The nature of faith.

Sethproton

Well-known member
Once again, that is not "faith", that is KNOWLEDGE.
You have been corrected, so now you are without excuse.
"Corrected" is the wrong word. You have made a claim that people can understand that God exists without faith. The Bible teaches differently.
Instead it teaches that it is by faith we understand these things.
You think it is human knowledge, the Bible says that human understanding of these things is by faith

No one has refuted this, Hebrews states it clearly
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
You have been refuted on this many, many times, Seth.
You have no excuse.
Romans 1 does not even mention faith
"Corrected" is the wrong word. You have made a claim that people can understand that God exists without faith. The Bible teaches differently.
Instead it teaches that it is by faith we understand these things.
You think it is human knowledge, the Bible says that human understanding of these things is by faith
It does not teach differently. See Romans 1.
 

civic

Well-known member
"Corrected" is the wrong word. You have made a claim that people can understand that God exists without faith. The Bible teaches differently.
Instead it teaches that it is by faith we understand these things.
You think it is human knowledge, the Bible says that human understanding of these things is by faith

No one has refuted this, Hebrews states it clearly
no its only BY FAITH only for BELIEVERS not unbelievers as your aberrant doctrine espouses.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
"Corrected" is the wrong word. You have made a claim that people can understand that God exists without faith. The Bible teaches differently.
Instead it teaches that it is by faith we understand these things.
You think it is human knowledge, the Bible says that human understanding of these things is by faith

No one has refuted this, Hebrews states it clearly

Oh, I get it.... YOU get to "correct" others, but nobody gets to "correct" you.
You really need to get over yourself.
You are NOT the "teacher" here.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
You have been refuted on this many, many times, Seth.
You have no excuse.
Scripture is clear one must have faith in Christ before one one receive the Spirit

John 7:38-39 (ESV)
38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Galatians 3:14 (ESV)
14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
 

civic

Well-known member
Oh, I get it.... YOU get to "correct" others, but nobody gets to "correct" you.
You really need to get over yourself.
You are NOT the "teacher" here.
not a teacher anywhere else.

well I guess false teachers are still considered teachers
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Scripture is clear one must have faith in Christ before one one receive the Spirit

John 7:38-39 (ESV)
38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Galatians 3:14 (ESV)
14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Yes. i believe the calvinist doctrine they are trying to support by denying what you are showing is their misunderstanding of the sovereignty of God.
the Calvinist version of sovereignty is not that God has the right to do as He pleases but that He does everything He has a right to do.
And of course along with that is the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity

As long as those doctrines control their thinking, they cannot see the scriptures you present for what they say
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Yes. i believe the calvinist doctrine they are trying to support by denying what you are showing is their misunderstanding of the sovereignty of God.
the Calvinist version of sovereignty is not that God has the right to do as He pleases but that He does everything He has a right to do.

Why do you feel the need to constantly MISREPRESENT Calvinism?

And of course along with that is the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity

It's Biblical.
There's a reason both Arminians and Calvinists agree with it.

As long as those doctrines control their thinking, they cannot see the scriptures you present for what they say

Our beliefs COME from the Scriptures.
 

civic

Well-known member
Why do you feel the need to constantly MISREPRESENT Calvinism?



It's Biblical.
There's a reason both Arminians and Calvinists agree with it.



Our beliefs COME from the Scriptures.
yes his calvin get out of jail card free does not work since Arminians also believe the truth.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Can't have the fruit of the spirit without having the Spirit

and you can't have the Spirit without faith

Don't you ever heed scripture

John 7:38-39 (ESV)
38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Galatians 3:2 (ESV)
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:5 (ESV)
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

Galatians 3:14 (ESV)
14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, if you not spiritually alive, no faith.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
"Corrected" is the wrong word. You have made a claim that people can understand that God exists without faith. The Bible teaches differently.

No, "the Bible" does NOT "teaches differently".
The Bible teaches that men know that God exists based on the evidence of (1) creation, and (2) the law written on our hearts.

No "faith" required to know that God exists.
You are the ONLY person in 2000 years who has taught this heresy.

No one has refuted this, Hebrews states it clearly

So "clearly" that no Christian in 2000 years has ever understood it that way.
Only you.
How incredibly "Gnostic" of you.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
No, "the Bible" does NOT "teaches differently".
The Bible teaches that men know that God exists based on the evidence of (1) creation, and (2) the law written on our hearts.

No "faith" required to know that God exists.
You are the ONLY person in 2000 years who has taught this heresy.



So "clearly" that no Christian in 2000 years has ever understood it that way.
Only you.
How incredibly "Gnostic" of you.
The writer of hebrews taught it when he wrote, "By faith we understand God..."
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
The writer of hebrews taught it when he wrote, "By faith we understand..."

And your errant INTERPRETATION is allegedly so "clear", that nobody in 2000 years noticed it.
Only you.
But you could never be wrong, you're infallible, right?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
How is that an argument about what the verse means?

The Bible has been studied for 2000 years, by experts, and studied in the original languages. If such a teaching existed, it would have been discovered by now.

Further, even if your false interpretation were correct (spoiler alert: it isn't), it certainly destroys your bogus claim that it is allegedly "clear".
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Chapter and verse

Regeneration is caused by what God believes and decrees, because as believers We are believe what He decrees. That is how believers are made over in His image. And if you say not, then why would God disbelieve what He decrees instead?

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Hebrews 11)
 
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