Rachel Redux
Well-known member
Well, Messianics observe the Sabbath, would never say the Law is done away with, would never call all foods clean, etc.how do you view the difference?
Well, Messianics observe the Sabbath, would never say the Law is done away with, would never call all foods clean, etc.how do you view the difference?
just as there exists different theological strands within "Christianity" and the possibility they might diminish the Jewish context of the scripturesWell, Messianics observe the Sabbath, would never say the Law is done away with, would never call all foods clean, etc.
Are you saying there's no difference between Christians and those who call themselves Messianic?does the Bible call those in Jesus "Christians"? or even "Messianics"?
oh there are outlook and cultural and activity differences alrightAre you saying there's no difference between Christians and those who call themselves Messianic?
Yes, that's true but where Arnold is concerned, I think people expect him to be a Messianic teacher and I don't think he really is.oh there are outlook and cultural and activity differences alright
but at it's base I see two kinds of people in the Bible - nonbelievers and Believers
because He doesn't teach people to observe the Mosaic law? or that those in Jesus are under a New law?Yes, that's true but where Arnold is concerned, I think people expect him to be a Messianic teacher and I don't think he really is.
Well...if I'm not mistaken, I heard him say that eating "clean" is not necessary, which I disagree with. I don't believe God gave these rules arbitrarily. He sounds very mainstream to me. Like he wants to make Jews abandon Jesus for Paul. I just don't like his teaching.because He doesn't teach people to observe the Mosaic law? or that those in Jesus are under a New law?
"The Law of Messiah is far more difficult to systematize in that it deals not only with actions and behavior, but with the intent of the heart and attitudes. Consider the Law of Messiah to be every propositional directive contained within the New Testament. In other words, the Law of Messiah is quite simply defined as divinely revealed apostolic teaching. That is the only source you need. There is a great deal of overlap between the Laws of Moses and Messiah, but they diverge in many places. We would expect such a large amount of overlap, particularly in those areas that reflect the righteous conduct required by a righteous God of His people.
No one (sh)ould accuse us of being anti-law. I think that you will find the Law of Messiah is far more morally stringent and challenging than is the Law of Moses."
- Ariel Q&A "...(trying) to find a developed and systematic version for the Law of Messiah(Law of Christ),.."
"the Law of Moses has become inoperative" (I don't see that as saying it no longer has any use or value)
what is "eating clean"? does Kosher mean "not dirty"?Well...if I'm not mistaken, I heard him say that eating "clean" is not necessary, which I disagree with. I don't believe God gave these rules arbitrarily. He sounds very mainstream to me. Like he wants to make Jews abandon Jesus for Paul. I just don't like his teaching.
Jesus never told anyone to toss the Law out like a dirty rag. Fruchtenbaum teaches Paul. Jesus hardly figures in.
Eating Biblically clean means not eating things God said not to eat. (I think you knew that.) It has nothing to do with ritual added by Pharisees or Rabbis. Kosher has to do with pots, pans, dishes, utensils, etc and not even being able to eat a cheeseburger. (I think you knew that, too.)what is "eating clean"? does Kosher mean "not dirty"?
what was the purpose of the allowed and not
allowed (for Israel) foods?
what would be the purpose today (since the Messiah already died)?
Sorry, but I reject not only Paul, but your entire New Testament. Not only does is quote the Tanakh out of context, mistranslate, misquote, and refer to prophecies that don't even exist, but its essential message of salvation through belief contradicts the essential message of obedience in the Tanakh. It also presents Jesus as the messiah, when we in fact know that Jesus cannot possibly be the messiah since he did not fulfill the prophecies. IOW, if you believe in the Tanakh, you cannot also believe in the New Testament.
"Foods that may be consumed according to halakha (Jewish law) are termed kosher (/ˈkoʊʃər/) in English, from the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the Hebrew term kashér (כָּשֵׁר), meaning "fit" (in this context, fit for consumption)." - WikipediaEating Biblically clean means not eating things God said not to eat. It has nothing to do with ritual added by Pharisees or Rabbis. Kosher has to do with pots, pans, dishes, utensils, etc and not even being able to eat a cheeseburger.
It set Israelites apart from the gentles, as did the whole Law in generalThe purpose of food laws was to set God's obedient apart from the rest of the world.
I think you are grafted inI don't know about you but I believe I'm supposed to be set apart too, and grafted in to the root, Yeshua.
there might be someAlso, there's a perfectly good health reason to
there is some stuff in the Scrolls about the Law allowed and not allowed foods, and their representative typologyeat Biblically clean.
In my view, the 14th of Nisan always falls on the 3rd day of the week (this differs from todays Judaism)Key of David illustrations
There is no prophecy of the Messiah resurrecting (unless you mean the general resurrection of all the dead).One is mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. (i.e. Matthew 22:29) (i.e. Open Heart says - " ...when we in fact know that Jesus cannot possibly be the messiah since he did not fulfill the prophecies")
When, in fact, I know that Jesus is Messiah (Matthew 16:16), and that Jesus is a True Prophet fulfilling Messianic prophecies - including, but not limited to - Messiah's Resurrection prophecies. (i.e. Reference: Key of David illustrations)
Of course...I do it all the time. But I still don't eat pork, shellfish, etc. My family and friends know I don't eat these things. If they don't have food I can eat, I just eat vegetables."Foods that may be consumed according to halakha (Jewish law) are termed kosher (/ˈkoʊʃər/) in English, from the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the Hebrew term kashér (כָּשֵׁר), meaning "fit" (in this context, fit for consumption)." - Wikipedia
I view this ("kosher") just as meaning "acceptable" or "not acceptable"
and yeah, a lot of ritual was over time added around that
It set Israelites apart from the gentles, as did the whole Law in general
IMV to keep gentiles apart from the promises of blessings...for a time
(they would eventually get blessed by being brought near, thru Messiah, but separation was ended in some significant way)
I think you are grafted in
would you go into a not set apart in your way person's house and eat with them?
there might be some
and if someone wants to use the Mosaic law as a guide on things, they are free to do so
there is some stuff in the Scrolls about the Law allowed and not allowed foods, and their representative typology
When Christianity first started, it was a Jewish sect, the Nozrim or Nazarenes. But that is not what it stayed. Two factors made Christianity into a Gentile faith by the second century.
gentiles are gentiles, Jews are Jews
both can have a Jewish faith by believing and trusting the Jewish Messiah/the correct New Testament
so you didn't actually watch the video...(?)When