The One Only True Church..

Richard7

Well-known member
One Church was set up during Christ's Ministry. Why todays Christians Christian religion have thousands of Churches? What does the Bible say?

Ephesians 4:5-6

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
One Church was set up during Christ's Ministry. Why todays Christians Christian religion have thousands of Churches? What does the Bible say?

Ephesians 4:5-6

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

That's actually a good question, one which has many answers.
But unfortunately for you, it is OFF-TOPIC for this forum.
And yes, I realize that all you want to do is attack Christian churches and run away from defending Mormonism.
But if you ask your question in an appropriate forum, I'm sure someone will answer your question.

But to make your question more APPROPRIATE for this forum, let's ask this instead:

Why does today's Mormon religion have so many hundreds of different denominations today?
God is not the God of confusion, after all!
 

Richard7

Well-known member
That's actually a good question, one which has many answers.
But unfortunately for you, it is OFF-TOPIC for this forum.
And yes, I realize that all you want to do is attack Christian churches and run away from defending Mormonism.
But if you ask your question in an appropriate forum, I'm sure someone will answer your question.

But to make your question more APPROPRIATE for this forum, let's ask this instead:

Why does today's Mormon religion have so many hundreds of different denominations today?
God is not the God of confusion, after all!
Amazing, I actually got a compliment from Theo.. thanks good buddy! Since I asked the question and you fled, say what? oh yea... you lose again.
 

The Prophet

Active member
One Church was set up during Christ's Ministry. Why todays Christians Christian religion have thousands of Churches? What does the Bible say?

Ephesians 4:5-6

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
:) Actually don't see baptism mentioned in these verses :)

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

E. Calvin Beisner

God in Three Persons

The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

The doctrine of the incarnation----- that the Son of God, the Word ( John 1:1 ) became man ( John ; Rom. 1:3 ) uniting in the single person of the Son two distinct and complete natures, diety and humanity.

The sinless of Christ---- that he lived as the perfect man to fulfill God’s plan for all humanity. ( Heb 2:6-18; 4:14, 15 )

The sacrificial death of Christ---- to atone for sins of all men ( 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:; Matt 20:28; 1 Cor 6:20 )

The resurrection of Christ---- that after his death, Christ rose bodily from the grave, showing his triumph over sin and death, as the first fruit, and hence the promise, of resurrection to all who have faith in him ( 1 ; Rom 6:3-11 )

Salvation by Grace through Faith--- that justification before God, and hence salvation from punishment and life with God, are available only as a gift from God through faith in Jesus Christ ( John 14:6; 3:16 Acts 4:10; John 8:24 ) pp 19-20

When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

The Nicene Creed can be found verbatim in D&C 20:17-28
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Richard7 said:
One Church was set up during Christ's Ministry. Why todays Christians Christian religion have thousands of Churches? What does the Bible say?

Ephesians 4:5-6

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Prophet said-- Actually don't see baptism mentioned in these verses


I highlighted it in red for you.
 

Richard7

Well-known member
:) Actually don't see baptism mentioned in these verses :)

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

E. Calvin Beisner

God in Three Persons

The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

The doctrine of the incarnation----- that the Son of God, the Word ( John 1:1 ) became man ( John ; Rom. 1:3 ) uniting in the single person of the Son two distinct and complete natures, diety and humanity.

The sinless of Christ---- that he lived as the perfect man to fulfill God’s plan for all humanity. ( Heb 2:6-18; 4:14, 15 )

The sacrificial death of Christ---- to atone for sins of all men ( 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:; Matt 20:28; 1 Cor 6:20 )

The resurrection of Christ---- that after his death, Christ rose bodily from the grave, showing his triumph over sin and death, as the first fruit, and hence the promise, of resurrection to all who have faith in him ( 1 ; Rom 6:3-11 )

Salvation by Grace through Faith--- that justification before God, and hence salvation from punishment and life with God, are available only as a gift from God through faith in Jesus Christ ( John 14:6; 3:16 Acts 4:10; John 8:24 ) pp 19-20

When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24

“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

The Nicene Creed can be found verbatim in D&C 20:17-28
This is a bit of a straw-man issue... where you claimed, "The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines"

You know that this not true, you need to research your history and not make such a claim as "throughout History"
 

CrowCross

Super Member
One Church was set up during Christ's Ministry. Why todays Christians Christian religion have thousands of Churches? What does the Bible say?
Why does Revelation mention SEVEN Churches?

Why do Mormons claim that you MUST be baptised by a recognized Mormon priest in order to be saved?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Richard7 said:
One Church was set up during Christ's Ministry. Why todays Christians Christian religion have thousands of Churches? What does the Bible say?

Ephesians 4:5-6

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.



I highlighted it in red for you.
That explains a lot, doesn't it?
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Why does Revelation mention SEVEN Churches?

Why do Mormons claim that you MUST be baptised by a recognized Mormon priest in order to be saved?

Revelation 1:12, 20. What Is the Symbolism of the Seven Candlesticks?​

The imagery of the “seven golden candlesticks” (Revelation 1:12, 20) recalls the seven-branched menorah found in the Jerusalem temple. These candlesticks represented the seven churches. They were established to give light to the world, just as the Savior had commanded His disciples to do (see Matthew 5:15–16).

Elder Bruce R. McConkie noted: “Candlesticks carry light; they do not create it. Their function is to make it available, not to bring it into being. So by using seven candlesticks to portray the seven churches to whom John is now to give counsel, the Lord is showing that his congregations on earth are to carry his light to the world. Christ is the Light of the world. (John 8:12.) ‘Hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do.’ (3 Ne. 18:24; Matt. 5:14–16.)” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:442).

 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
This is a bit of a straw-man issue... where you claimed, "The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines"

You know that this not true, you need to research your history and not make such a claim as "throughout History"
He may have meant, "Christian churches". But still, that statement says a lot. It points to an obvious effort to promote self-serving ideologies while completely ignoring the scriptures. It makes me wonder why the Catholic church started accepting baptisms from other religions as valid. That seem to be a complete contradiction from their own doctrine, not to mention the Bible.
 

CrowCross

Super Member

Revelation 1:12, 20. What Is the Symbolism of the Seven Candlesticks?​

The imagery of the “seven golden candlesticks” (Revelation 1:12, 20) recalls the seven-branched menorah found in the Jerusalem temple. These candlesticks represented the seven churches. They were established to give light to the world, just as the Savior had commanded His disciples to do (see Matthew 5:15–16).

Elder Bruce R. McConkie noted: “Candlesticks carry light; they do not create it. Their function is to make it available, not to bring it into being. So by using seven candlesticks to portray the seven churches to whom John is now to give counsel, the Lord is showing that his congregations on earth are to carry his light to the world. Christ is the Light of the world. (John 8:12.) ‘Hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do.’ (3 Ne. 18:24; Matt. 5:14–16.)” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:442).

Why do Mormons claim that you MUST be baptised by a recognized Mormon priest in order to be saved?
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Why do Mormons claim that you MUST be baptised by a recognized Mormon priest in order to be saved?
Recognized? sure the Bishop is responsible for making sure that all involved are both worthy and have the Proper Priesthood conferred upon them. The question you should ask, why did Christ go to John the Baptist... Because Christ recognized John had the Aaronic Priesthood and had authority to baptize..
 

CrowCross

Super Member
No it's not. Those who have separated are not part of the one true church. Period.
Mormons don't represent Jesus Christ.
Recognized? sure the Bishop is responsible for making sure that all involved are both worthy and have the Proper Priesthood conferred upon them. The question you should ask, why did Christ go to John the Baptist... Because Christ recognized John had the Aaronic Priesthood and had authority to baptize..
So, what you said is this.....if you're not a baptized mormon...there is no chance of salvation for you.
 

The Prophet

Active member

Revelation 1:12, 20. What Is the Symbolism of the Seven Candlesticks?​

The imagery of the “seven golden candlesticks” (Revelation 1:12, 20) recalls the seven-branched menorah found in the Jerusalem temple. These candlesticks represented the seven churches. They were established to give light to the world, just as the Savior had commanded His disciples to do (see Matthew 5:15–16).

Elder Bruce R. McConkie noted: “Candlesticks carry light; they do not create it. Their function is to make it available, not to bring it into being. So by using seven candlesticks to portray the seven churches to whom John is now to give counsel, the Lord is showing that his congregations on earth are to carry his light to the world. Christ is the Light of the world. (John 8:12.) ‘Hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do.’ (3 Ne. 18:24; Matt. 5:14–16.)” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:442).

Why would we believe Bruce R McConkie when Romney and Peterson said there were over 1000 doctrinal mistakes in his book called Mormon Doctrine :)

"Jan 7-8, 1960 - First Presidency decides that Bruce R. McConkie’s Mormon Doctrine “must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation.” They are exasperated that McConkie and his publisher released the book without pre-publication publicity or notifying First Presidency. Even his father-in-law, senior apostle, Joseph Fielding Smith, “did not know anything about it until it was published.” This is McConkie’s way to avoid repetition of Presidency’s stopping his pre-announced Sound Doctrine three years earlier.

Committee of two apostles (Mark E Petersen and Marion G Romney) reports that McConkie’s Mormon Doctrine contains 1,067 doctrinal errors. For example, page 493 said: “Those who falsely and erroneously suppose that God is progressing in knowledge and gaining new truths cannot exercise sufficient faith in him to gain salvation until they divest themselves of their false beliefs.” However, McConkie is affirming doctrine of omniscience officially condemned by previous First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in 1865.”
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Mormons don't represent Jesus Christ.

So, what you said is this.....if you're not a baptized mormon...there is no chance of salvation for you.
Well first of all we do not baptize anyone under Mormon or Mormons... the verbiage is as follows, "Name of person... Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Ghost, ...

And again, we never have claimed there is not salvation for other people outside the Church. Specially you have to be baptized to received Eternal Life in the Celestial Kingdom...
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Romney and Peterson said there were over 1000 doctrin
Why would we believe Bruce R McConkie when Romney and Peterson said there were over 1000 doctrinal mistakes in his book called Mormon Doctrine :)

"Jan 7-8, 1960 - First Presidency decides that Bruce R. McConkie’s Mormon Doctrine “must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation.” They are exasperated that McConkie and his publisher released the book without pre-publication publicity or notifying First Presidency. Even his father-in-law, senior apostle, Joseph Fielding Smith, “did not know anything about it until it was published.” This is McConkie’s way to avoid repetition of Presidency’s stopping his pre-announced Sound Doctrine three years earlier.

Committee of two apostles (Mark E Petersen and Marion G Romney) reports that McConkie’s Mormon Doctrine contains 1,067 doctrinal errors. For example, page 493 said: “Those who falsely and erroneously suppose that God is progressing in knowledge and gaining new truths cannot exercise sufficient faith in him to gain salvation until they divest themselves of their false beliefs.” However, McConkie is affirming doctrine of omniscience officially condemned by previous First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in 1865.”
That is their opinion... do you even know what the Book written by McConkie is? It's not part of any of our apporved cannon of scripture...meaning, the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and D&C.... The book it self is not Doctrine.

Bruce Redd McConkie
(July 29, 1915—April 19, 1985) was an influential Apostle of the Church. He is remembered by the many doctrinal books he wrote, such as Mormon Doctrine and The Messiah Series, and for writing the chapter headings for the Standard Works. Mormon Doctrine, published in 1958, was a first attempt to compile the doctrines of the Church into a single, comprehensive volume, and it was solely Elder McConkie's work. However, the tone of the book was extremely authoritative, and though some of the doctrines presented were not approved by the First Presidency, the book was popular and looked upon as authoritative by members of the Church. The First Presidency oversaw revisions to the book, at first reluctant to republish it in any form.
Mormon Wiki
 

The Prophet

Active member
That is their opinion... do you even know what the Book written by McConkie is? It's not part of any of our apporved cannon of scripture...meaning, the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and D&C.... The book it self is not Doctrine.

Bruce Redd McConkie
(July 29, 1915—April 19, 1985) was an influential Apostle of the Church. He is remembered by the many doctrinal books he wrote, such as Mormon Doctrine and The Messiah Series, and for writing the chapter headings for the Standard Works. Mormon Doctrine, published in 1958, was a first attempt to compile the doctrines of the Church into a single, comprehensive volume, and it was solely Elder McConkie's work. However, the tone of the book was extremely authoritative, and though some of the doctrines presented were not approved by the First Presidency, the book was popular and looked upon as authoritative by members of the Church. The First Presidency oversaw revisions to the book, at first reluctant to republish it in any form.
Mormon Wiki
You just proved this Youtube Richard7 :)

 

CrowCross

Super Member
Well first of all we do not baptize anyone under Mormon or Mormons... the verbiage is as follows, "Name of person... Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Ghost, ...

And again, we never have claimed there is not salvation for other people outside the Church. Specially you have to be baptized to received Eternal Life in the Celestial Kingdom...
STOP WITH THE HALF TRUTHS ALREADY. Sheeze... According to mormonism only a recognized Mormon priest can baptize. The following information is taken from a LDS site.

  1. All ordinances must be performed by the authority of the priesthood. Only brethren who hold the necessary priesthood and are worthy should perform or stand in the circle for an ordinance.

Baptism​

The ordinance of baptism is performed only by a worthy priest or Melchizedek Priesthood holder under the direction of the presiding authority. The priesthood holder:

  1. Stands in the water with the person to be baptized.
  2. (For convenience and safety) holds the person’s right wrist with his left hand; the person being baptized holds the priesthood holder’s left wrist with his or her left hand.
  3. Raises his right arm to the square.
  4. States the person’s full name and says, “Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen” (D&C 20:73).
  5. Has the person hold his or her nose with the right hand (for convenience); then the priesthood holder places his right hand high on the person’s back and immerses the person completely, including the person’s clothing.
  6. Helps the person come up out of the water.
Each baptism must be witnessed by two priests or Melchizedek Priesthood holders, who make sure it is performed properly. The baptism must be repeated if the prayer was not stated accurately or if part of the body or clothing of the person being baptized was not immersed completely.
 
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