The "One God" of Scripture versus The "One God" of Trinitarianism

The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit.

So why do Trinitarians conclude that both the son and the spirit are also the "one God" when the Bible never expresses this?
 

Kris Jordan

New member
The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit.

So why do Trinitarians conclude that both the son and the spirit are also the "one God" when the Bible never expresses this?
Hi Ongyo,

Trinitarians conclude Jesus is God because the Bible proclaims Him as such:

According to Scripture, Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient. He also received and accepted worship, forgives sin, is the Father’s one and only Son, and is “the First and the Last” of the Old and New Testaments.

Jesus was with the Father “in the beginning.” Everything in creation was made through Him, and without Him, the universe and everything in it would not exist. Subsequently, Jesus became a human being when He left the glory of heaven to be born on the earth. As a man, Jesus never ceased being divine at any time. He was and is the full image and expression of God in human form. In other words, Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh.

Jesus is God’s “only begotten Son.” This classification is significant because it sets Jesus apart as the one and only Son of God, as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). The Greek word for the phrase “only begotten Son” is the word “monogenes,” which has two primary definitions. The first pertains to the only one of its kind or class (“single of its kind, only” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). The second conveys the only one of its kind with regard to their parents (“used of only sons or daughters, viewed in relation to their parents” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). Therefore, as the only begotten Son of God the Father, Jesus did not become God’s Son at His human inception. He is uniquely and eternally the Son who descended from heaven (John 3:13b) to be born on the earth as God manifested in the flesh. This is why, during His baptism and transfiguration, the Father spoke from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”

Another undeniable, straightforward, and irrefutable proclamation by the Father about Jesus’ divinity is found in Hebrews 1:8. He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” If God the Father calls Jesus “God,” how can anyone else claim otherwise?

One more of the Father’s affirmations that Jesus is God occurred at Jesus’ birth when God commanded the angels to worship Him (Hebrews 1:6). This is a compelling declaration because, before Jesus’ birth, God the Father stated in the Ten Commandments, “You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:3-5a). Therefore, by commanding the angels to worship Jesus, God the Father is explicitly and unequivocally confirming that Jesus is God, and, therefore, rightfully worthy of worship.

Additionally, when Jesus was worshiped by others, He did not stop them from doing so like mere men and angels rightly did when others attempted to worship them (Acts 10:25; Acts 14:11-15; Revelation 19:9-10). Neither was Jesus struck dead after accepting worship as Herod was, who was eaten by worms after allowing the people to exclaim his voice was the voice of a God and not a man (Acts 12:21-23). As God, Jesus is entitled to receive worship; therefore, He did not prohibit these individuals from exalting Him nor offend the Father by accepting their praise. Jesus allowed these people to glorify Him as God through their worship and adoration. If He were not divine but merely human in origin, He would have sinned by allowing this behavior, which would contradict multiple verses establishing Jesus’ sinlessness.

Another irrefutable fact that substantiates Jesus’ deity is found in the books of Isaiah and Revelation concerning the title, “the First and the Last.” In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, the title “the First and the Last” strictly refers to Jehovah God, the LORD, who declares that, apart from Him, there is no God. In the New Testament book of Revelation, “the First and the Last” spoke to John while John was exiled on the island of Patmos. His exact words to John were, “I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen” (Revelation 1:17-18). This statement is a direct reference to Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world and was raised to life again. Therefore, “the First and the Last” of the Old Testament is specifically identified as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Here are the Scriptural references for all of this: www.ScriptureSubjects.net/jesus-christ-is-god-scripture-references
 
Hi Ongyo,

Trinitarians conclude Jesus is God because the Bible proclaims Him as such:

According to Scripture, Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient. He also received and accepted worship, forgives sin, is the Father’s one and only Son, and is “the First and the Last” of the Old and New Testaments.
Does it really?
Jesus was with the Father “in the beginning.” Everything in creation was made through Him, and without Him, the universe and everything in it would not exist.
The Bible says "the Word was with God".
Subsequently, Jesus became a human being when He left the glory of heaven to be born on the earth. As a man, Jesus never ceased being divine at any time. He was and is the full image and expression of God in human form. In other words, Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh.
Scripture(s) please.
Jesus is God’s “only begotten Son.” This classification is significant because it sets Jesus apart as the one and only Son of God, as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). The Greek word for the phrase “only begotten Son” is the word “monogenes,” which has two primary definitions. The first pertains to the only one of its kind or class (“single of its kind, only” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). The second conveys the only one of its kind with regard to their parents (“used of only sons or daughters, viewed in relation to their parents” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). Therefore, as the only begotten Son of God the Father, Jesus did not become God’s Son at His human inception. He is uniquely and eternally the Son who descended from heaven (John 3:13b) to be born on the earth as God manifested in the flesh. This is why, during His baptism and transfiguration, the Father spoke from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”
Again, this doesn't help your case because this shows that Jesus is--not God, but--the son of God.
Another undeniable, straightforward, and irrefutable proclamation by the Father about Jesus’ divinity is found in Hebrews 1:8. He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” If God the Father calls Jesus “God,” how can anyone else claim otherwise?
I address this here.
One more of the Father’s affirmations that Jesus is God occurred at Jesus’ birth when God commanded the angels to worship Him (Hebrews 1:6). This is a compelling declaration because, before Jesus’ birth, God the Father stated in the Ten Commandments, “You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:3-5a). Therefore, by commanding the angels to worship Jesus, God the Father is explicitly and unequivocally confirming that Jesus is God, and, therefore, rightfully worthy of worship.
If Jesus were God, God wouldn't need to say: "let all of the messengers of God render him PRROSKUNEW".
Additionally, when Jesus was worshiped by others, He did not stop them from doing so like mere men and angels rightly did when others attempted to worship them (Acts 10:25; Acts 14:11-15; Revelation 19:9-10). Neither was Jesus struck dead after accepting worship as Herod was, who was eaten by worms after allowing the people to exclaim his voice was the voice of a God and not a man (Acts 12:21-23). As God, Jesus is entitled to receive worship; therefore, He did not prohibit these individuals from exalting Him nor offend the Father by accepting their praise. Jesus allowed these people to glorify Him as God through their worship and adoration. If He were not divine but merely human in origin, He would have sinned by allowing this behavior, which would contradict multiple verses establishing Jesus’ sinlessness.
1 Chronicles 29:20; Revelation 3:9.
Another irrefutable fact that substantiates Jesus’ deity is found in the books of Isaiah and Revelation concerning the title, “the First and the Last.” In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, the title “the First and the Last” strictly refers to Jehovah God, the LORD, who declares that, apart from Him, there is no God. In the New Testament book of Revelation, “the First and the Last” spoke to John while John was exiled on the island of Patmos. His exact words to John were, “I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen” (Revelation 1:17-18). This statement is a direct reference to Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world and was raised to life again. Therefore, “the First and the Last” of the Old Testament is specifically identified as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.
You've demonstrated that Jesus is first and last with regards his death and resurrection: "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore) while God his Father is "first and last" with regards His Godship: "I am the first and the last, and apart from Me there is no God".

Clearly two persons having the same title doesn't make them the same entity.
While I could address all of the scriptures in this link, none of this shows that Christ is referred to as the "one God".
 
Trinitarians conclude Jesus is God because the Bible proclaims Him as such:

According to Scripture, Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient. He also received and accepted worship, forgives sin, is the Father’s one and only Son, and is “the First and the Last” of the Old and New Testaments.

As you point out...

When Trinitarians say “Jesus is God” they mean “Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient.”

In other words, in the phrase "Jesus is God", Trinitarians say the word "God" refers to ATTRIBUTES rather than to a BEING or to a PERSON.

Whereas when I say "Jesus is God", I mean "Jesus is Yahweh" (a BEING / PERSON and not just ATTRIBUTES).

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

herman

Member
Does it really?

The Bible says "the Word was with God".

Scripture(s) please.

Again, this doesn't help your case because this shows that Jesus is--not God, but--the son of God.

I address this here.

If Jesus were God, God wouldn't need to say: "let all of the messengers of God render him PRROSKUNEW".

1 Chronicles 29:20; Revelation 3:9.

You've demonstrated that Jesus is first and last with regards his death and resurrection: "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore) while God his Father is "first and last" with regards His Godship: "I am the first and the last, and apart from Me there is no God".

Clearly two persons having the same title doesn't make them the same entity.

While I could address all of the scriptures in this link, none of this shows that Christ is referred to as the "one God".
Yes, really! I see you conveniently left out from John 1:1, "and the Word was God." Why is that? And what was the purpose of your JW organization changing the meaning of John 1:1 "and the Word was a god?" Since as you specially stated in your opening thread, "The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit." then please tell us all here who is "a god?" Whoever you choose to name as "a god" would there not be more than one God according to your theology? In other words, in what sense is this "a god" a god in the first place?

And btw, the Holy Spirit is identified as God at Acts 5:3-4. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? Vs4, While it remained unsold did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God."

So let's do the JW version of this verse. "Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the ACTIVE FORCE? Or, "Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, BUT TO GOD'S ACTIVE FORCE." An active force does not have "personality" and an active force is not a person. The Holy Spirit does have personality and is the third person of the Trinity.

Finally, I don't need to list the multiple verses that identify "clearly" that Jesus Christ is God. I also know your claim that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God." Since that is true then explain what it means that Jesus Christ is the "Son of man?" If this idiom means Jesus is a man then the "Son of God" idiom means Jesus is God. If you want I can explain it all to you by just going to the trial of Jesus at Matthew 26.

IN HIM,
herman
 
Yes, really! I see you conveniently left out from John 1:1, "and the Word was God." Why is that? And what was the purpose of your JW organization changing the meaning of John 1:1 "and the Word was a god?"
Notice that the OP states (in part):

The term "one God" is used in the Bible...
If you can find the phrase "one God" in John 1:1, let me know.
Since as you specially stated in your opening thread, "The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit." then please tell us all here who is "a god?" Whoever you choose to name as "a god" would there not be more than one God according to your theology? In other words, in what sense is this "a god" a god in the first place?
I've addressed this here.
And btw, the Holy Spirit is identified as God at Acts 5:3-4. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? Vs4, While it remained unsold did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God."
So let's do the JW version of this verse. "Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the ACTIVE FORCE? Or, "Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, BUT TO GOD'S ACTIVE FORCE." An active force does not have "personality" and an active force is not a person. The Holy Spirit does have personality and is the third person of the Trinity.
Acts 5:3-4 carries the same connotation as 1 Thessalonians 4:8.

(Note also that the holy spirit is God's--not God. IOW, it is His--not Him.)
Finally, I don't need to list the multiple verses that identify "clearly" that Jesus Christ is God. I also know your claim that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God." Since that is true then explain what it means that Jesus Christ is the "Son of man?" If this idiom means Jesus is a man then the "Son of God" idiom means Jesus is God. If you want I can explain it all to you by just going to the trial of Jesus at Matthew 26.

IN HIM,
herman
Even if one believes "son of man" is an idiom meaning "man", this would not work for "son of God" since "God" the name of Jesus' Father as referenced in his genealogical records (Luke 3:38).

So, if you believe "son of God" makes one God, you must also believe that:

"son of Enos" makes one Enos,
"son of Seth" makes one Seth, and
"son of Adam" makes one Adam.
 
Yes, really! I see you conveniently left out from John 1:1, "and the Word was God." Why is that? And what was the purpose of your JW organization changing the meaning of John 1:1 "and the Word was a god?" Since as you specially stated in your opening thread, "The term "one God" is used in the Bible, but is never used in reference to either the son or the holy spirit." then please tell us all here who is "a god?" Whoever you choose to name as "a god" would there not be more than one God according to your theology? In other words, in what sense is this "a god" a god in the first place?

And btw, the Holy Spirit is identified as God at Acts 5:3-4. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? Vs4, While it remained unsold did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God."

So let's do the JW version of this verse. "Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the ACTIVE FORCE? Or, "Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, BUT TO GOD'S ACTIVE FORCE." An active force does not have "personality" and an active force is not a person. The Holy Spirit does have personality and is the third person of the Trinity.

Finally, I don't need to list the multiple verses that identify "clearly" that Jesus Christ is God. I also know your claim that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God." Since that is true then explain what it means that Jesus Christ is the "Son of man?" If this idiom means Jesus is a man then the "Son of God" idiom means Jesus is God. If you want I can explain it all to you by just going to the trial of Jesus at Matthew 26.

IN HIM,
herman

So your argument is that "son of man" means Jesus is a man then "son of David" means Jesus is David?

Also, believers are begotten sons of God. Now what?
 
Hi Ongyo,

Trinitarians conclude Jesus is God because the Bible proclaims Him as such:

According to Scripture, Jesus is eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, self-existent, and self-sufficient. He also received and accepted worship, forgives sin, is the Father’s one and only Son, and is “the First and the Last” of the Old and New Testaments.

Jesus was with the Father “in the beginning.” Everything in creation was made through Him, and without Him, the universe and everything in it would not exist. Subsequently, Jesus became a human being when He left the glory of heaven to be born on the earth. As a man, Jesus never ceased being divine at any time. He was and is the full image and expression of God in human form. In other words, Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh.

Since you do not seem to be referring to Jesus of Nazareth's God, can you please unambiguously define the word "God" in the above statement?

Jesus is God’s “only begotten Son.” This classification is significant because it sets Jesus apart as the one and only Son of God, as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5).

Are you confessing that you are not begotten of God?

Did you not know that every firstborn child is an only begotten child.... at least until another children is begotten.

The Greek word for the phrase “only begotten Son” is the word “monogenes,” which has two primary definitions. The first pertains to the only one of its kind or class (“single of its kind, only” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). The second conveys the only one of its kind with regard to their parents (“used of only sons or daughters, viewed in relation to their parents” — Strong’s Greek Lexicon). Therefore, as the only begotten Son of God the Father, Jesus did not become God’s Son at His human inception. He is uniquely and eternally the Son who descended from heaven (John 3:13b) to be born on the earth as God manifested in the flesh. This is why, during His baptism and transfiguration, the Father spoke from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.”

Another undeniable, straightforward, and irrefutable proclamation by the Father about Jesus’ divinity is found in Hebrews 1:8. He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” If God the Father calls Jesus “God,” how can anyone else claim otherwise?

8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

Have you ever noticed the situation you have yourself in? God says to God that God's God rewarded God for good behavior by God's God exalting God to be above God's peers. See anything wrong there maybe?


One more of the Father’s affirmations that Jesus is God occurred at Jesus’ birth when God commanded the angels to worship Him (Hebrews 1:6).

At Hebrews 1:6, the Hebrews writer is referring to the "world to come." He explicitly tells us this.

This is a compelling declaration because, before Jesus’ birth, God the Father stated in the Ten Commandments, “You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:3-5a). Therefore, by commanding the angels to worship Jesus, God the Father is explicitly and unequivocally confirming that Jesus is God, and, therefore, rightfully worthy of worship.

What do you mean by the English word "worship"? For example, the same Greek word is used here:

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and worship before your feet, and make them know that I have loved you. Revelation 3:9

And here:

And David said to the whole congregation, Bless the Lord our God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and they bowed the knee and worshipped the Lord and the king. 1 Chronicles 29:20 LXX

Additionally, when Jesus was worshiped by others, He did not stop them from doing so like mere men and angels rightly did when others attempted to worship them (Acts 10:25; Acts 14:11-15; Revelation 19:9-10). Neither was Jesus struck dead after accepting worship as Herod was, who was eaten by worms after allowing the people to exclaim his voice was the voice of a God and not a man (Acts 12:21-23). As God, Jesus is entitled to receive worship; therefore, He did not prohibit these individuals from exalting Him nor offend the Father by accepting their praise. Jesus allowed these people to glorify Him as God through their worship and adoration. If He were not divine but merely human in origin, He would have sinned by allowing this behavior, which would contradict multiple verses establishing Jesus’ sinlessness.

Another irrefutable fact that substantiates Jesus’ deity is found in the books of Isaiah and Revelation concerning the title, “the First and the Last.” In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, the title “the First and the Last” strictly refers to Jehovah God, the LORD, who declares that, apart from Him, there is no God.

Have you ever asked yourself if the Bible ever specifically identifies the speaker of these words?

In the New Testament book of Revelation, “the First and the Last” spoke to John while John was exiled on the island of Patmos. His exact words to John were, “I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen” (Revelation 1:17-18). This statement is a direct reference to Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world and was raised to life again. Therefore, “the First and the Last” of the Old Testament is specifically identified as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Here are the Scriptural references for all of this: www.ScriptureSubjects.net/jesus-christ-is-god-scripture-references

You seem to be arguing that "First/Last" is an attribute of the divine name of the Trinitarian God the Son.

So...... Yahweh God was dead?
 

Kris Jordan

New member
Does it really?

The Bible says "the Word was with God".


Scripture(s) please.

Again, this doesn't help your case because this shows that Jesus is--not God, but--the son of God.

I address this here.

If Jesus were God, God wouldn't need to say: "let all of the messengers of God render him PRROSKUNEW".

1 Chronicles 29:20; Revelation 3:9.

You've demonstrated that Jesus is first and last with regards his death and resurrection: "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore) while God his Father is "first and last" with regards His Godship: "I am the first and the last, and apart from Me there is no God".

Clearly two persons having the same title doesn't make them the same entity.

While I could address all of the scriptures in this link, none of this shows that Christ is referred to as the "one God".

Hi Ongyo,

The answer to your questions are in the link I gave you. See the Scripture References section. :)
 
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