The OT--and tithing

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Can you show us in the Bible where Jesus or the apostles commanded tithing,

Malachi 3:8-10---King James Version
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Malachi 3:8-10---King James Version
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

How is that a "command for tithing"?

Do Mormons now give meat to their bishops?!

And are you claiming the requirement to obey all the 613 mitzvah of the OT?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Malachi 3:8-10---King James Version
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Where in the NT did Jesus or the Apostles COMMAND TITHING? And command the OTHER things I listed?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Bonnie said: Can you show us in the Bible where Jesus or the apostles commanded tithing,

dberrie2020 said:Malachi 3:7-10---King James Version

7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Where in the NT did Jesus or the Apostles COMMAND TITHING? And command the OTHER things I listed?

Nice back peddling, Bonnie.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Nice back peddling, Bonnie.


I already knew about the OT verses but since when did the apostles live in the OT? I asked about in the NT. You quoted the OT. Is the OT the NT? Is the church now in the old covenant or in the new covenant? How is asking about where the command is in the NT "backpedaling"?

Now, where is the command in the NT to tithe to the church? And the other things I listed? Care to show me?
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
I already knew about the OT verses but since when did the apostles live in the OT? I asked about in the NT. You quoted the OT.

Nope--you asked about "in the Bible"--and I quoted you Malachi 3:

Bonnie said: Can you show us in the Bible where Jesus or the apostles commanded tithing,

That was your quote? You then back peddled to the NT.

Is the OT the NT?

You didn't specify NT or OT--but the Bible:

Bonnie said: Can you show us in the Bible where Jesus or the apostles commanded tithing,

How is asking about where the command is in the NT "backpedaling"?

Now, where is the command in the NT to tithe to the church?

So--when did God change, Bonnie?

Malachi 3:6-10---King James Version
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Nope--you asked about "in the Bible"--and I quoted you Malachi 3:

Yes, and Malachi 3 is about "tithing" MEAT.

Can you please tell us what your average "tithe" of MEAT is every month?

How many Mormons do you know who "tithe" in MEAT?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Nope--you asked about "in the Bible"--and I quoted you Malachi 3:



That was your quote? You then back peddled to the NT.



You didn't specify NT or OT--but the Bible:





So--when did God change, Bonnie?

Malachi 3:6-10---King James Version
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
God doesn't change--but are we in the OLD covenant or the NEW Covenant now? God enacted a NEW and BETTER covenant than the LoM--didn't He? Ever read Jeremiah 31:31-34? Where God said He would make a NEW covenant with Israel and Judah--and He said it would NOT be like the one He made with them in the wilderness? NOT LIKE? What does that mean? Hebrews explains it quite well, doesn't it? But Mormons ignore it, don't they?

So. God does not change, but His covenant DID--He fulfilled the LoM in Jesus Christ and enacted a NEW and BETTER covenant in Jesus' blood--didn't He?

But why doesn't your church follow the OTHER LoM regulations? Why doesn't it follow the kosher food laws? The clean/ unclean laws? Does your church consider menstruating women unclean? Do they separate themselves from everyone during this time? No? WHY NOT?

I think I know why your church does not follow these other NT laws--it cannot make money off its membership with them, can it?

Now can you show me in the NEW testament where church members are COMMANDED to tithe, and do all the other things I mentioned?
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
God doesn't change--but are we in the OLD covenant or the NEW Covenant now? God enacted a NEW and BETTER covenant than the LoM--didn't He?

That's a problematic claim, IMO. This is the reason why:

Tithing started with Abraham--under the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's the reason Malachi pointed to the fathers:

Malachi 3:6-10---King James Version
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Tithing didn't start with the Mosaic Law--but the gospel. That's the reason it was taught as a RETURN to paying tithing.

And that is the reason tithing can remain--when the Mosaic Law was fulfilled--because it was instituted under the gospel--before the Mosaic Law was added to the gospel.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
No, let's start with Jeremiah 31:

Hebrews quotes these verses, doesn't it? In showing that we are in the NEW and BETTER covenant in Jesus' blood, and not in the blood of bulls and goats.

How are you relating the blood of bulls and goats with tithing?

So, the first covenant, the Law of Moses one, is OBSOLETE--isn't it, dberrie?

Tithing didn't enter with the Law of Moses--it entered in through the gospel Abraham had.

Malachi 3:6-10---King James Version
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

It came in through "father Abraham".

So, why don't you answer my question about why your church doesn't follow the OTHER OT LoM laws--like the kosher food laws? Still eat pork and shellfish? Or the clean/unclean laws--like the ones regarding women during their menstrual cycle? Why doesn't your church observe THOSE laws?

Because that was fulfilled and passed away:

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.


Answer--your church cannot make money on THOSE old laws--can it?

Considering the OT law has three different tithes--why not?

Now, can you show us from the NEW TESTAMENT where church members were COMMANDED to tithe to the church? COMMANDED? And where they were COMMANDED to do all of the other things I mentioned?

Malachi 3:6-10---King James Version
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Again--when did God change?--if that was part of the gospel in the OT--then it remains in the NT.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
How are you relating the blood of bulls and goats with tithing?



Tithing didn't enter with the Law of Moses--it entered in through the gospel Abraham had.

Malachi 3:6-10---King James Version
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

It came in through "father Abraham".



Because that was fulfilled and passed away:

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.




Considering the OT law has three different tithes--why not?



Malachi 3:6-10---King James Version
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Again--when did God change?--if that was part of the gospel in the OT--then it remains in the NT.
Refusing to see the obvious? The OT Law of Moses isn't the "gospel"--is it? Isn't that why it was called the LAW of Moses?

Tithing was an OLD testament LAW, from the LoM....don't you know that? To support the OT priesthood, which had no land inheritance...right? But the OT priesthoods are null and void, fulfilled in Christ Jesus....remember? Have you never read Hebrews? And now ALL believers are a royal priesthood with Jesus Christ as our great High priest--have you forgotten?

Why doesn't your church follow the OTHER OT laws? Like keeping kosher, and the clean/ unclean laws...can't rake in money for those, can it?

NOW--can you show me from the NEW Testament church the command to tithe, along with the other Mormon works I mentioned?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Refusing to see the obvious? The OT Law of Moses isn't the "gospel"--is it?

No--so why are you bringing that in?

Again--tithing was introduced through Abraham--which lived 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law.

Abraham lived under the gospel, not the Mosaic Law.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
No--so why are you bringing that in?

Again--tithing was introduced through Abraham--which lived 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law.

Abraham lived under the gospel, not the Mosaic Law.
Because the law of tithing was part of the Law of Moses--is the NT church under the Law of Moses, in the OLD covenant?

And show me in Genesis where God COMMANDED Abe to tithe to Melchizedek...where did He do so? It was a one-time deal, wasn't it, since Abe gave 1/10 of the spoils from his battle with those kings.

Genesis 14:
18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,

“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.
20 And praise be to God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”

Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

Seems to me, he did it of his own free will--didn't he? I don't see a COMMAND FROM GOD to give Melchizedek 1/10 of the spoils from battle--do you?

Now--where in the NT church did either Jesus or the apostles COMMAND people in the church to tithe? Also, where is there a command in the NT church to build temples all over the world, perform the Endowment ceremony in them, drastically alter the Creation and Fall into sin stories from Genesis in the ceremony, make "secret' handshakes and tokens, get married and have those marriages sealed in those temples; not drink coffee, tea, or anything with alcohol in it....? WHERE? IN the NT church?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
The "Mosaic Law"--as what was added to the gospel--no. The Mosaic Law--as it was lived in it's entirety by the Jews--yes.

One has to remember--the "Mosaic Law" were the rituals, etc.--plus the gospel, as the "Mosaic Law" was added to the gospel:

Galatians 3:18-19---King James Version
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What was "added"? The rituals, etc. to form what was known as the "Mosaic Law".

What was it "added" to? The gospel--which was present 400 years prior to the Law of Moses.

The commandments fit that mold also--as Abraham had the commandments 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law--which became part of the Mosaic Law when the Law was added to the gospel:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Which is the reason why, when Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law--and it passed away--the commandments remained--because it was part of the gospel, before the Mosaic Law was added.

<<snip>>
you are doing a GREAT JOB of demonstrating Mormon debate tactic no. 2 in my signature--aren't you, dberrie? Because we are NOT discussing Matthew 19, so you must be getting desperate here, aren't you? But what a talented "quoter" you are, dberrie--truncating what the rest of the chapter says! Here it is, in full:

NASB--

Faith Brings Righteousness​

3 [a]You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of [b]the Law, or by [c]hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun [d]by the Spirit, are you now [e]being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you [f]suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works [g]miracles among you, do it by the works of [h]the Law, or by [i]hearing with faith?

6 [j]Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, [k]be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God [l]would justify the [m]Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with [n]Abraham, the believer.

10 For as many as are of the works of [o]the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” 11 Now that no one is justified [p]by [q]the Law before God is evident; for, “[r]The righteous man shall live by faith.” 12 [s]However, the Law is not [t]of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live [u]by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a [v]tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might [w]come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Intent of the Law​

15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
[/QUOTE]
Now, my questions:
Now when are you going to answer my questions: Did God COMMAND Abe to give Mel a tenth of the spoils of battle, yes or no?

Where in the NT church is anyone COMMANDED to tithe to the church? Where was anyone COMMANDED to do all of those Mormon temple works, in order to be saved to heaven?
Oh and HOW was Abe able to obey God's commands and listen to His voice? What does Hebrews 11 say?

NASB--By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

BY WHAT did Abe obey God?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Bonnie said:
Because the law of tithing was part of the Law of Moses--is the NT church under the Law of Moses, in the OLD covenant?

The "Mosaic Law"--as what was added to the gospel--no. The Mosaic Law--as it was lived in it's entirety by the Jews--yes, as to the part which is gospel.

One has to remember--the "Mosaic Law" were the rituals, etc.--plus the gospel, as the "Mosaic Law" was added to the gospel:

Galatians 3:18-19---King James Version
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What was "added"? The rituals, etc. to form what was known as the "Mosaic Law".

What was it "added" to? The gospel--which was present 400 years prior to the Law of Moses.

The commandments fit that mold also--as Abraham had the commandments 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law--which became part of the Mosaic Law when the Law was added to the gospel:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Which is the reason why, when Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law--and it passed away--the commandments remained--because it was part of the gospel, before the Mosaic Law was added.

And, it's the reason the Savior could connect keeping the commandments with eternal life, minus the rituals of the Mosaic Law:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So--why wouldn't tithing--which was also practiced by Abraham, before the Mosaic Law--remain also--as it was part of the gospel--before the Mosaic Law was added?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
you are doing a GREAT JOB of demonstrating Mormon debate tactic no. 2 in my signature--aren't you, dberrie? Because we are NOT discussing Matthew 19, so you must be getting desperate here, aren't you?

Taint so!! retorts are neither convincing nor compelling.

When you get ready to answer the post--please let us know:

The "Mosaic Law"--as what was added to the gospel--no. The Mosaic Law--as it was lived in it's entirety by the Jews--yes, as it relates to the gospel.

One has to remember--the "Mosaic Law" were the rituals, etc.--plus the gospel, as the "Mosaic Law" was added to the gospel:

Galatians 3:18-19---King James Version
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What was "added"? The rituals, etc. to form what was known as the "Mosaic Law".

What was it "added" to? The gospel--which was present 400 years prior to the Law of Moses.

The commandments fit that mold also--as Abraham had the commandments 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law--which became part of the Mosaic Law when the Law was added to the gospel:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Which is the reason why, when Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law--and it passed away--the commandments remained--because it was part of the gospel, before the Mosaic Law was added.

And, it's the reason the Savior could connect keeping the commandments with eternal life, minus the rituals of the Mosaic Law:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So--why wouldn't tithing--which was also practiced by Abraham, before the Mosaic Law--remain also--as it was part of the gospel--before the Mosaic Law was added also?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Taint so!! retorts are neither convincing nor compelling.

When you get ready to answer the post--please let us know:

The "Mosaic Law"--as what was added to the gospel--no. The Mosaic Law--as it was lived in it's entirety by the Jews--yes, as it relates to the gospel.

One has to remember--the "Mosaic Law" were the rituals, etc.--plus the gospel, as the "Mosaic Law" was added to the gospel:

Galatians 3:18-19---King James Version
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What was "added"? The rituals, etc. to form what was known as the "Mosaic Law".

What was it "added" to? The gospel--which was present 400 years prior to the Law of Moses.

The commandments fit that mold also--as Abraham had the commandments 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law--which became part of the Mosaic Law when the Law was added to the gospel:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Which is the reason why, when Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law--and it passed away--the commandments remained--because it was part of the gospel, before the Mosaic Law was added.

And, it's the reason the Savior could connect keeping the commandments with eternal life, minus the rituals of the Mosaic Law:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So--why wouldn't tithing--which was also practiced by Abraham, before the Mosaic Law--remain also--as it was part of the gospel--before the Mosaic Law was added also?
Then why do YOU keep using "taint so!" arguments with us?

Already dealt with these verses numerous times, haven't I, dberrie? My response will not change:

There are only TWO ways to be justified and declared righteous in God's eyes, dberrie. The first is by keeping God's commandments perfectly all the time, never stumbling in even one point, for as long as one lives. That is what Jesus was telling the rich young ruler. But He demonstrated to him that he didn't even keep the first and most important commandment--loving God above all else. The young man loved his wealth more--he broke the first commandment and therefore, broke ALL of them.

BUT--there is a SECOND way to be justified and declared righteous in God's eyes. Do YOU know that way, dberrie?
  • We can depend upon our OWN IMperfect keeping of God's commandments--because you seem to think that is what Jesus wants us to do: keep God's commandments perfectly in order to be saved--or depending upon Jesus' perfect keeping of the commandments in our stead and for our sake? Which is more sure? More dependable? OUR imperfect obedience or JESUS' PERFECT obedience, which is then credited to us as righteousness, by grace through faith in HIM?
And

Romans 8--

Life Through the Spirit​

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

What does it mean when Paul writes that the "righteous requirements of the Law might be fully met in us who do not live according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit"?

Didn't Paul ALSO write in Romans 13:

8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

See anything in Romans 8 and 13 about the necessity of doing Mormon temple works and obeying Mormon rules and regulations in order to be saved to heaven?

When you get ready to answer MY questions correctly and honestly here, let me know: What did Jesus say actually saved the woman, in Luke 7:50? What was the exact word He used and did He add anything to it?

"Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace."

And according to Hebrews 11, BY WHAT did Abe obey God? Care to deal with the actual Bible verses for both of these questions?
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
Already dealt with these verses numerous times, haven't I, dberrie?
No. But when you get ready to address my retort--here it is:

The "Mosaic Law"--as what was added to the gospel--no. The Mosaic Law--as it was lived in it's entirety by the Jews--yes, as it relates to the gospel.

One has to remember--the "Mosaic Law" were the rituals, etc.--plus the gospel, as the "Mosaic Law" was added to the gospel:

Galatians 3:18-19---King James Version
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What was "added"? The rituals, etc. to form what was known as the "Mosaic Law".

What was it "added" to? The gospel--which was present 400 years prior to the Law of Moses.

The commandments fit that mold also--as Abraham had the commandments 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law--which became part of the Mosaic Law when the Law was added to the gospel:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Which is the reason why, when Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law--and it passed away--the commandments remained--because it was part of the gospel, before the Mosaic Law was added.

And, it's the reason the Savior could connect keeping the commandments with eternal life, minus the rituals of the Mosaic Law:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So--why wouldn't tithing--which was also practiced by Abraham, before the Mosaic Law--remain also--as it was part of the gospel--before the Mosaic Law was added also?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
No. But when you get ready to address my retort--here it is:

The "Mosaic Law"--as what was added to the gospel--no. The Mosaic Law--as it was lived in it's entirety by the Jews--yes, as it relates to the gospel.

One has to remember--the "Mosaic Law" were the rituals, etc.--plus the gospel, as the "Mosaic Law" was added to the gospel:

Galatians 3:18-19---King James Version
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What was "added"? The rituals, etc. to form what was known as the "Mosaic Law".

What was it "added" to? The gospel--which was present 400 years prior to the Law of Moses.

The commandments fit that mold also--as Abraham had the commandments 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law--which became part of the Mosaic Law when the Law was added to the gospel:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
<<snip>>
Can you show me where God COMMANDED Abe to give a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek? COMMANDED? Abe had been at war. That only happened this one time. So, where does the Biblical witness say God COMMANDED Abe to give a tenth? So that it became one of God's "laws" that Abe had to obey and everyone else, since then?

And can you show me in the NT church where the church members were COMMANDED to tithe to the church? COMMANDED?

We DO see this, from Paul:

The Collection for the Lord’s People​

16

nstructions and Greetings​

16 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2 On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come. 3 When I arrive, whomever you may approve, I will send them with letters to carry your gift to Jerusalem; 4 and if it is fitting for me to go also, they will go with me.
.

See any command here TO TITHE?

Now, you need to answer my two questions, don't you?

1. Where in Genesis did God actually COMMAND Abe to tithe his spoils to Melchizedek?
2. Where in the NT church is there a COMMAND to tithe to the church?
 
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