Rachel Redux
Well-known member
Well, Messianics observe the Sabbath, would never say the Law is done away with, would never call all foods clean, etc.
the original Messianic Judaism?
- Thread starter American Gothic
- Start date
American Gothic
Well-known member
just as there exists different theological strands within "Christianity" and the possibility they might diminish the Jewish context of the scriptures
some Jewish believers might overemphasize Mosaic covenant or hang on to Pharisaic leanings within "Messianism"
American Gothic
Well-known member
does the Bible call those in Jesus "Christians"? or even "Messianics"?
Rachel Redux
Well-known member
Are you saying there's no difference between Christians and those who call themselves Messianic?
American Gothic
Well-known member
oh there are outlook and cultural and activity differences alright
but at it's base I see two kinds of people in the Bible - nonbelievers and Believers
Rachel Redux
Well-known member
Yes, that's true but where Arnold is concerned, I think people expect him to be a Messianic teacher and I don't think he really is.
American Gothic
Well-known member
because He doesn't teach people to observe the Mosaic law? or that those in Jesus are under a New law?
"The Law of Messiah is far more difficult to systematize in that it deals not only with actions and behavior, but with the intent of the heart and attitudes. Consider the Law of Messiah to be every propositional directive contained within the New Testament. In other words, the Law of Messiah is quite simply defined as divinely revealed apostolic teaching. That is the only source you need. There is a great deal of overlap between the Laws of Moses and Messiah, but they diverge in many places. We would expect such a large amount of overlap, particularly in those areas that reflect the righteous conduct required by a righteous God of His people.
No one (sh)ould accuse us of being anti-law. I think that you will find the Law of Messiah is far more morally stringent and challenging than is the Law of Moses."
- Ariel Q&A "...(trying) to find a developed and systematic version for the Law of Messiah(Law of Christ),.."
"the Law of Moses has become inoperative" (I don't see that as saying it no longer has any use or value)
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Rachel Redux
Well-known member
Well...if I'm not mistaken, I heard him say that eating "clean" is not necessary, which I disagree with. I don't believe God gave these rules arbitrarily. He sounds very mainstream to me. Like he wants to make Jews abandon Jesus for Paul. I just don't like his teaching.
Jesus never told anyone to toss the Law out like a dirty rag. Fruchtenbaum teaches Paul. Jesus hardly figures in.
American Gothic
Well-known member
what is "eating clean"? does Kosher mean "not dirty"?
what was the purpose of the allowed and not allowed (for Israel) foods?
what would be the purpose today (since the Messiah already died)?
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Rachel Redux
Well-known member
Eating Biblically clean means not eating things God said not to eat. (I think you knew that.) It has nothing to do with ritual added by Pharisees or Rabbis. Kosher has to do with pots, pans, dishes, utensils, etc and not even being able to eat a cheeseburger. (I think you knew that, too.)
The purpose of food laws was to set God's obedient apart from the rest of the world. I don't know about you but I believe I'm supposed to be set apart too, and grafted in to the root, Yeshua.
Also, there's a perfectly good health reason to eat Biblically clean.
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davbeh2010
Active member
One is mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. (i.e. Matthew 22:29) (i.e. Open Heart says - " ...when we in fact know that Jesus cannot possibly be the messiah since he did not fulfill the prophecies")
When, in fact, I know that Jesus is Messiah (Matthew 16:16), and that Jesus is a True Prophet fulfilling Messianic prophecies - including, but not limited to - Messiah's Resurrection prophecies. (i.e. Reference: Key of David illustrations)
(Key of David illustrations - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-vRZXXbDELqfrMOM1aGgVH9icPmPgpIx/view)
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Footnote: [a] training, discipline
In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
American Gothic
Well-known member
"Foods that may be consumed according to halakha (Jewish law) are termed kosher (/ˈkoʊʃər/) in English, from the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the Hebrew term kashér (כָּשֵׁר), meaning "fit" (in this context, fit for consumption)." - Wikipedia
I view this ("kosher") just as meaning "acceptable" or "not acceptable"
and yeah, a lot of ritual was over time added around that
It set Israelites apart from the gentles, as did the whole Law in general
IMV to keep gentiles apart from the promises of blessings...for a time
(they would eventually get blessed by being brought near, thru Messiah, but separation was ended in some significant way)
I think you are grafted in
would you go into a not set apart in your way person's house and eat with them?
there might be some
and if someone wants to use the Mosaic law as a guide on things, they are free to do so
there is some stuff in the Scrolls about the Law allowed and not allowed foods, and their representative typology
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American Gothic
Well-known member
In my view, the 14th of Nisan always falls on the 3rd day of the week (this differs from todays Judaism)
the 15th is the 4th day of the week (this day Messiah died- first day of week of unleavened bread Matthew 26)
then 5th, 6th, and 7th
and He was found risen on the 1st day of the new week
the second 1st or "8th day" in some ways represents a new beginning
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Open Heart
Well-known member
There is no prophecy of the Messiah resurrecting (unless you mean the general resurrection of all the dead).
Rachel Redux
Well-known member
Of course...I do it all the time. But I still don't eat pork, shellfish, etc. My family and friends know I don't eat these things. If they don't have food I can eat, I just eat vegetables.
American Gothic
Well-known member
some recent episodes of PW -
first one a sort of recap of familiar stuff
second one a subject I find interesting
first one a sort of recap of familiar stuff
second one a subject I find interesting
American Gothic
Well-known member
chosen 3 has started -
will the magic continue?
will it live up to the Hype?
we shall see...
will the magic continue?
will it live up to the Hype?
we shall see...
American Gothic
Well-known member
gentiles are gentiles, Jews are Jews
both can have a Jewish faith by believing and trusting the Jewish Messiah/the correct New Testament
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Open Heart
Well-known member
When Christianity first started, it was a Jewish sect, the Nozrim or Nazarenes. But that is not what it stayed. Two factors made Christianity into a Gentile faith by the second century.
The first was the zillions of Gentile converts that were made, who remained God fearers rather than became Jews, largely due to the missionary activities of Paul. The small Jewish church in Jerusalem was overwhelmed by this influx of Gentiles, who brought their Greek culture in with them.
The second was that the Rabbis, in the late first century, cleaned house of a great many heresies. Along with other sects deemed heretical, the Christian Jews were kicked out of the synagogues.
By the second century, far from being a Jewish sect, Christianity and Judaism had become hostile enemies, as we see in the Dialogues between Justin Martyr and Trypho.
There is no going back. The Messianic movement is a theologically Christian movement, not a Judaism movement, despite all their protests to the contrary. It is a movement flooded with Gentiles -- most congregants are Messianic Gentiles, not Messianic Jews. You really have to ask yourself, can you call it Messianic Judaism when there are almost no Jews involved?
American Gothic
Well-known member
so you didn't actually watch the video...(?)