The papacy seems affected by politics

Southsider071

Well-known member
Pope Francis is being politically pressured by the European Union, the United Nations and other political forces in his moves toward removing sodomy from the official list of sins in the RCC.

To what degree is this different or the same as Clement VII decision not to get on the bad side of Spain and the Holy Roman Emperor, in his decision to deny Henry VIII his annulment?

To what degree do political considerations affect the official dogmatic decisions of the RCC?
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Pope Francis is being politically pressured by the European Union, the United Nations and other political forces in his moves toward removing sodomy from the official list of sins in the RCC.

To what degree is this different or the same as Clement VII decision not to get on the bad side of Spain and the Holy Roman Emperor, in his decision to deny Henry VIII his annulment?

To what degree do political considerations affect the official dogmatic decisions of the RCC?
Of course the papacy is politically pressured! Where have you been? The papacy was politically pressured from 33AD when Jesus ascended and Peter and the apostles began preaching!

Church and state have always been at odds and will be at odds until Christ comes again!

What else is new?

To what degree do political considerations affect the official dogmatic decisions of the RCC? If you mean the official teachings----not much. If you mean the pastoral practice of the Church? Greatly.

Pastorally, for example, the bishops today will issue soft, nebulous, convoluted, circuitous statements about Catholic Moral Teaching, but when it comes to Catholic Social Teaching, the same bishops are not at all afraid to speak clearly and unequivocally. That is becasue they know they have a sympathetic audience on Catholic Social Teaching, but not Catholic Moral Teaching.

Thus, when it comes to official teaching, politics cannot affect it--since the Church is protected by the Holy Spirit. When it comes to pastoral practice on the other hand--politics greatly affects things. Look at Pope Francis removing Bishop Strickland for not being woke enough--while allowing the German bishops to flout the authority of the pope over gay blessings.
 

Atemi

Well-known member
Thus, when it comes to official teaching, politics cannot affect it--since the Church is protected by the Holy Spirit. When it comes to pastoral practice on the other hand--politics greatly affects things.

So if your Pope and Masters start blessing gay unions, will that be "official teaching" or will that be just "pastoral practice"?
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
So if your Pope and Masters start blessing gay unions, will that be "official teaching" or will that be just "pastoral practice"?
What about the ones that won't bless a gay union? Will they be booted like Strickland? Even since catholicism is theologically wrong, the libs always hate the conservatives regardless of their internal errors.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
So if your Pope and Masters start blessing gay unions, will that be "official teaching" or will that be just "pastoral practice"?
So, the shepherds hirelings are petting the wolves, and starting to take care of them. "Here, Fenrir, like a nice little Lamb Chop?"

And what do you think will happen after the sheep are all gone? Those "clothed in soft clothes" who are "in kings' houses", [Matt. 11:8] will still say, "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing," [Rev 3:17] until their supposed supporters "shall make [the hirelings] desolate and naked, and shall eat [their] flesh, and burn [them] with fire." [Rev 17:16]
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Pope Francis is being politically pressured by the European Union, the United Nations and other political forces in his moves toward removing sodomy from the official list of sins in the RCC.

To what degree is this different or the same as Clement VII decision not to get on the bad side of Spain and the Holy Roman Emperor, in his decision to deny Henry VIII his annulment?

To what degree do political considerations affect the official dogmatic decisions of the RCC?
The "Roman Catholic religious system" HAS ALWAYS BEEN AFFECTED/controlled by politics throughout it's history. While claiming to be the "One True Church of Jesus Christ", it shows NO EVIDENCE of actually being anything like that. It's "just another" corrupt institution of man.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
So if your Pope and Masters start blessing gay unions, will that be "official teaching" or will that be just "pastoral practice"?
That will be outright heresy. As I have maintained on this website---if that happened, the Church would schism. There would be people calling for the removal of the pope.
 

Atemi

Well-known member
So if your Pope and Masters start blessing gay unions, will that be "official teaching" or will that be just "pastoral practice"?
That will be outright heresy.

It is Catholic doctrine that the Pope and your Masters cannot teach outright heresy.

Why don't you believe in Catholicism, since you work so hard to sell it to us here?
 

Southsider071

Well-known member
That will be outright heresy. As I have maintained on this website---if that happened, the Church would schism. There would be people calling for the removal of the pope.

Who would remove a pope from power? The Cardinals , Bishops and Monsignors?

Those folks are all papal appointments, I don't see how you could get those many people to turn against their patron who gave them the opportunity in the first place. BTW, Frank has been true to his liberal and socialist background since he put his hand on the Catholic missal and took the oath of office. It isn't like he is throwing anyone a curve ball here in his dogmatic declarations.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Who would remove a pope from power? The Cardinals , Bishops and Monsignors?
That is a great question. No one knows--as there is no historical precedent for such a thing. The closest precedent in history is the Western Schism, but there the popes were not forcibly removed. Two resigned, one lost support.
Those folks are all papal appointments, I don't see how you could get those many people to turn against their patron who gave them the opportunity in the first place. BTW, Frank has been true to his liberal and socialist background since he put his hand on the Catholic missal and took the oath of office. It isn't like he is throwing anyone a curve ball here in his dogmatic declarations.
Pope Francis has largely been a disaster for the Church as pope. However, the pope has not as of yet formally taught heresy or attempted to bind the Church to heresy.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Wasn't it you who said there is no mechanism for the removal of the pope?
Yes. There is currently (currently being the key word) no known formal mechanism for either trying the pope for heresy or removing him.
So if people call for his removal, so what? What is actually going to happen? Nothing. Your stuck with him.
That is a great question. No one knows. However, throughout history as situations arise the Church has always figured out something. That would happen here.
 

Grace

Well-known member
That is a great question. No one knows--as there is no historical precedent for such a thing. The closest precedent in history is the Western Schism, but there the popes were not forcibly removed. Two resigned, one lost support.

Pope Francis has largely been a disaster for the Church as pope. However, the pope has not as of yet formally taught heresy or attempted to bind the Church to heresy.
Well, murder has worked in the past.
 

leonard03782

Well-known member
Does anyone her believe that Francis is appointing men like JPII or Benedict to the college of Cardinals? I don't. I believe he is appointing people with his own mindset and the odds are very good that the rcc will have a Francis 2.0 when the time comes to replace him. And, it will continue to go down hill from there. What will the rcc do?
 

Atemi

Well-known member
There is currently (currently being the key word) no known formal mechanism for either trying the pope for heresy or removing him.

You keep rejecting official Catholic teaching with your posts.

Vatican I makes it abundantly clear that NO sentence of your pope can be corrected in any way....as your sect teaches that there is NO higher authority on earth. Not even a council in Catholicism can nullify the sentence of your pope.

You Catholics keep coming here self righteously preaching how your religion is true....but not even you believe it. What a sad fraud of a life.
 

Atemi

Well-known member
Does anyone her believe that Francis is appointing men like JPII or Benedict to the college of Cardinals? I don't. I believe he is appointing people with his own mindset and the odds are very good that the rcc will have a Francis 2.0 when the time comes to replace him. And, it will continue to go down hill from there. What will the rcc do?

That is exactly how the Roman Catholic political system works.

They put on the act like their choices are totally organic and driven by the Holy Spirit, when instead it is just the cronies getting placed into positions of influence.
 
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