

How desperate can you get ?

This is what I said then you twisted it and I overlooked your on earth words.

civic said:
Nothing is misquoted but I have provided exegetical comments from the GREEK SCHOLARS.

any more fallacious arguments...............................................

BTW- We have yet see you ever exegete a single verse in the bible in your 10 plus years on CARM. That speaks volumes about your lack of being a serious bible student.

And you are a self proclaimed bible study teacher. James has some strong words of condemnation for such persons.

Jesus will say to me well done good and faithful servant for my defense of His bodily Resurrection/Ascension, His Deity and that He forever remains God in the flesh. This is SALVIFIC.

hope this helps !!!

ok, so you did not really read my post and responded to something other than what i said.
This is also important for posters to see, this poster is so anxious to "correct" that he does not read even a short post for understanding.
Yet he will demean me for making a typo about verse numbers.

 

[guest1]

ok, so you did not really read my post and responded to something other than what i said.
This is also important for posters to see, this poster is so anxious to "correct" that he does not read even a short post for understanding.
Yet he will demean me for making a typo about verse numbers.

pot/kettle just like you do 24/7 with scripture which you misquote all the time,

thanks for another piece of "daily irony starring seth" ..............................

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Sethproton,

Angels are spiritual creatures who live in the spiritual world, vastly different from our physical world. Flesh only exists in our world, though spirit exists in both. The Bible teaches that angels take on forms to be seen, and generally those forms are men. But angels are not men and would not "look" like men but angels.

There is no statement or evidence that Angels take on forms to be seen. I believe that they appeared as they actually are, similar to men, but sometimes they withheld their glory. I do not accept that Angels have wings as commonly depicted. I do not believe in a "spiritual world", but I believe in the location of a Physical God, God the Father seated upon His Throne in Heaven, and with Jesus seated at His right hand in God the Father's Throne, while the important Angels stand before this Throne. Jesus is a physical man, now glorified and having a spiritual body, the same body that he had, but now healed and transformed, but would appear the same as he was when upon earth, not a Ghost or Breath (Spirit). he will not need to take on a FORM to be seen. He may or may not withhold his glory, similar to as seen on the Mount of Transfiguration, which is an indication of what he will be actually like when he returns, not by taking on another form. The word "Spirit" does not indicate something is ethereal or ghost-like or merely a breath. It indicates that ALL things have proceeded from God the Father.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Sethproton]

Greetings again Sethproton,

There is no statement or evidence that Angels take on forms to be seen. I believe that they appeared as they actually are, similar to men, but sometimes they withheld their glory. I do not accept that Angels have wings as commonly depicted. I do not believe in a "spiritual world", but I believe in the location of a Physical God, God the Father seated upon His Throne in Heaven, and with Jesus seated at His right hand in God the Father's Throne, while the important Angels stand before this Throne. Jesus is a physical man, now glorified and having a spiritual body, the same body that he had, but now healed and transformed, but would appear the same as he was when upon earth, not a Ghost or Breath (Spirit). he will not need to take on a FORM to be seen. He may or may not withhold his glory, similar to as seen on the Mount of Transfiguration, which is an indication of what he will be actually like when he returns, not by taking on another form. The word "Spirit" does not indicate something is ethereal or ghost-like or merely a breath. It indicates that ALL things have proceeded from God the Father.

Kind regards
Trevor

A couple ideas. Are you aware that angels can appear to people, and those people do not realize they are angels?
Also, do you know that the devil can appear in various forms?

But any spiritual being is able to appear in a different form when they visit earth. Satan can appear as an angel of light.

Interesting that you do not believe in a spiritual world. So maybe you do not really believe in spiritual bodies that are fit for that realm?

 

[guest1]

A couple ideas. Are you aware that angels can appear to people, and those people do not realize they are angels?
Also, do you know that the devil can appear in various forms?

But any spiritual being is able to appear in a different form when they visit earth. Satan can appear as an angel of light.

Interesting that you do not believe in a spiritual world. So maybe you do not really believe in spiritual bodies that are fit for that realm?

Nice strawman he did not say he does not believe in a spiritual world did he ?

Like I have demonstrated Paul never once implied spiritual means non physical. The spiritual man , rock, food, manna , drink, body are all physical things/ people who’s source is the Spirit hence they are spiritual.

next………

 

[Sethproton]

Nice strawman he did not say he does not believe in a spiritual world did he ?

Like I have demonstrated Paul never once implied spiritual means non physical. The spiritual man , rock, food, manna , drink, body are all physical things/ people who’s source is the Spirit hence they are spiritual.

next………

Come on Civic, at least read the posts. here is a quote directly from the post I responded to. he typed, 'I do not believe in a "spiritual world"'
I do wonder if people in the forum realize that you think the spiritual world is actually a physical world.

 

[guest1]

Come on Civic, at least read the posts. here is a quote directly from the post I responded to. he typed, 'I do not believe in a "spiritual world"'

He means your unbiblical version of spiritual not the real physical spiritual world where Jesus exists as a real man with a real flesh and bone human body in heaven. Read Revelation 20-21. It’s a real physical place.

next…..

 

[Sethproton]

He means your unbiblical version of spiritual not the real physical spiritual world where Jesus exists as a real man with a real flesh and bone human body in heaven. Read Revelation 20-21. It’s a real physical place.

next…..

Ah, you can read his mind.
Does not matter what he says because you know what he really means.

Does nobody here have a problem with Civic saying that Heaven is a physical place?

 

[guest1]

Ah, you can read his mind.
Does not matter what he says because you know what he really means.

I know what Trevor believes we are like minded having the mind of Christ.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Sethproton,

Are you aware that angels can appear to people, and those people do not realize they are angels?

Yes, but I understand that the major difference is that in their normal appearance they reveal their glory, but often when they appeared this glory was withdrawn or suppressed.
Hebrews 13:2 (KJV): Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
There are a number of examples, such as with Abraham, Jacob wrestling an Angel and when an Angel appeared to the parents of Samson.

Interesting that you do not believe in a spiritual world.

Does nobody here have a problem with Civic saying that Heaven is a physical place?

I agree with Civic here, I believe in a physical world where the Beings are substantial physical beings who are Spirit Beings. Jesus is a human who died and was resurrected, and his resurrected body was then transformed into a Spirit Being. The vision of Jesus in his transfiguration is a good example of what Jesus will be like when he returns to the earth.
2 Peter 1:15–18 (KJV): 15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

I know what Trevor believes we are like minded having the mind of Christ.

Possibly we have similar beliefs on this subject, but you have "Jesus is God" on your avatar, but I believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[guest1]

Greetings again Sethproton,

Yes, but I understand that the major difference is that in their normal appearance they reveal their glory, but often when they appeared this glory was withdrawn or suppressed.
Hebrews 13:2 (KJV): Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
There are a number of examples, such as with Abraham, Jacob wrestling an Angel and when an Angel appeared to the parents of Samson.


I agree with Civic here, I believe in a physical world where the Beings are substantial physical beings who are Spirit Beings. Jesus is a human who died and was resurrected, and his resurrected body was then transformed into a Spirit Being. The vision of Jesus in his transfiguration is a good example of what Jesus will be like when he returns to the earth.
2 Peter 1:15–18 (KJV): 15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Possibly we have similar beliefs on this subject, but you have "Jesus is God" on your avatar, but I believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

I’m saying our beliefs are the same concerning His Resurrection Body.

 

[Sethproton]

Greetings again Sethproton,

Yes, but I understand that the major difference is that in their normal appearance they reveal their glory, but often when they appeared this glory was withdrawn or suppressed.
Hebrews 13:2 (KJV): Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
There are a number of examples, such as with Abraham, Jacob wrestling an Angel and when an Angel appeared to the parents of Samson.


I agree with Civic here, I believe in a physical world where the Beings are substantial physical beings who are Spirit Beings. Jesus is a human who died and was resurrected, and his resurrected body was then transformed into a Spirit Being. The vision of Jesus in his transfiguration is a good example of what Jesus will be like when he returns to the earth.
2 Peter 1:15–18 (KJV): 15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Possibly we have similar beliefs on this subject, but you have "Jesus is God" on your avatar, but I believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

As far as what angels look like, Revelation gives us some examples of beings that look nothing like humans. I don't believe the descriptions are literal, I think they speak of who and what these angels are, but for you to claim that angels look like people, you will have to ignore much of the book of Revelation

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Sethproton,

As far as what angels look like, Revelation gives us some examples of beings that look nothing like humans. I don't believe the descriptions are literal, I think they speak of who and what these angels are, but for you to claim that angels look like people, you will have to ignore much of the book of Revelation

The Book of Revelation is symbolic, and any depiction is not necessarily literal. Compare the Living Beasts or Creatures of Revelation 4 with the Cherubim of Ezekiel 1 and the Seraphum of Isaiah 6.

Kind regards
Trevor