The most important doctrine in Scripture- The bodily Resurrection of Jesus !

Sethproton

Well-known member
So did Moses have a Mediator? Scripture says Christ is the one Mediator between God and Men 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
In the grand scheme, Moses is saved under the new covenant, so his mediator was Christ
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Okay im glad you understand that !
While Moses was alive, the Mediator had not yet done the mediation. That was accomplished in His blood at His death, once for all time. He mediated the new covenant in His own blood. Once it was in place, He sat down with the Father.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
While Moses was alive, the Mediator had not yet done the mediation. That was accomplished in His blood at His death, once for all time. He mediated the new covenant in His own blood. Once it was in place, He sat down with the Father.
But you understand that Christ Jesus existed and was Moses Mediator dont you ? I know His death was yet future, but He still was in existence, in heaven ! Do you believe that ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
While Moses was alive, the Mediator had not yet done the mediation. That was accomplished in His blood at His death, once for all time. He mediated the new covenant in His own blood. Once it was in place, He sat down with the Father.
So do you believe that men Christ would die for, the OT Saints did not already benefit savingly, before Christ actually came and died ?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
But you understand that Christ Jesus existed and was Moses Mediator dont you ? I know His death was yet future, but He still was in existence, in heaven ! Do you believe that ?
Yes, Christ is eternal God, always existing, but it was as a man that He was our mediator. SO when I say that He was Moses' Mediator, I do not mean while Moses walked the earth but that the man Jesus was the Mediator for all of mankind.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
seth

Yes, Christ is eternal God, always existing

Even though that is True[Christ is God], His being Mediator isnt as God, His Mediaton is as the Man Christ Jesus, between Man and God. God is not a Mediator 1 Tim 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
So do you believe that men Christ would die for, the OT Saints did not already benefit savingly, before Christ actually came and died ?
As far as benefit, in faith they looked forward without knowing what He was going to do to save them, but their faith was counted as righteousness. They would have been unable to articulate that Christ would mediate a covenant in His blood, but by faith He was their Savior and when He died, His blood covered them, and allowed Him to mediate the new covenant on their behalf.
Just to clarify again. a mediator is the person in court who brings the two parties to an agreement so they can come unified before the judge. His blood, unified us with God.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
seth
SO when I say that He was Moses' Mediator, I do not mean while Moses walked the earth but that the man Jesus was the Mediator for all of mankind.
So do you mean that Moses had no Mediator in existence, while he himself lived on earth ?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
seth



Even though that is True[Christ is God], His being Mediator isnt as God, His Mediaton is as the Man Christ Jesus, between Man and God. God is not a Mediator 1 Tim 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Exactly
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
seth

So do you mean that Moses had no Mediator in existence, while he himself lived on earth ?
Right, the New Covenant had not yet been mediated. I find people have some confusion about that part of Christ's work.
While our Mediator has existed eternally, He did not do His mediation until He died, and offered His blood to the Father Judge.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
As far as benefit, in faith they looked forward without knowing what He was going to do to save them, but their faith was counted as righteousness. They would have been unable to articulate that Christ would mediate a covenant in His blood, but by faith He was their Savior and when He died, His blood covered them, and allowed Him to mediate the new covenant on their behalf.
Just to clarify again. a mediator is the person in court who brings the two parties to an agreement so they can come unified before the judge. His blood, unified us with God.
So wasnt Christ Blood just as good as having been already shed[before God] since its written He was slain [past tense] from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

when He died, His blood covered them,

So His Blood didnt cover them before He died ? What was David the old testament Saint talking about here then Ps 32:1

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
 

civic

Well-known member
Interesting question. Moses was the mediator of the old covenant, Jesus the mediator of the new. Adam existed before either covenant, so he would n

The definition of a mediator would help in this discussion. It is the person who helps the two parties at court to come to an agreement before they appear before the judge.
Moses was the Old Covenant mediator. Jesus was the New Covenant mediator.
Once a covenant is in place, the mediator's job is over
Well you are directly contradicting the Scriptures with your earthly understanding and reasoning

Scripture states there IS One God(present tense) and there IS One Mediator(present tense) between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. This is post Resurrection/Ascension when this was written decades after Jesus died. Basic grammar below reveals you cannot be right as the present tense is being used below in these passages.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Hebrews 9:15-19

15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. 18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood.

Hebrews 12:22-24
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Hebrews 13:8
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

So Jesus IS not was the Mediator between God and man. He ever lives to make intercession.

Hebrews 7:22-25
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant 23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

You are free to believe whatever you want but I will stick to these Scripture which declare that He is our PRESENT Mediator and High Priest of the New Covenant which is still in effect until the Resurrection.

hope this helps !!!
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
So wasnt Christ Blood just as good as having been already shed[before God] since its written He was slain [past tense] from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.



So His Blood didnt cover them before He died ? What was David the old testament Saint talking about here then Ps 32:1

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
I would not disagree that Moses was justified by faith, before Christ ever died. I am not arguing against that. But mediation took place while Jesus was a man, after He died. Do you agree that Christ mediated the covenant in His own blood after He died? And I would add that after the covenant was mediated and in place, His role as Mediator ended. He did it once for all time.
As far as David writing that sin was covered, that means hidden. The sacrifices of the OT law were not meant for eternal forgiveness. Those sacrifices spoke of Christ's work, and they "covered" believers until Christ could erase sin.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Right, the New Covenant had not yet been mediated. I find people have some confusion about that part of Christ's work.
While our Mediator has existed eternally, He did not do His mediation until He died, and offered His blood to the Father Judge.
I disagree that the New Covenant had not yet been Mediate. Before the New Covenant was made manifest, it was the Everlasting Covenant. In other words, the New Covenant is the establishment of the Everlasting Covenant in time, but the everlasting covenant was before time, based upon the Blood of Christ that would be shed in time Heb 13 20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Thats when Christ the Mediator became Surety of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7 22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

So Mediator and Surety are the same Office for Christ, and if a Covenant was made before time, Christ was performing His work of a Mediator before time !


He did not do His mediation until He died

I believe thats inaccurate

He began His work before He died, but that part of His work would be in time. However He was Mediating for Men before that time.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I disagree that the New Covenant had not yet been Mediate. Before the New Covenant was made manifest, it was the Everlasting Covenant. In other words, the New Covenant is the establishment of the Everlasting Covenant in time, but the everlasting covenant was before time, based upon the Blood of Christ that would be shed in time Heb 13 20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Thats when Christ the Mediator became Surety of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7 22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

So Mediator and Surety are the same Office for Christ, and if a Covenant was made before time, Christ was performing His work of a Mediator before time !




I believe thats inaccurate

He began His work before He died, but that part of His work would be in time. However He was Mediating for Men before that time.
Can you show in scripture that Christ mediating with His blood was happening before He became a man?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
seth

. But mediation took place while Jesus was a man, after He died.

I disagree with that. His death took place in time, but not His Mediation work !

Do you agree that Christ mediated the covenant in His own blood after He died?

Before and After He died, He was setup as Surety/Mediator before He died.

And I would add that after the covenant was mediated and in place, His role as Mediator ended. He did it once for all time.

I disagree with this too, that His role as Mediator ended, that contradicts 1 Tim 1:5 and 1 Jn 2 1

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Now, His death role He did it once and for all time !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Can you show in scripture that Christ mediating with His blood was happening before He became a man?
What does 1 Tim 2 5 say ? It says He is Mediator between God and Man, so as long as Man existed, He was Mediator. Men had Faith in His Blood before His Incarnation didnt they ?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
seth



I disagree with that. His death took place in time, but not His Mediation work !



Before and After He died, He was setup as Surety/Mediator before He died.



I disagree with this too, that His role as Mediator ended, that contradicts 1 Tim 1:5 and 1 Jn 2 1

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Now, His death role He did it once and for all time !
Are you making no distinction between those two court terms mediator and advocate? Christ is both, but the jobs are separate. Remember that it is not Christ who is the mediator of the old covenant, but Moses.
Clarify and separate the two roles. In court your advocate is not your mediator. Those are different jobs with different purposes. Words have meaning, and if we want to understand what is being taught, we have to accept the meanings of words.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
What does 1 Tim 2 5 say ? It says He is Mediator between God and Man, so as long as Man existed, He was Mediator. Men had Faith in His Blood before His Incarnation didnt they ?
1 TIM 2:5 says the mediator is the Man Christ Jesus. How does that allow the doctrine that Jesus was mediating before He was a man?
 
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