The nature of faith.

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TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, if you not spiritually alive, no faith.
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accordi
brightfame52 said:
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, if you not spiritually alive, no faith.
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according to the bible life follows faith

John 20:31 (ESV)
31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 5:24 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 5:25 (ESV)
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John 5:40 (ESV)
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

you still got it backwards
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
civic said:
Believers not unbelievers.

next
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If you are understanding God by faith, then you are believing what you are understanding. That is a statement that s self-evident but does not contribute to the conversation, You are stating a tautology
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
TomFL said:
accordi

according to the bible life follows faith

John 20:31 (ESV)
31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 5:24 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 5:25 (ESV)
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John 5:40 (ESV)
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

you still got it backwards
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The Spirit Jesus says gives life, that's when Faith is given, for its a Spiritual fruit Gal 5:22
 
T

TomFL

Guest
brightfame52 said:
The Spirit Jesus says gives life, that's when Faith is given, for its a Spiritual fruit Gal 5:22
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When one believes

Gal 5:22 is not speaking of initial saving faith

It is vicious hermeneutic you employ which seeks to interpret the bible in contradiction to itself

without faith one cannot receive the spirit

John 7:38-39 (ESV)
38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Galatians 3:2 (ESV)
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:5 (ESV)
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

Galatians 3:14 (ESV)
14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

and according to the bible life which the spirit supplies follows faith

John 20:31 (ESV)
31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 5:24 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 5:25 (ESV)
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John 5:40 (ESV)
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

you still got it backwards
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Theo1689 said:
Yet no one's allowed to ask YOU questions.... Go figure.
and, "have you tried to understand...." How incredibly flattering.
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Its a legitimate question especially how that poster handles scripture
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
No, "the Bible" does NOT "teaches differently".
The Bible teaches that men know that God exists based on the evidence of (1) creation, and (2) the law written on our hearts.
No "faith" required to know that God exists.
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Faith involves belief. And you can't know anything to exist without belief, because belief is necessary in order to make all truth and reality known and understood.


Theo1689 said:
You are the ONLY person in 2000 years who has taught this heresy.
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Actually it is heresy to say that God's truth and reality is knowable without belief. Here is a few verses that state and suggest otherwise.

Theo1689 said:
So "clearly" that no Christian in 2000 years has ever understood it that way.
Only you.
How incredibly "Gnostic" of you.
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Actually you're the one being heretical here, you seriously don't understand the Bible if you think that people can know God without belief.
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
TomFL said:
So you are saying fruit is for believers ?
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The fruit of the Spirit are given to believers and is an indication that a believer knows God through His Holy Spirit. But unbelievers too could benefit from the Fruits of the Holy Spirit; by being the recipient of that "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control" wouldn't you agree?
 
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TomFL

Guest
Tercon said:
The fruit of the Spirit are given to believers and is an indication that a believer knows God through His Holy Spirit. But unbelievers too could benefit from the Fruits of the Holy Spirit; by being the recipient of that "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control" wouldn't you agree?
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True

The fruit of the Spirit is given to believers

False

Unbelievers can receive the fruit of the Spirit
 
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TomFL

Guest
Tercon said:
in the same way believers do?
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Fruit is the result of the abiding Spirit or Christ

John 15:4-6 (KJV)
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

the idea unbelievers partake of the fruit of the Spirit is biblically absurd.
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Fruit is the result of the abiding Spirit or Christ

John 15:4-6 (KJV)
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

the idea unbelievers partake of the fruit of the Spirit is biblically absurd.
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Yes, I agree.

But unbelievers too can benefit from the Fruits of the Holy Spirit by being the recipient of that "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control" wouldn't you agree?
 
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TomFL

Guest
Tercon said:
Yes, I agree.

But unbelievers too can benefit from the Fruits of the Holy Spirit by being the recipient of that "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control" wouldn't you agree?
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Not before becoming believers
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Not before becoming believers
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I think you are misunderstanding what I mean. What I mean is that unbelievers can benefit from the Fruits of the Holy Spirit by being the recipient of that "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control" when a believer shows and extends to them "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control". I don't mean that unbelievers receive Fruits of the Holy Spirit like the believer does, because it is only believers that are indwelled with the Holy Spirit. Understand?
 
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