The "One God" of Scripture versus The "One God" of Trinitarianism

The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit.

So why do Trinitarians conclude that both the son and the spirit are also the "one God" when the Bible never expresses this?
 

Kris Jordan

Member
The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit.

So why do Trinitarians conclude that both the son and the spirit are also the "one God" when the Bible never expresses this?
Hi Ongyo,

Trinitarians conclude Jesus is God because the Bible proclaims Him as such:

According to Scripture, Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient. He also received and accepted worship, forgives sin, is the Father’s one and only Son, and is “the First and the Last” of the Old and New Testaments.

Jesus was with the Father “in the beginning.” Everything in creation was made through Him, and without Him, the universe and everything in it would not exist. Subsequently, Jesus became a human being when He left the glory of heaven to be born on the earth. As a man, Jesus never ceased being divine at any time. He was and is the full image and expression of God in human form. In other words, Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh.

Jesus is God’s “only begotten Son.” This classification is significant because it sets Jesus apart as the one and only Son of God, as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). The Greek word for the phrase “only begotten Son” is the word “monogenes,” which has two primary definitions. The first pertains to the only one of its kind or class (“single of its kind, only” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). The second conveys the only one of its kind with regard to their parents (“used of only sons or daughters, viewed in relation to their parents” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). Therefore, as the only begotten Son of God the Father, Jesus did not become God’s Son at His human inception. He is uniquely and eternally the Son who descended from heaven (John 3:13b) to be born on the earth as God manifested in the flesh. This is why, during His baptism and transfiguration, the Father spoke from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”

Another undeniable, straightforward, and irrefutable proclamation by the Father about Jesus’ divinity is found in Hebrews 1:8. He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” If God the Father calls Jesus “God,” how can anyone else claim otherwise?

One more of the Father’s affirmations that Jesus is God occurred at Jesus’ birth when God commanded the angels to worship Him (Hebrews 1:6). This is a compelling declaration because, before Jesus’ birth, God the Father stated in the Ten Commandments, “You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:3-5a). Therefore, by commanding the angels to worship Jesus, God the Father is explicitly and unequivocally confirming that Jesus is God, and, therefore, rightfully worthy of worship.

Additionally, when Jesus was worshiped by others, He did not stop them from doing so like mere men and angels rightly did when others attempted to worship them (Acts 10:25; Acts 14:11-15; Revelation 19:9-10). Neither was Jesus struck dead after accepting worship as Herod was, who was eaten by worms after allowing the people to exclaim his voice was the voice of a God and not a man (Acts 12:21-23). As God, Jesus is entitled to receive worship; therefore, He did not prohibit these individuals from exalting Him nor offend the Father by accepting their praise. Jesus allowed these people to glorify Him as God through their worship and adoration. If He were not divine but merely human in origin, He would have sinned by allowing this behavior, which would contradict multiple verses establishing Jesus’ sinlessness.

Another irrefutable fact that substantiates Jesus’ deity is found in the books of Isaiah and Revelation concerning the title, “the First and the Last.” In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, the title “the First and the Last” strictly refers to Jehovah God, the LORD, who declares that, apart from Him, there is no God. In the New Testament book of Revelation, “the First and the Last” spoke to John while John was exiled on the island of Patmos. His exact words to John were, “I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen” (Revelation 1:17-18). This statement is a direct reference to Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world and was raised to life again. Therefore, “the First and the Last” of the Old Testament is specifically identified as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Here are the Scriptural references for all of this: www.ScriptureSubjects.net/jesus-christ-is-god-scripture-references
 
Hi Ongyo,

Trinitarians conclude Jesus is God because the Bible proclaims Him as such:

According to Scripture, Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient. He also received and accepted worship, forgives sin, is the Father’s one and only Son, and is “the First and the Last” of the Old and New Testaments.
Does it really?
Jesus was with the Father “in the beginning.” Everything in creation was made through Him, and without Him, the universe and everything in it would not exist.
The Bible says "the Word was with God".
Subsequently, Jesus became a human being when He left the glory of heaven to be born on the earth. As a man, Jesus never ceased being divine at any time. He was and is the full image and expression of God in human form. In other words, Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh.
Scripture(s) please.
Jesus is God’s “only begotten Son.” This classification is significant because it sets Jesus apart as the one and only Son of God, as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). The Greek word for the phrase “only begotten Son” is the word “monogenes,” which has two primary definitions. The first pertains to the only one of its kind or class (“single of its kind, only” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). The second conveys the only one of its kind with regard to their parents (“used of only sons or daughters, viewed in relation to their parents” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). Therefore, as the only begotten Son of God the Father, Jesus did not become God’s Son at His human inception. He is uniquely and eternally the Son who descended from heaven (John 3:13b) to be born on the earth as God manifested in the flesh. This is why, during His baptism and transfiguration, the Father spoke from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”
Again, this doesn't help your case because this shows that Jesus is--not God, but--the son of God.
Another undeniable, straightforward, and irrefutable proclamation by the Father about Jesus’ divinity is found in Hebrews 1:8. He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” If God the Father calls Jesus “God,” how can anyone else claim otherwise?
I address this here.
One more of the Father’s affirmations that Jesus is God occurred at Jesus’ birth when God commanded the angels to worship Him (Hebrews 1:6). This is a compelling declaration because, before Jesus’ birth, God the Father stated in the Ten Commandments, “You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:3-5a). Therefore, by commanding the angels to worship Jesus, God the Father is explicitly and unequivocally confirming that Jesus is God, and, therefore, rightfully worthy of worship.
If Jesus were God, God wouldn't need to say: "let all of the messengers of God render him PRROSKUNEW".
Additionally, when Jesus was worshiped by others, He did not stop them from doing so like mere men and angels rightly did when others attempted to worship them (Acts 10:25; Acts 14:11-15; Revelation 19:9-10). Neither was Jesus struck dead after accepting worship as Herod was, who was eaten by worms after allowing the people to exclaim his voice was the voice of a God and not a man (Acts 12:21-23). As God, Jesus is entitled to receive worship; therefore, He did not prohibit these individuals from exalting Him nor offend the Father by accepting their praise. Jesus allowed these people to glorify Him as God through their worship and adoration. If He were not divine but merely human in origin, He would have sinned by allowing this behavior, which would contradict multiple verses establishing Jesus’ sinlessness.
1 Chronicles 29:20; Revelation 3:9.
Another irrefutable fact that substantiates Jesus’ deity is found in the books of Isaiah and Revelation concerning the title, “the First and the Last.” In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, the title “the First and the Last” strictly refers to Jehovah God, the LORD, who declares that, apart from Him, there is no God. In the New Testament book of Revelation, “the First and the Last” spoke to John while John was exiled on the island of Patmos. His exact words to John were, “I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen” (Revelation 1:17-18). This statement is a direct reference to Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world and was raised to life again. Therefore, “the First and the Last” of the Old Testament is specifically identified as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.
You've demonstrated that Jesus is first and last with regards his death and resurrection: "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore) while God his Father is "first and last" with regards His Godship: "I am the first and the last, and apart from Me there is no God".

Clearly two persons having the same title doesn't make them the same entity.
While I could address all of the scriptures in this link, none of this shows that Christ is referred to as the "one God".
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Trinitarians conclude Jesus is God because the Bible proclaims Him as such:

According to Scripture, Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient. He also received and accepted worship, forgives sin, is the Father’s one and only Son, and is “the First and the Last” of the Old and New Testaments.

As you point out...

When Trinitarians say “Jesus is God” they mean “Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient.”

In other words, in the phrase "Jesus is God", Trinitarians say the word "God" refers to ATTRIBUTES rather than to a BEING or to a PERSON.

Whereas when I say "Jesus is God", I mean "Jesus is Yahweh" (a BEING / PERSON and not just ATTRIBUTES).

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

jamesh

Active member
Does it really?

The Bible says "the Word was with God".

Scripture(s) please.

Again, this doesn't help your case because this shows that Jesus is--not God, but--the son of God.

I address this here.

If Jesus were God, God wouldn't need to say: "let all of the messengers of God render him PRROSKUNEW".

1 Chronicles 29:20; Revelation 3:9.

You've demonstrated that Jesus is first and last with regards his death and resurrection: "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore) while God his Father is "first and last" with regards His Godship: "I am the first and the last, and apart from Me there is no God".

Clearly two persons having the same title doesn't make them the same entity.

While I could address all of the scriptures in this link, none of this shows that Christ is referred to as the "one God".
Yes, really! I see you conveniently left out from John 1:1, "and the Word was God." Why is that? And what was the purpose of your JW organization changing the meaning of John 1:1 "and the Word was a god?" Since as you specially stated in your opening thread, "The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit." then please tell us all here who is "a god?" Whoever you choose to name as "a god" would there not be more than one God according to your theology? In other words, in what sense is this "a god" a god in the first place?

And btw, the Holy Spirit is identified as God at Acts 5:3-4. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? Vs4, While it remained unsold did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God."

So let's do the JW version of this verse. "Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the ACTIVE FORCE? Or, "Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, BUT TO GOD'S ACTIVE FORCE." An active force does not have "personality" and an active force is not a person. The Holy Spirit does have personality and is the third person of the Trinity.

Finally, I don't need to list the multiple verses that identify "clearly" that Jesus Christ is God. I also know your claim that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God." Since that is true then explain what it means that Jesus Christ is the "Son of man?" If this idiom means Jesus is a man then the "Son of God" idiom means Jesus is God. If you want I can explain it all to you by just going to the trial of Jesus at Matthew 26.

IN HIM,
herman
 
Yes, really! I see you conveniently left out from John 1:1, "and the Word was God." Why is that? And what was the purpose of your JW organization changing the meaning of John 1:1 "and the Word was a god?"
Notice that the OP states (in part):

The term "one God" is used in the Bible...
If you can find the phrase "one God" in John 1:1, let me know.
Since as you specially stated in your opening thread, "The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit." then please tell us all here who is "a god?" Whoever you choose to name as "a god" would there not be more than one God according to your theology? In other words, in what sense is this "a god" a god in the first place?
I've addressed this here.
And btw, the Holy Spirit is identified as God at Acts 5:3-4. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? Vs4, While it remained unsold did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God."
So let's do the JW version of this verse. "Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the ACTIVE FORCE? Or, "Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, BUT TO GOD'S ACTIVE FORCE." An active force does not have "personality" and an active force is not a person. The Holy Spirit does have personality and is the third person of the Trinity.
Acts 5:3-4 carries the same connotation as 1 Thessalonians 4:8.

(Note also that the holy spirit is God's--not God. IOW, it is His--not Him.)
Finally, I don't need to list the multiple verses that identify "clearly" that Jesus Christ is God. I also know your claim that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God." Since that is true then explain what it means that Jesus Christ is the "Son of man?" If this idiom means Jesus is a man then the "Son of God" idiom means Jesus is God. If you want I can explain it all to you by just going to the trial of Jesus at Matthew 26.

IN HIM,
herman
Even if one believes "son of man" is an idiom meaning "man", this would not work for "son of God" since "God" the name of Jesus' Father as referenced in his genealogical records (Luke 3:38).

So, if you believe "son of God" makes one God, you must also believe that:

"son of Enos" makes one Enos,
"son of Seth" makes one Seth, and
"son of Adam" makes one Adam.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Yes, really! I see you conveniently left out from John 1:1, "and the Word was God." Why is that? And what was the purpose of your JW organization changing the meaning of John 1:1 "and the Word was a god?" Since as you specially stated in your opening thread, "The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit." then please tell us all here who is "a god?" Whoever you choose to name as "a god" would there not be more than one God according to your theology? In other words, in what sense is this "a god" a god in the first place?

And btw, the Holy Spirit is identified as God at Acts 5:3-4. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? Vs4, While it remained unsold did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God."

So let's do the JW version of this verse. "Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the ACTIVE FORCE? Or, "Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, BUT TO GOD'S ACTIVE FORCE." An active force does not have "personality" and an active force is not a person. The Holy Spirit does have personality and is the third person of the Trinity.

Finally, I don't need to list the multiple verses that identify "clearly" that Jesus Christ is God. I also know your claim that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God." Since that is true then explain what it means that Jesus Christ is the "Son of man?" If this idiom means Jesus is a man then the "Son of God" idiom means Jesus is God. If you want I can explain it all to you by just going to the trial of Jesus at Matthew 26.

IN HIM,
herman

So your argument is that "son of man" means Jesus is a man then "son of David" means Jesus is David?

Also, believers are begotten sons of God. Now what?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Hi Ongyo,

Trinitarians conclude Jesus is God because the Bible proclaims Him as such:

According to Scripture, Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient. He also received and accepted worship, forgives sin, is the Father’s one and only Son, and is “the First and the Last” of the Old and New Testaments.

Jesus was with the Father “in the beginning.” Everything in creation was made through Him, and without Him, the universe and everything in it would not exist. Subsequently, Jesus became a human being when He left the glory of heaven to be born on the earth. As a man, Jesus never ceased being divine at any time. He was and is the full image and expression of God in human form. In other words, Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh.

Since you do not seem to be referring to Jesus of Nazareth's God, can you please unambiguously define the word "God" in the above statement?

Jesus is God’s “only begotten Son.” This classification is significant because it sets Jesus apart as the one and only Son of God, as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5).

Are you confessing that you are not begotten of God?

Did you not know that every firstborn child is an only begotten child.... at least until another children is begotten.

The Greek word for the phrase “only begotten Son” is the word “monogenes,” which has two primary definitions. The first pertains to the only one of its kind or class (“single of its kind, only” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). The second conveys the only one of its kind with regard to their parents (“used of only sons or daughters, viewed in relation to their parents” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). Therefore, as the only begotten Son of God the Father, Jesus did not become God’s Son at His human inception. He is uniquely and eternally the Son who descended from heaven (John 3:13b) to be born on the earth as God manifested in the flesh. This is why, during His baptism and transfiguration, the Father spoke from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”

Another undeniable, straightforward, and irrefutable proclamation by the Father about Jesus’ divinity is found in Hebrews 1:8. He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” If God the Father calls Jesus “God,” how can anyone else claim otherwise?

8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

Have you ever noticed the situation you have yourself in? God says to God that God's God rewarded God for good behavior by God's God exalting God to be above God's peers. See anything wrong there maybe?


One more of the Father’s affirmations that Jesus is God occurred at Jesus’ birth when God commanded the angels to worship Him (Hebrews 1:6).

At Hebrews 1:6, the Hebrews writer is referring to the "world to come." He explicitly tells us this.

This is a compelling declaration because, before Jesus’ birth, God the Father stated in the Ten Commandments, “You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:3-5a). Therefore, by commanding the angels to worship Jesus, God the Father is explicitly and unequivocally confirming that Jesus is God, and, therefore, rightfully worthy of worship.

What do you mean by the English word "worship"? For example, the same Greek word is used here:

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and worship before your feet, and make them know that I have loved you. Revelation 3:9

And here:

And David said to the whole congregation, Bless the Lord our God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and they bowed the knee and worshipped the Lord and the king. 1 Chronicles 29:20 LXX

Additionally, when Jesus was worshiped by others, He did not stop them from doing so like mere men and angels rightly did when others attempted to worship them (Acts 10:25; Acts 14:11-15; Revelation 19:9-10). Neither was Jesus struck dead after accepting worship as Herod was, who was eaten by worms after allowing the people to exclaim his voice was the voice of a God and not a man (Acts 12:21-23). As God, Jesus is entitled to receive worship; therefore, He did not prohibit these individuals from exalting Him nor offend the Father by accepting their praise. Jesus allowed these people to glorify Him as God through their worship and adoration. If He were not divine but merely human in origin, He would have sinned by allowing this behavior, which would contradict multiple verses establishing Jesus’ sinlessness.

Another irrefutable fact that substantiates Jesus’ deity is found in the books of Isaiah and Revelation concerning the title, “the First and the Last.” In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, the title “the First and the Last” strictly refers to Jehovah God, the LORD, who declares that, apart from Him, there is no God.

Have you ever asked yourself if the Bible ever specifically identifies the speaker of these words?

In the New Testament book of Revelation, “the First and the Last” spoke to John while John was exiled on the island of Patmos. His exact words to John were, “I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen” (Revelation 1:17-18). This statement is a direct reference to Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world and was raised to life again. Therefore, “the First and the Last” of the Old Testament is specifically identified as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Here are the Scriptural references for all of this: www.ScriptureSubjects.net/jesus-christ-is-god-scripture-references

You seem to be arguing that "First/Last" is an attribute of the divine name of the Trinitarian God the Son.

So...... Yahweh God was dead?
 

Kris Jordan

Member
Does it really?

The Bible says "the Word was with God".


Scripture(s) please.

Again, this doesn't help your case because this shows that Jesus is--not God, but--the son of God.

I address this here.

If Jesus were God, God wouldn't need to say: "let all of the messengers of God render him PRROSKUNEW".

1 Chronicles 29:20; Revelation 3:9.

You've demonstrated that Jesus is first and last with regards his death and resurrection: "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore) while God his Father is "first and last" with regards His Godship: "I am the first and the last, and apart from Me there is no God".

Clearly two persons having the same title doesn't make them the same entity.

While I could address all of the scriptures in this link, none of this shows that Christ is referred to as the "one God".

Hi Ongyo,

The answer to your questions are in the link I gave you. See the Scripture References section. :)
 

Kris Jordan

Member
I did. None of these texts address the OP(, nor do they prove that Jesus is God--that is, unless you're using "God" in a way the Bible does not).
The Trinity is a term describing the God of the Bible, who is One God existing eternally in three distinct Persons: The Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. Although the term “Trinity” is not found in Scripture, it represents the truth of God taught in the Old and New Testaments.

Each Person in the Trinity is co-equal, co-powerful, co-eternal, and divine in nature, yet separate and distinct from one another. The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Yet, they are One God.

Theologian James R. White said, “It is vitally important that we recognize the difference between the words Being and Person. “Being” is what makes something what it is. “Person” is what makes someone who he or she is” (Loving the Trinity, Christian Research Journal, Volume 21, Issue 4).

The use of plural forms of inspired words within Scripture denotes plurality in God since the words imply “more than two.” For example, in Genesis 1:26, 3:22, and 11:7, the Hebrew word for “God” is the plural noun "Elohim." In Isaiah 6:8, the Hebrew word for “Us” is a plural pronoun. The New Testament brings further clarification to God’s Triune Being by identifying the Father as God, the Son as God, and the Holy Spirit as God. The Trinity does not suggest three Gods, but One God in three Persons.

Many attempts have been made to describe the mysterious dynamic of the Trinity in a way human, finite minds can comprehend — but it is impossible to grasp fully. Although certain facts are understood about the relationship between the Members of the Trinity, it is ultimately unfathomable to the human mind. God is endlessly superior to humanity; therefore, people should not expect to understand Him completely.

One helpful analogy allowing individuals to comprehend a few aspects of the Trinity is found in the sun:

  • The earth’s atmosphere contains only one sun. The sun, which has one visible manifestation in the sky, consists of three distinct elements: energy, heat, and light.

  • People cannot see the intense energy of the sun. But without it, life would not exist on earth. Likewise, people cannot see God the Father and live because He lives in unapproachable light. However, without Him, life would not exist (1 Timothy 6:16; Genesis 1 and 2).

  • People cannot see the heat radiating from the sun but can feel its warmth and see its effects upon the earth. Likewise, people cannot see the Holy Spirit but can feel His power and see His effect in believers’ lives (John 3:8).

  • People can see the manifestation of the sun’s invisible elements in the form of an enormous bright light in the sky, held together by its own gravity. Likewise, Jesus Christ is the light of the world (John 8:12), the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15), the radiance of God’s glory, and the exact representation of His nature who upholds all things by the word of His power (Hebrews 1:3).

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three parts of God, making One God. Each Member of the Trinity is fully God, yet One. Such is the mystery of the Godhead.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit.

So why do Trinitarians conclude that both the son and the spirit are also the "one God" when the Bible never expresses this?

Or when the Scriptures tell us explicitly it was the FATHER who said:

So you will know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the Lord your God
And there is no one else.
Joel 2:27
 

jamesh

Active member
Or when the Scriptures tell us explicitly it was the FATHER who said:

So you will know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the Lord your God
And there is no one else.
Joel 2:27
Can you please explain how you know that it was "specifically" God the Father speaking at Joel 2:27? Do you see the word "Father" mentioned in the verse? No, it says "I am the Lord your God."

In Him,
herman
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Can you please explain how you know that it was "specifically" God the Father speaking at Joel 2:27? Do you see the word "Father" mentioned in the verse? No, it says "I am the Lord your God."

In Him,
herman

Because Jesus told us it was the Father who said that.

Do you think his testimony on the matter is trustworthy?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Where?

In Him,
herman


WHO made this promise?
So you will know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God and there is no one else and My people will never be put to shame. “It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.... Joel 2:27-28

15 For these people are not drunk, as you assume, since it is only the third hour of the day; 16 but this is what has been spoken through the prophet Joel: 17 ‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says, ‘That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh...." Acts 2:15-17


4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.... but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and Samaria, and as far as the remotest part of the earth.”

It was the FATHER who made this promise at Joel 2:27-28. And Jesus again tells us it was THE FATHER.

And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.
Luke 24:49

So Jesus tells us plainly it was the Father who made this promise at Joel 2:27-28.

So you will know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God and there is no one else and My people will never be put to shame. “It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.... Joel 2:27-28
 

jamesh

Active member
WHO made this promise?
So you will know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God and there is no one else and My people will never be put to shame. “It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.... Joel 2:27-28

15 For these people are not drunk, as you assume, since it is only the third hour of the day; 16 but this is what has been spoken through the prophet Joel: 17 ‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says, ‘That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh...." Acts 2:15-17


4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.... but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and Samaria, and as far as the remotest part of the earth.”

It was the FATHER who made this promise at Joel 2:27-28. And Jesus again tells us it was THE FATHER.

And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.
Luke 24:49

So Jesus tells us plainly it was the Father who made this promise at Joel 2:27-28.

So you will know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God and there is no one else and My people will never be put to shame. “It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.... Joel 2:27-28
You struck out my friend. The Apostle Peter is the one quoting Joel at Acts 2:15-21. Furthermore, even Peter does not use the word "Father" in those verses. He simply says "God."

Now, having said that I want you to notice two things. Joel 2:32 says, "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered." Peter quotes this verse at Acts 2:21, "And it shall be, That everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Guess who else quotes Joel? The Apostle Paul at Romans 10:9-13, so pay attention! "that if you confess if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; vs10, for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Vs11, For the Scripture says, Whosoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." (Who's the Him?)

Verse 12, For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the SAME Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; Verse 13, for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." So, if Jesus is a man only and not God in flesh per John 1:14 how can He clearly be identified as the Lord and calling upon Him will get you saved?

Last point! Who did Stephen in his dying breath call upon at Acts 7:59-60? I almost forgot, how many Lords do you see in all these verses?

In Him,
herman
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
You struck out my friend. The Apostle Peter is the one quoting Joel at Acts 2:15-21. Furthermore, even Peter does not use the word "Father" in those verses. He simply says "God."

Yeah that`s pretty obvious isn`t it?

Now, having said that I want you to notice two things. Joel 2:32 says, "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered." Peter quotes this verse at Acts 2:21, "And it shall be, That everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Guess who else quotes Joel? The Apostle Paul at Romans 10:9-13, so pay attention! "that if you confess if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; vs10, for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Vs11, For the Scripture says, Whosoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." (Who's the Him?)

Verse 12, For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the SAME Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; Verse 13, for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." So, if Jesus is a man only and not God in flesh per John 1:14 how can He clearly be identified as the Lord and calling upon Him will get you saved?

Last point! Who did Stephen in his dying breath call upon at Acts 7:59-60? I almost forgot, how many Lords do you see in all these verses?

In Him,
herman

Jesus tells us WHO made the following promise. WHO did Jesus say made this promise?

So you will know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God and there is no one else and My people will never be put to shame. “It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.... Joel 2:27-28
 
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