The parable of the talents

brotherofJared

Well-known member
The talents represent monetary value and are distibuted according to ability (Matthew 25:15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their talents with the bankers (verse 27) but the third servant buried his talent in the ground (verse 25). The third servant had been given a talent according to his ability and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but chose to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked" and "lazy" and an "unprofitable" servant (Matthew 25:26-30) who is "cast out into outer darkness," certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who produce no results at all were not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as "reaping and gathering what he had no right to claim as his own." This wicked so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved.

The children of Israel were called "servants" but they were not all saved. Leviticus 25:55 - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt. *Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, (the Israelites) but later destroyed those who did not believe.

Nehemiah 1:6 - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned.

Isaiah 43:10 - “You (Israel vs. 1) are My witnesses,” says the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen..
This looks to me like you're trying to justify your beliefs. All of these servants are the Lord's disciples, including the man who had just one talent. If the man going on a journey (14), is the Lord, it says "he called his servants". If they were "His servants" then they were his disciples and they all believed they were saved. Sadly, one of them chose not to use the talent his Lord gave him and because he didn't work (use the talent, even if it was no more than putting in the bank [there is no indication that that's what the others did with their talents - talk about supposition]), he was cast out.

See how simple that explanation was? It appears that you draw conclusions out of thin air to support your theology instead of using what's actually there. That parable indicates that believers who don't do what they believe, but instead sit on what they've been given and do nothing, will be cast out into outer darkness. Salvation is works based.

The simplest explanation is usually the best explanation.
 

Cisco Qid

Active member
I believe there is an important point you might be overlooking:

Matthew 25:14-30--King James Version
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


IOW--even though the gifts came from the Lord--the servants were still held accountable for what they did with those gifts, and that for "the joy of thy lord", or--"outer darkness"--something called judgment according to works.

Aaron--those works come from each individual, and each are judged according to their works-- and that for life or damnation--as to those works. IOW--God grants His saving grace unto life--to them which obey Him.

Please do note those who did well with the gifts--were called "faithful".
Let me offer up this perspective. Note, that the servant with one talent "digged in the earth" and buried the talent. In Genesis, the ground was cursed because of Adam's sin and to which he was destined to work and toil all the days of his life and digging the ground represents works. This is also illustrated by the Lord accepting Abel's blood offering who did no work but simply herded sheep and allowed them to graze off the land. While Cain offered up the sweat toil of his work but was rejected. Consider also the Lord's remedy for this one talent servant, "put my money to the exchangers" and allow the money to earn interest which also does not involve work. The interest here represents free grace and those who are saved by the free gift of God through Jesus Christ. In Romans 10:8

“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

The Lord desires a Father son/daughter relationship just as he had with Adam before the fall. If you look at the 10 commandments, you will note He does not have a commandment to worship Him as a God but rather that you shall not worship bow down and server other gods.

Exodus 20:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
 
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MMDAN

Active member
This looks to me like you're trying to justify your beliefs. All of these servants are the Lord's disciples, including the man who had just one talent. If the man going on a journey (14), is the Lord, it says "he called his servants". If they were "His servants" then they were his disciples and they all believed they were saved. Sadly, one of them chose not to use the talent his Lord gave him and because he didn't work (use the talent, even if it was no more than putting in the bank [there is no indication that that's what the others did with their talents - talk about supposition]), he was cast out.

See how simple that explanation was? It appears that you draw conclusions out of thin air to support your theology instead of using what's actually there. That parable indicates that believers who don't do what they believe, but instead sit on what they've been given and do nothing, will be cast out into outer darkness. Salvation is works based.

The simplest explanation is usually the best explanation.
That salvation is 'works based' sums up the very heart of your error here. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) After thoroughly reading this parable in context and properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine, my explanation still stands. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to accept.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Let me offer up this perspective. Note, that the servant with one talent "digged in the earth" and buried the talent. In Genesis, the ground was cursed because of Adam's sin and to which he was destined to work and toil all the days of his life and digging the ground represents works. This is also illustrated by the Lord accepting Abel's blood offering who did no work but simply herded sheep and allowed them to graze off the land. While Cain offered up the sweat toil of his work but was rejected. Consider also the Lord's remedy for this one talent servant, "put my money to the exchangers" and allow the money to earn interest which also does not involve work. The interest here represents free grace and those who are saved by the free gift of God through Jesus Christ. In Romans 10:8

Morning, Cisco.

I'm not seeing how any of that undermines the fact all the servants were judged according to what they had done with the gifts--and that for "the joy of thy lord" --or--"outer darkness". That defies faith alone theology.

11 For the Scripture says “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Luke 6:46---King James Version
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
That salvation is 'works based' sums up the very heart of your error here. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) After thoroughly reading this parable in context and properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine, my explanation still stands. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to accept.

I believe what's hard for the faith alone to understand is God extending His grace to them which obey Him--as to the personal reception of eternal life:

Matthew 7:19-21--King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Is that an example of "works based" salvation?

So--when you state "That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works"--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Could you explain for us how one could avoid Paul's condemnation there--without obeying the commandments?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
No, it doesn’t.

The thief on the cross had faith and couldn’t do works. He was saved. When people bragged about all their works to Christ, He said he didn’t know them.

Mag--there was a reason why:

Matthew 7:22-28---King James Version
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

Obviously--they were liars. They didn't do the works of Christ--but of satan.

Please do read the testimony of Christ--"and doeth them"--as those who are founded upon the Rock.

When He healed people, He said “Your faith has made you whole.” You follow Him because of faith. You want to be like Him because of faith.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

When you reference "faith" here--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

John 3:16-21---King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I believe faith is trust. If we honestly believe it, works follow.

I wouldn't argue that, only there is more to that than would include faith alone theology:

John 3:16-21---King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 

MMDAN

Active member
I believe what's hard for the faith alone to understand is God extending His grace to them which obey Him--as to the personal reception of eternal life:

Matthew 7:19-21--King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Is that an example of "works based" salvation?

So--when you state "That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works"--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Could you explain for us how one could avoid Paul's condemnation there--without obeying the commandments?
Obeying a false religion that teaches salvation by works is not obeying Christ.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

*John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Salvation by grace through faith, NOT works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is crystal clear, yet all you understand is salvation through faith AND works and there is a reason for that.

In regards to 1 Corinthians 6:9, notice that Paul says it's the unrighteous (not the righteous) who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith all of these sins which are practiced by the unrighteous still stand against them and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ (in contrast with those who were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God - 1 Corinthians 6:11). That is descriptive of the righteous.

In Galatians 5:21, we see a similar list of sins and Paul goes on to say that those who practice such sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. In 1 John 3:9, we read that no one who is born of God practices sin.. It's imperative that we properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

Where does the Bible say that we are saved by grace through obeying the commandments? Only Jesus Christ has flawlessly obeyed the commandments and is without sin. (Hebrews 4:15) Everyone else has sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) None of us have flawlessly obeyed the commandments, so that is not the means of obtaining salvation, yet we know that we have come to know Him/already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. (1 John 2:3)
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Hopefully, but that's probably not going to happen.
Why? If I state my beliefs or intentions you're just going to tell me I'm wrong and what I'm REALLY doing. So, go on, keep going. Clearly, inasmuch as you simply make crap up as you go along, just so that I can be wrong, you don't need to me to contribute.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
LOL. That was my point.
Wow! Fancy that. We agree.
Any further discussion is just splitting hairs.
But you don't give a hoot about what's true, or false, you just want something to argue about, and make me the loser.
Just because you believe something doesn't make it true. No matter how "honest" you believe it.
Since "honesty" isn't considered a value in religious discussion, I can only conclude you believe testimony meetings are pretty much worthless, and what we really need is someone dictating to us what our beliefs are.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
I wouldn't argue that, only there is more to that than would include faith alone theology:

John 3:16-21---King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
If that's true, what part of faith alone theology proclaims loving darkness more than light is acceptable, and disobedience is ordained of God? Please cite your sources.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
If that's true, what part of faith alone theology proclaims loving darkness more than light is acceptable, and disobedience is ordained of God? Please cite your sources.

I've never claimed any such thing. Nor have I claimed the faith alone preach one should dive into a pool which has no water in it. Nor hunt elephants with water pistols.

Please stick with my concern, IE--the faith alone claim one is saved unto eternal life--excluding all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.

Again--the testimony of the scriptures captures more attention than what is garnered in faith alone theology, or your claim that works follow faith:

John 3:16-21---King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Mag--there was a reason why:

Matthew 7:22-28---King James Version
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

Obviously--they were liars. They didn't do the works of Christ--but of satan.

Please do read the testimony of Christ--"and doeth them"--as those who are founded upon the Rock.



When you reference "faith" here--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

John 3:16-21---King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
What did you not understand about the words “you follow Him?” That means walking in the light, treating people with compassion. That’s what comes from faith and a changed heart. Faith comes first. Whosoever believeth in Him will have everlasting life. When you truly believe, your heart is changed and your actions naturally follow.

Why are you so worried about who is not obeying? And which “deeds” do you think we’re committing? Not being Mormon?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Obeying a false religion that teaches salvation by works is not obeying Christ.

Teaching acts of obedience to Jesus Christ isn't necessary for eternal life to occur in one--is a false religion:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

*John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Are you claiming this isn't the Father's will--or belief in Christ?:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in

Salvation by grace through faith, NOT works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is crystal clear, yet all you understand is salvation through faith AND works and there is a reason for that.

Again--when you reference "faith" there--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

In regards to 1 Corinthians 6:9, notice that Paul says it's the unrighteous (not the righteous) who will not inherit the kingdom of God.And the works identify them Apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith all of these sins which are practiced by the unrighteous still stand against them and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ (in contrast with those who were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God - 1 Corinthians 6:11). That is descriptive of the righteous.
In Galatians 5:21, we see a similar list of sins and Paul goes on to say that those who practice such sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. In 1 John 3:9, we read that no one who is born of God practices sin.. It's imperative that we properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

That only connects works with the kingdom of God.

Where does the Bible say that we are saved by grace through obeying the commandments?

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Only Jesus Christ has flawlessly obeyed the commandments and is without sin. (Hebrews 4:15) Everyone else has sinned and come short of the glory of God.

That's the reason God grants His salvational grace to them which are willing to repent and be baptized:

Acts 2:38--King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


(Romans 3:23) None of us have flawlessly obeyed the commandments, so that is not the means of obtaining salvation, yet we know that we have come to know Him/already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. (1 John 2:3)

As to your "come to know Him"---

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
What did you not understand about the words “you follow Him?” That means walking in the light, treating people with compassion. That’s what comes from faith and a changed heart. Faith comes first. Whosoever believeth in Him will have everlasting life. When you truly believe, your heart is changed and your actions naturally follow.

And judgement follows according to those actions:

John 5:28-29---King James Version

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Why are you so worried about who is not obeying? And which “deeds” do you think we’re committing? Not being Mormon?

My concerns have nothing to do with being LDS, or what you or anyone else does, or does not do. I'm not sure where you get that from.

Again--my concern is faith alone theology which the critics push here--which states one obtains eternal life--excluding all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.

Please stick to that point when addressing my concerns.
 

Cisco Qid

Active member
Morning, Cisco.

I'm not seeing how any of that undermines the fact all the servants were judged according to what they had done with the gifts--and that for "the joy of thy lord" --or--"outer darkness". That defies faith alone theology.



Luke 6:46---King James Version
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
By using the Lord's remedy and accepting the free grace you are doing what He says. Good works are no long efforts to get into heaven which are fruitless and self righteous works but rather are works from the heart where the heart represents the center of your desires and are of your nature. By following your desires which are in-line with God's will you are no longer attempting to work your way to heaven. And your works are acceptable to God - just as God chose Abel's gift over Cain's which involved great labor. Jesus has already done the work for us and we merely have to accept Jesus and allow Him to change your heart. You can do this by simply asking Him to come in.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
And judgement follows according to those actions:

John 5:28-29---King James Version

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



My concerns have nothing to do with being LDS, or what you or anyone else does, or does not do. I'm not sure where you get that from.

Again--my concern is faith alone theology which the critics push here--which states one obtains eternal life--excluding all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.

Please stick to that point when addressing my concerns.
That’s just not true, and you continue to push that lie. There is no integrity in what you post.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Please stick with my concern, IE--the faith alone claim one is saved unto eternal life--excluding all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.
Ok. Please substantiate your concern by showing me anywhere in the scriptures all acts of obedience MUST be unto eternal life to fit your paradigm

If we ultimately agreed we are saved by grace and not by works, and a living faith requires obedience, why is this even an issue? What's the difference in obedience out love for God, or obedience unto eternal life?

This is a requirement you've added. It's a rediculous concern.
Again--the testimony of the scriptures captures more attention than what is garnered in faith alone theology, or your claim that works follow faith:

John 3:16-21---King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Why bold "loving darkness rather than light", and "deeds were evil"? What point are you trying to convey.
When we accept Jesus, and receive the Holy Ghost we have come into the light. I don't see how this is relevant to your concern unless you believe faith alone adherents don't have a living faith, which they've repeatedly told you they do.
 
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